posted
I guess I meant "before you were sick or felt sick" when everything was "normal".
-------------------- abbyjo Posts: 257 | From Southern CA. | Registered: Jun 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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I remember . . . something . . . .
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Sorry, AbbyJo.
Some researchers say "yes" it can be transmitted with intimate contact. And many couples have it together. It is hard to say if both were bitten by ticks, etc. but the important thing is :
Since you both have lyme, are you both being treated?
Good luck. I hope you both find what you need.
-
[ 02-11-2009, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
sex; those were the days and nights! well, i can dream of those fond years of memories!!
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posted
I dont believe it can be transmitted sexually -- but my doctor thinks its possible.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
SEX?....... Oh yea, sex. People with Lyme actually have sex? Am I missing something? HA!
It hasn't been proven that it can be transmitted sexually and my husband does not have it, even though I have been ill for 3 years; but I still say who knows for sure!
Some LLMDs say yes it can and some say no it can't. I lean toward no it can't. If couples have LD at the same time, it's likely because they were at the same places together with the ticks.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
It seems that Lyme can be transmitted at least sexually. Bioweaponeer and IDSA butcher Dattwyler recently called very discreetly for the development of a vaccine providing mucosal immunity (i.e. immunity in the lining of the body cavities) against Bb, and they've been modifying Borrelia to be capable of undergoing "atypical" means of transmission since before WWII.
posted
I think I understand your question to be who has had unprotected sex before the lyme diagnoses and what's the outcome of both play mates?
Let me think back......yes way back......I believe I was bitten by the tick about 6 months to a year before I met my husband.
I had mild symptoms that slowly increased for eight years. Besides the flu like symptoms that would never amount to anything, I thought they were just signs of aging in my late 20's.
8 years later within one week I became disabled.
We had been married for 6 years and 6 years after that. We never had unprotected sex. We had ALOT of it until it hit me so hard. Of course than it dwindled dramatically. To this day he is perfectly fine.
That's my experience with it. But who knows he may have it from me and it just hasn't hit him yet.
I have not heard of any proof that it can be sexually transmitted. Just one more thing that needs to be researched more.
Fancy
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I'm not sure if I believe it's sexually transmitted either. I'm still on the fence about that...
I think that most people who believe they gave their partner lyme didn't really... that the partner had it already, but just wasn't showing symptoms for awhile and then when they do start showing symptoms.... it's 'Oh, no, I gave him/her lyme!!!!'
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Have you used QUERCETIN?
Stinging Nettle is also very good for the lungs.
You can read more about both of those in an article search at www.vrp.com
- Upper right hand corner, pull the bar down from "products" to "articles."
sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Keebler, was this the thread you wanted to post that on?
I have been married 24 years, have had Lyme 35 years. My husband shows no symptoms and we don't use "protection."
That being said, I don't know if you can draw conclusions from that. Not everyone who gets exposed to Lyme gets sick from it. I don't know what I'd do if I hadn't been married so long by the time I was diagnosed.
My LLMD says it cannot be sexually transmitted. I was concerned that maybe my husband carried the Lyme but had not gotten sick and was worried he'd give it back to me. My LLMD said no.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I was diagnosed and undertreated 4 years ago. My symptoms came back a year ago and I've been on high doses of abx for 6 months and still going. Meanwhile, my wife is 100% asymptomatic, has been examined by my LLMD who confirmed this yet she tested Igenex (not CDC) positive for previous exposure to lyme. We did not practice safe sex until I started seeing my LLMD who recommended that we do so until I am well.
My (our?) LLMD says it is sexually transmitted. She has recommended that my wife go on 3 months of doxy just to be safe. We're getting a second opinion.
That's my deal.
Posts: 48 | From Baltimore, md | Registered: Jul 2008
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
My wife doesn't believe it. When I told her the possible biowarfare history of Lyme, she looked at me like I was a complete moron and said get off the Internet. She said it's an absurd notion.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
lymestop--unclear about what is implied by that. WOuld this mean that not even protection stops Lyme from being spread sexually?
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posted
Couple of quick notes. The doctors I speak with and I don't believe it is sexually transmitted.
1. Exposure does not equal infection. We are exposed to thousands of nasty things every day. Strep. Staph. E-coli is on everything. You probably have antibodies to bubonic plague right now! 2. with regards to...
14 out of 32 Lyme patients tested (44%) had Borrelia DNA nucleotide sequences in semen samples identified with PCR tests. 100% of those individuals with sexual partners, had partners test positive as well (Bach, 2001).
Aside from seeing my point in 1... if this is common, why are we not using it as a diagnostic? Why does it seems that PCR of blood is much less available than that of semen? It doesn't make sense. What kind of test was 100% positive? Was it the partners' blood? semen/vaginal fluid? I'll need the full data of how exactly this study was conducte, but I see an awful lot of reliance upon it without a clear understanding of its methodology and many unanswered questions.
3. I'm with sixgoofykids in that my partner of many years has shown no signs of ill health. There are many, many patients with sexual partners who are not infected. Also, when both partners are infected, its hard to rule out that it wasn't by normal insect vector, as partners tend to live in the same area and do things together.
4. What about even the most cursory of treatment for lyme? After all, we all know that it hides, puts up walls, and basically drops out of the bloodstream at any hint of danger. Why would it be able to survive in semen or vaginal fluid under these conditions? In theory, it would retreat and become undetectable. Thus I can hypothesize two outcomes - either basic antibiotic treatment renders lyme unable to be transmitted, or we hit a "gold mine" of diagnoses where we can pick up lyme relatively easily from a semen sample, assuming the above linked experiment is true.
Too many "Ifs" to be worried about. Lets stick with clear science as much as possible, and keep on investigating!
Posts: 691 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
My husband got bit and was in treatment for over a year. As soon as he got bit I did research on the internet and found this website, that is why he was on abx within a week of being bit. I was pregnant when he got bit and we abstained until way after the baby was born, we did not even kiss!! Once we thought he was in "remission" and was off abx, we started to have unprotected sex again. It took about a month but I started to feel terrible. I got babesia and lyme from him. I tested positive with Igenex and the lab in Florida for babesia, I forget the name. This all happened in 2001-2002. We both went on treatment for another year and are both back to our oldselves. We never have unprotected sex anymore, because I feel this will always stay in your body. We are not going to have any other children since we do not want this passed on to another person. All sad but true!
Posts: 101 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Jul 2003
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Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
Blackstone makes some excellent points. Why isn't semen and other bodily fluids being sent into the labs for potential diagnosis?
I have a difficult time understanding that babesia could be sexually transmitted. Wouldn't that be similar to malaria being sexually transmitted?
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
LOL Sex what's that? Not to mention if you are co infected with mycoplasma or chlamydia pneumonia that can be passed respiratorily . Should we use a condom on our faces. Not funny but true. I have also read that when animals are stressed they shed chlamydia much more rapidly. I don't know why it would not pertain to humans also. I think if we are in treatment it is stirred up and much more easily passed because of the stress of herxing.
Posts: 433 | From new york | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I did some research about this myself, and became convinced by what I read that sexual transmission is quite possible. Just one more thing to cause me great stress.
My Husband's LLMD said there have never been any proven studies done with animals to show that Lyme is sexualy transmitted, but she didn't say it was impossible.
She said if we were worried, to just use a condom! That advice did not do anything to calm my worries about possibly being exposed by my hubby...
However, even if I find out that I do have Lyme,(not sure about that one yet-getting further testing in the future, but feel fine at the moment)I have personally been bitten by a few ticks over the years we have lived here in NY State.
So I would never blame my hubby if I find out I actually have Lyme-it's epidemic in our area, and I would figure I got it from one of my previous bites.
We do practice safe sex now-but sex is rarely happening here anyway, as we are both constantly drained and tired from living and dealing with this disease every single day. Sex is at the bottom of our list right now-hubby's recovery is on top.
I hope what some of the other posters here are saying is true, that Lyme is not sexually transmitted. It makes me feel a bit better.
But until more studies are done about this, we all should probably be careful.
Posts: 64 | From rock tavern ,new york | Registered: Aug 2008
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disturbedme
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Member # 12346
posted
Yeah, I am pretty sure Babesia is NOT sexually transmitted. You know, most people are not sure about lyme being an STD and it's debated quite heatedly at times... but Babesia is a totally different story. It's not even a bacteria!
That's why I am saying... many lymies think they gave lyme and/or co-infections to their significant other or they gave it to you through sexual intercourse, when you or they already had it in their system but were asymptomatic up to a point/it being dormant. And then as soon as it comes out and you or significant other starts showing symptoms, the other one goes nuts and thinks they gave it to their partner through sex. I just don't think that's the way it works MOST of the time, if at all.
The majority of the population have lyme, around 80% according to some LLMDs, and I totally, totally agree. If you think about it, ticks are every where. You can get a tick bite just going outside in your front yard. I think the majority of people were bitten first while children playing in the grass and/or the woods, etc. Most kids, if not all, play in the grass/outside the majority of their childhood. So many of the 80% of population who carry the lyme/co's are asymptomatic/the lyme and co's are dormant... so we think these people are healthy when they really aren't.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
The few facts I have, and the few observations I've seen suggest sexual transmission is likely in "some" cases.
Regardless of the facts, when controversy strikes, and you have an illness as crippling and disconcerting as Lyme Disease (Plus the co-infection risk or diagnosis), you would be wise to use barrier protection during sexual intercourse.
There is great debate over all varieties of fluid exchange, including kissing -- though it is often ignored. Given the emotional trauma of such a possibility, most people are inclined to rail against that possibility through denial or ignoring it, never mind the use of protection for intercourse. Oral varieties of fluid exchange, are ignored because of this striking blow to physical intimacy.
I myself kiss my partner. I'm on heavy treatment however, and the likely hood of transmission is negligible because of that. However, untreated, the possibility is increased. There is also the subject of other infectious diseases that may be present contributing to further health decline, including viral reactivation, and other pathogens that can be transmitted.
In the end, risk/benefits ought be weighed. I practice safe sex, but kissing and touching remain. If I were not on heavy treatment, I would absolutely not risk exposing my partner even to kissing or any fluid exchange.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
i did my own research on this subject, double blind study i had sex with 50 woman with protection 50 without 50 just for the hell of it. the results were inconclusive. so will have to redo the study. will let you know when the second study completes. looking for woman without lyme for the second study lol docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
LOL @ DAVE. Absolutely objective research. Since it was double blind, it probably wasn't too difficult to find train wrecks with lazy eyes to participate. Sexy.... *lol*
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Thanks for the laugh Dave. Much needed. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
so dave, that's what you've been doing since you aren't around here!! always great for someone to lighten up the subjects around here! thanks for the laughs!! :)xox
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Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
I honestly believe it CAN be transmitted sexually so never have unprotected sex. So I use a boulder in front of the bedroom door!!!!!!!!
posted
I dont believe it can be transmitted sexually. Or, if it can, it is rare. I know some couples who believe they gave it to each other. But I think they also could have been bitten -- same pets, same back yard, same picnic, same hike -- married couples share a lot.
But I do see the evidence that it can be passed through the placenta.
What a mess the American medical community has made of Lyme Disease.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
second study done results still inconclusive. the double blind is two ties around 1 around my eyes and one around the subjects eyes.instead of the usual i tie around my eyes only.
evaluating the present data we get back is several days with the results or just start another study since this is such a fun study. this study looks promising so far, but i can promise any results.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I don't believe it can be transmitted sexually either. I had typical rash and other very typical symptoms afterwards. I ignored all those until 8 months later I had effusion in my knee. During the 8 months, I had many unproected sex with my spouse. He is fine.
When I recall, I think I got the tick bite in my front yard. Actually my husband had more risks getting tick bites than me becasue he mowed the lawn all the time. I recalled I ever asked why I always saw insects in the room. That was because he went right back in house after mowing.
I did not go outside much that year. That was only a few times that I stepped in the front yard that year and I got bitten. And I was ignorant of lyme disease.
I would say the possiblity of the spouse infected by ticks is much much higher than sex. Especially when we all live in epidemic area. If the disease can be spreaded so easily, not many will be left uninfected. Please don't drive oursleves crazy, our life is already crazy enough.
Posts: 27 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2008
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
Here's some really good reading on (Lyme & Sex)
Sex and Lyme Disease
How does chronic Lyme disease affect sexual functioning, and how can it be treated? Lyme can affect sexual functioning by its effect upon the cen�tral nervous system, the endocrine system, the auto�nomic nervous system, the peripheral nervous system, and/or the body.
It is well recognized that Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb) causes depression, obsessiveness, panic disor�der, and phobias that are functions of the emotional aversive pathways of the brain.
However, we can also see dysfunction of the reward pathways as well, which affect capacity for pleasure, feeding, bonding and sex.
Since Lyme disease alters the aversive pathways which affect what and who we are repelled from, it is understandable that Lyme can also alter sexual at�traction and behavioral patterns as well. With this in mind, I shall begin with some patient accounts and observations.
Sexual arousal:
Most patients report a decline in both libido and overall sexual functioning. Some state that their interest in sex and sexual functioning remain normal while a few report increased libido.
One such patient described a greatly increased libido, but was frustrated because the multitudes of chronic Lyme disease symptom made it painful to be touched and/or hugged. Others describe increased libido associ�ated with hypnagogic hallucinations.
A patient with this symptom was described in the medical literature two years ago. She displayed sexual obsessions, sexual hallucinations, and a tendency to compulsively masturbate in a dream-like state eighteen hours per day if left undisturbed.*
Some patients develop an obsessive compul�sive disorder with sexual obsessions, compulsions, intrusive images, and vivid dreams following the on�set of chronic Lyme disease.
Of particular interest, a few patients report a change in the content of sexual imagery. A change to more violent sexual themes is sometimes noted. This, in turn, sometimes altars sexual behavior.
Could Borrelia burgdorferi or other infectious diseases sometimes alter sexual orientation or contribute gen�der dysphoria, or altered patterns of sexual arousal?
There is evidence that sexual functioning is altered by a number of other parasites, including Wolbachia, Spiroplasma, Rickettsia and Microsporidia.
When Bb infections begin in childhood, are there some cases where it may have an effect upon sexual development? Is infectious disease one of the many factors that may affect sexual development?
When changes in sexual imagery occur in adults, most are upset by the changes, which result in a decline of sexual interest. However, there are times when some individuals act out these fantasies.
*Stein Sara L., MD. Et al, American Journal of Psychiatry 153:4, April 1996, Clinical Case Conference ``A 25- Year-Old Woman With Hallucinations, Hyper sexuality, Nightmares, and a Rash.''
Fertility:
Patients complain of infertility with surprising fre�quency. Is infertility more common in chronic Lyme disease patients?
Atrophy of genitalia:
A few patients who have been infected for over ten years report atrophy of the genitalia. Males have reported atrophy of
the penis and testicles, a change that is reversed by IV antibiotics.
Females report lack of vaginal lubrication, painful intercourse, and anorgasmia. One female patient reported atrophy of one breast.
Anesthesia of genitalia:
On occasion, some patients complain of a loss or sensation of the genitalia. I have also seen this symptom in a few chronic fatigue patients.
Orgasm induced migraine headaches:
Although uncommon, this is seen in chronic Lyme disease patients.
Lymphocytoma of the nipple:
This has been reported In Europe, but I have never seen such a case in my practice.
Menstrual irregularity:
A common symptom in about 50% of men�struating patients.
Breast swelling, tenderness, and lactation:
Some patients complain of this symptom.
Premenstrual Syndrome:
There is a significant tendency towards wors�ening of the chronic Lyme disease symptoms in the premenstrual period.
Besides these symptoms associated with Lyme disease, there are many other symptoms which indirectly affect sexual functioning,
i.e. - fatigue, chronic pain, depression, paranoid, hyper vigilance, mood swings, low frustration tolerance, temper outbursts, apathy, etc. These mood symptoms often alienate their partners.
It is no surprise that many chronic Lyme dis�ease patients report marital discord.
Treatment
A well-planned treatment approach for chronic Lyme disease can help the overall prognosis, thereby possibly helping any of these symptoms.
The treat�ment of sexual dysfunction is one of the last frontiers in medicine. Three new drugs for male erectile dys�function are approaching approval for marketing. The first will be Viagra, developed by Pfizer.
Loss of li�bido and a loss of sexual functioning are treated by a number of methods Testosterone treatments are sometimes effective for loss of libido in both men and women.
Dopamine agonists such as Wellbutrin and Parlodel are also used as treatment modalities.
More interesting than the treatment of sexual dysfunction is the question - can some individuals with abnormal patterns of sexual arousal be treated with antibiotics?
Steve
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Stymie, sounds like you're involved in some fast-track research here. A stimulus bill of your own...
Maybe you could locate a journal that's published weekly for some timely publishing. Even then, they might not be able to keep up with you...
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
well when you go into remission, your sex drive come back,believe me it does. and i'll have to sacrifice for my lymie friends to do this research, since i'm the only one left on lymenet with a sex drive. is that Canadian viagra any good, having trouble keeping up with the research.lol pun intended
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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steve1906
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Member # 16206
posted
stymielymie, Your not the only one left.
Personally I don't have any problems with sex, everything works!
Thank God everything isn't broke.
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
then we can do a joint study Steve you got the age group 50-80 i'll do the age group 25-45 send results to: lyme sex study group po box111111117 c/o cdc /id/lyme atlanta,ga lol docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
How do I go about this?
Should I send time with people 50-80 on a Intimate sense and see if they have problems with sex?
I'm only 55 so I'm not sure if I'll send much time with the (around 80 group)...
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
nonono you must have sex with 50 people with protection and 50 without will need results by next friday lol
and maybe you can give someone lyme through sex.. my thoughts depends on what stage. stage 1 very probable, stage 3 no so probably. my wife and i have unprotected sex and she never got lyme in 15 years.although my dogs all have gotten lyme. do not read anything into that last statement.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
OK then... I have to get busy right away.
If I do the math that's about 7 per/day for 7 days.
I'll ether be the happiest man on earth or I'll be dead!!!
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
no that's 14 per day for 7 days but for you i'll lengthen the study to 2 weeks
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Steve,
Do you have a link for "Sex and Lyme Disease" or an author's name to put to that?
thanks.
---------
sixgoofykids -
- Oh, my! I just came back to this thread and see that I did, indeed, post the Quercetin link on the wrong thread. By now I have no memory of where I meant to put that.
When you mean Double Blind are you talking about a Two bagger? Meaning that your gal/ or guy is so ugly you need to put two bags over their head, just in case one breaks.
-------------------- Positive 10 bands WB IGG & IGM + Babesia + Bartonolla and NOW RMSF 3/5/09 all at Quest
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always great for someone to lighten up the subjects around here! thanks for the laughs!! :)xox
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