the thing is, this chimp had 14+ years of very passive behavior, i assume prior to contracting tbd's.
also -- this line in the above posted article:
"Police said experts may study the chimp's brain tissue to help determine what caused its aggressive behavior."
if they would actually do this, there's a good chance they would find spirochetes. that would be something.
not like we can get that done as easily on a human............
mo
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
Didn't they say this chimp weighed in around 200lbs?
That is what we heard here.
I wouldn't have a 200lb dog in my house.
They are domesticated.....however, continue and will be instinctive creatures.
Dogs kill people all the time.
Wonder how many of them were tested for Lyme disease.
I think that the situation is horrible.
Lyme or not.
Prayers to the woman who may die from the mauling.
Prayers also to the people who mistakenly thought
That an animal, no matter how "human" they act and are treated,
Continue to revert to instinctive types of behavior.
They must be besides themselves.
Lyme may have been a factor.
I guess it is just.......sad.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
Forgot to add that if they found bb in the chimps brain,
Do you think they would generalize the "chimps" out of control behavior,
To those of us with Lyme?
Wait......wouldn't 21 days of antibiotics "cure" the Lyme?
Can't wait for the IDSA to weigh in on this one.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Someone mentions that on pg 11 of the blog!!!!
Check it out as I copied this comment that a poster made.
This is very sad indeed. For everyone involved a true tradgedy. I am suprised that more of the people in that area of Connecticut are not really concerned about the LYME aspect that Travis had to live with daily.
Many people are completely unaware that Lyme Disease can turn to Chronic Lyme and affect multiple systems in the body i/e the heart, brain, eye, etc.... Travis may have been experiencing what is known in the Lyme world as "Lyme Rage". The xanax probably didn't cause this attack. Considering he had Chronic Lyme Disease, than this was probably what happened.
I hope that they do indeed autopsy his brain to see if Travis had Spirochetes in it. If he did, this should be a lesson to the IDSA that short courses of abx don't cure Lyme Disease like they would like us to believe.
You peopl in Connecticut live in a Lyme ifested part of the country(though it is also in all fifty states now). Perhpas you should use this story to your advantage and make sure the IDSA Changes their bogus guidelines on how to diagnose and treat Lyme Disease. They are currently in the process of putting together a supposed unbiased panel(rumor has it that it's anything but). Get involved in Lyme. Check out Lymenet.org or the LDA. This could easily happen to you or a loved one.
Please educate yourself about this disease. It's now in all of our backyards. I know, because I have it.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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2. Don't mess with us Lymies, just give us what we want, cuz we can snap at any moment (hear that Wormser?)
Seriously, like someone said before, dogs kill people all the time, and they've been domesticated for thousands of years. My neighbor's 2 yr old grandson was attacked by their pet pitt bull. The dog actually bit off the child's nose, and it could not be reattached. This chimp, by all accounts, was mischievous but not aggressive throughout his life, and seemed well-adapted to living wth a human family. I say it HAD to be the Lyme. Lyme rage is real. I've seen it in myself over the years.
Now, I understand they may examine the chimp's brain. I'm sure the chimp has already been treated with antibiotics for the Lyme. Wouldn't it be something if they do find live spirochetes in the brain tissue even after treatment - this would be HUGE. It could only benefit our cause, since it will show the organism survives antibiotic treatment, thus proving in a very dramatic way the existence of chronic Lyme in primates, which is US.
I personally believe that there is so much unexplained human illness, both physical and psychiatric, that is caused by tick-borne pathogens. It may take decades to get a handle on it. Perhaps some good will come of of this tragedy.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Don't forget about the severe anxiety that many of us suffer from and sometimes confusion and
irrational fear. Travis could not talk like we can and express what he was feeling. No one will
ever know what he was feeling but living thru this illness I can only image that he was frightened to
death with fear, overcome with anxiety and snapped.
This is a very sad tragedy for all concerned.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
The poor woman basically had her face torn off and is in extremely critical condition.
I have no clue about how aggressive chimpanzees can be, I didn't even know they could get to 200 lbs. Whatever, they should not, of course, be household pets.
I am sure that if they continue to pursue the Lyme connection the powers-that-be will make sure they blame the treatment in some way, rather than the illness.
I wouldn't be surprised at all however if this was a case of Lyme rage. The monkey probably felt lousy and had no idea why or what to expect. Tragic.
Posts: 459 | From Connecticut - just across the river from the Lymes (Old Lyme, Hadlyme, East Lyme, South Lyme & Lyme) | Registered: Oct 2000
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
quote:Originally posted by charlie: you really shouldn't bring wild animals into your house to live like domestic pets just because they act docile for awhile....
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
The chimp was ALSO ON XANAX, which is known to cause homicidal rages, among other nasty side effects.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I thought that Xanax was intended to supress the anxiety, and actually make you sleepy rather than cause the rage ???
Posts: 570 | From philadelphia, pa | Registered: Dec 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
If the liver is stressed all circuits can blow.
Xanax can be very hard on the liver - and I doubt it's intended for a chimp's neuro-circuitry.
Even if the xanax had been relaxing, the Chimp's genes and instinct went to work - if surprised - or startled - instinct was triggered to mount a full defense. To him, it might well have been an enemy and once the switch goes off in the brain, there is no return.
When I tried xanax years ago, that is when my ears went kaboom, literally.
EVERY THING was loud. I'd startle when a rubber band fell on the carpet. That is when the sound-trigger seizures began for me. Then another drug, effexor, just sealed the deal and my ears have never returned to normal.
Now, part of this could have been because (as I later learned) my liver was too toxic (part from lyme that had gone undiagnosed; part from my liver not processing the C P-450 drugs).
Xanax is extensively metabolized in humans, primarily by cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4). I don't know how chimps would process this. But, if lyme and liver stress, bad combination.
If a liver can't metabolize effectively, that liver stress can lead to rage, partly due to the build-up of excess porphyrins that are neurotoxic.
Serious infection can create a secondary porphryia in humans and my guess is that the same can happen in other mammals.
Especially with lyme toxins - and in a chimp who has had WINE, too?! - that creates a more toxic soup in the liver and a fuse to the nervous system. Any spark could light that.
And, many chimps at that age have become too aggressive. It's a common pattern for chimp-pets even in the best circumstances and the best cared-for chimps.
disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
I agree with Cass.
The chimp owner was on Good Morning America yesterday (I think it was Good Morning America) and she was at that time trying to take back what she had formerly said about giving the monkey Xanax. At first she had no qualms about coming out and saying that she had given the monkey Xanax, but after it came out that Xanax could have caused the rage/attack to happen in the first place, she then started totally taking it back that she ever gave the monkey Xanax, that she would never do something like that, blah, blah, blah. Can we say liar?! Not to mention she gave the monkey people food as well as WINE.
This lady gives ME lyme rage!!!! She really needs to be reprimanded BIG TIME for having a monkey as a pet and causing her friend to almost die.
I know a lot of people think this is such good news for the lyme community, but I don't even think that's the big issue in this at all. The big issue is that this lady is extremely stupid (like most of the population, unfortunately) and took in a chimp that weighs more than she probably does and expected it to live humanely.... It's a WILD animal... that means it should STAY in the wild. Argggg!
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
I, too, think this is not such good news for lyme patients. It rather paints it in a bad light.
This violent attack is not going to be understood in an academic sense and this actually could make all lyme patients be perceived as ready to pop their cork - an unfair comparison.
Lyme patients have long been perceived as having psychiatric problems. If the comparison to the chimp's behavior is made, that could create a huge set-back for a full understanding of lyme, as the media is likely to interpret it.
posted
But maybe it would make them look at Lyme from a different perspective, or at least look at it as a whole... ???
Ofcourse I feel very bad for the lady who suffered the attack, but if Lyme was the reason, then Lyme surely needs to be addressed and researched much much more.
There will never come any good of any sick individual or animal from doing something harmful which is contributed to any illness,
but if a disease caused this to happen, then that disease definitely needs to be paid much more attention to.
And the entire medical community needs to step up.
Posts: 570 | From philadelphia, pa | Registered: Dec 2008
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tdtid
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Member # 10276
posted
Has there been any update on how the woman is doing that had been attacked?
I know depending on which news article I read... some would say she was in serious condition, one even said she wasn't expected to live and all sorts of speculation.
I was just wondering if anyone has seen an update on her.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i understand from fox news that she "had her face torn off and both hands"....
how horrible for her. i can't imagine her pain....
and that little animal...well not little but you get the point.
chimps are fine when small but any idiot knows that a full grown chimp is a very dangerous animal. just watch any animal planet story on chimps. they are aggressive and dangerous when full grown....
this whole thing could have been avoided by laws stating you can't own ANY wild animal....period...and making sure people follow them.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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JRWagner
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3229
We are too quick to blame Lyme...a 200 lb chimp is 7 times stronger than an adult human...and should never be a pet. Wild animals belong in the wild. Period.
Why do stupid humans insist on "owning" whatever animal that suits them, no matter what harm could come to the animal or to other humans. Pet Cougars? Elephants? Grizzly Bears? Stupid fools...
Now this poor lady has lost her eyes, her entire face, etc.
When are we going to learn?
Peace, Love, and Wellness, JRW
Posts: 1414 | From Ny, Ny | Registered: Oct 2002
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
JR - AMEN! I agree with what you said 100 times over.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
The owner-woman was lonely, the chimpanzee ate lobster and ice-cream and as her "son" was never held to any human boundaries, much less those warranted by having a 200 pound aggressive beast in one's home.
I hope Lyme isn't mentioned in follow-ups. The whole story is so whacked out and horrible and sad and pointless.
Humans with Lyme make for better teaching moments.
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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bettyg
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posted
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