posted
Dr. H has those bottles, sparkle, but Dr. Cowden came up with them .... I think they sound interesting. I didn't have luck with the regular Cowden either, but I'd be willing to at least give them a try.
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If it is anything like the frequency remedies I am using (not cowden)....it is spectacular. Regular cowden made me herx!!! I love this other protocol I have been doing. I feel great now!
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Truthfinder
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Six, where did you learn about these? I can't turn up any information, unless these are the `imprinted' extracts from BioPure.
Frankly, I'm a little concerned about this, but would like to know more before passing judgment.
It seems that everyone wants to get on the `homeopathic' bandwagon, and `enchance' their products with remedies or frequencies. I've already booted one company out of my life for this practice because, not only have they decided that this `energy' that they infuse into all their products is good for EVERYONE, they don't inform their customers that they are doing it. I just got lucky finding out about it ....
Last I checked into it, the Cowden protocol calls for several products like Samento to be taken a couple of times a day, often for weeks or months at a time (with some short breaks). Maybe this has changed.
What I'm sure of is this: If you hammer your system daily for a long period of time (weeks, months) with a certain homeopathic remedy (frequency) that it doesn't need or can't utilize, there's a pretty good chance that your body will `acquire' that frequency and it will become a part of you. NOT a good idea. Ask GiGi how tough it is to try to `undo' an inappropriate homeopathic remedy experience....
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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mojo
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What are "frequency remedies"? My NP uses a machine on me to measure what my current "situation" is and makes drops with the same machine. Is this a "frequency remedy"? I get new drops every seven weeks.
I had similar "die off" on my first drops similar to what I had while on Cowden - a lot of "hurty" bumps on my head and some facial acne. I had several days of a "flare/herx" on the second set of drops. I'm certain they are doing "something" and I'd love to hear from others who are doing anything similar.
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Truthfinder These are the 'new' way to take the Cowden herbs...to get the Cowden Imprinted Samento and Cumanda and then when down to a 1/3 of a bottle (?) refill with the regular stuff.
They have to be sucussed (struck 50x) to activate. My LLMD Dr H gave me them.
Has anyone tried this ? (I haven't take any as yet - other than the regular bottles)
Emma
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Brussels
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Hey Emma, good to see you again.
that is EXACTLY WHAT I asked Tracy Truthfinder in the other thread about homeopathics.
I thought I was the only one trying this stuff with REGULAR herbal tinctures and other things... Funny to know Cowden is doing that!!!!
This is a sort of homeopathic, according to your description, but it doesn't even fit in the D1 or X1 dilution (1/3 original tincture + 2/3 water). So not following Hahnemann probably.
I have found out by experimentation that these low diluted herbs many times work VERY similar to the real herbs but they do have an homeopathic effect too.
They do behave in the middle line between a normal tincture and a homeopathic product.
I'm glad to know Cowden decided to use them. I just realized that herbs like ANDROGRAPHIS paniculata used in the Buhner protocol is a classic herb sold in homeopathic dilutions!! I haven't seen cats claw yet, but of course, anyone could do it at home and see.
But as Tracy says, this is sooo new. My question to her was exactly that... What kind of thing does the tincture become after being sucussed? I mean, what kind of effects could it have to us??
I FEEL that the effect is different from herbs. The number of drops fall (we need muuuch less of the homeopathic dilution than the original tincture, so we gotta watch out for dosage, for sure due to herxes), and that the effect goes to my brain or body IMMEDIATELY at the contact of the drops under my tongue. Exactly like an homeopathic substance.
With undiluted herbs in tincture, the effect is faster than powder herbs, for sure. But not THIS fast as they act only in the biochemical level.
Somehow, I see these STRONG dilutions of herbs like you are describing as something REALLY in between homeopathy and herbs. Chemical substances are STILL present in the liquid (like a tincture of herb) but the sucussion and dilution make the water with an homeopathic effect.
I think, as ALWAYS, we lyme sufferers are all lab rats in no matter what kind of new treatment (or even old treatments!!). Whatever the effect is, I am very curious to know too.
I am doing dilutions of cleansers like bear garlic tincture, and find it very good. I do though a D1 dilution. I also dilute enzymes like Rechts regulat and have the feeling i got a double treatment too (the real enzymes plus some sort of homeopathic enzymes!!)...
I am doing dilutions of mixed homeopathics from Heel, and many times these mixed homeopathics test energetically BETTER than the original vials, so I'm using them too...
I just feel that if we still add electrolytes to these half-tinctures half-homeopathics, we get even a stronger effect, probably because it boosts entrace to the cells?
Another thing to take in consideration is that if the bottle is rediluted with 2/3 of water, the alcohol content gets smaller and it will not last as long as normal tinctures that are 40% alcohol. I would add alcohol or electrolytes to keep the these diluted tinctures for longer.
I'm very curious to know how you people react to diluted-sucussed Samento. I find that one can do that with virtually anything, but as Tracy says, this is at our own risk, as homeopathy needs years, decades of usage to catalogue what are the possible effects of a single substance....
If you all could post their experiences and compare with regular Samento, I would be VERY thankful. There is A HUGE possibility that opens if such diluted tinctures work.
First on the cost, the treatment cost can go down to about 1/10 of the price for using normal tinctures. If not less.
Second is on the way-speed of recovery. With pure herbs, it is a long process, like with abx. But with these homeopathic messages, I wonder if one can't get faster results...
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SForsgren
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They are imprinted with specific infection frequencies as I understand and should help them to be more effective and target specific things. As I understand, the imprinted remedies have been quite powerful so far.
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Brussels
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Scott, but are these specific frequencies the frequencies of the critters or are these frequencies there because of succussion + dilution as described by Emma??
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Truthfinder
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Thanks, Emma - that helped to clarify that it's being treated as a `homeopathic' concoction. Were you also told to succuss the bottle a few times before each dose? Do these imprinted bottles have special labels, or anything different listed in the `other ingredients' section of the label? Were you given any additional instructions, like to stop taking it if you develop new symptoms?
Agreed, Selma; the instructions Emma was given for `plussing' the bottle when it was down to 1/3 doesn't fit any standard practice, but it will serve to raise the potency slightly, which is important..... Also, Emma said she is supposed to add regular Samento, not water, when the bottle is down to 1/3 - at least that's my understanding of it. So, that's another peculiarity with this `new' method.
I, too, would really like to hear some first-hand experiences about using these new `imprinted' Nutramedix extracts. From my experience and the accounts I've read, just the `standard' version of Cumanda can be very powerful and hard to handle. I can't imagine what it might be like if it were enhanced or `stronger'.
I'm still a bit uneasy about taking anything like this for very long without some kind of ART or muscle testing to determine if it's something each individual person needs. Without `testing' it first, at the very least, I would do this `imprinted' Samento for maybe a month, then a month with regular Samento, switching back and forth.
Thanks, Scott - I was going to send you an e-mail to see what you might know about this..... has anything been published that we could all read? Are ALL new bottles of Samento and Cumanda now imprinted? Who helped Cowden/Nutramedix with this idea?
``Specific infection frequencies'' certainly sounds like `electromagnetically-generated nosodes' to me. Low potencies? High potencies? Mixed potencies (homochords)?
And how is a patient supposed to sort out the effects of the herbal extract vs. any reaction to the `homeotherapeutic' imprint?
I love a good, well-reasoned experiment, but I want to be fully informed about it before I decide to participate, and that includes possible consequences. What worries me most is that Cowden (or Nutramedix) doesn't have enough knowledge to realize that there COULD BE some negative results from this, and it could take years to find that out, as Selma said above.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Brussels
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Tosho, how do you feel about this Samento? I know you are the type no-herx-no-improvement for any type of treatment... Do you feel something going on with these 'imprinted Samento'? I'm very curious to know...
Thanks
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Brussels
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My husband caught strep in a business trip. A sort of staphilostrep thing, a mixed infection, it seems.
He is sooo sick, fever, headache, not eating for two days. I tested andrographis and it came good. He took it, but hated the bitter taste. Andrographis seems to respond well to strep.
Well, I just did dilutions of andrographis and D6 dilution was the one testing good.
It tests BETTER for strep than the ORIGINAL HERB.
There are 2 adavantages then: there's no more any bitter taste from andrographis; and for some reason, it seems to be more efficient than UNDILUTED andrographis...
We haven't tried it for lyme though, as I am not taking anything ingested for it.
I think I'll dilute some Samento myself (or cats claw) to see if any of us test for higher dilutions...
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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I started out with parsley, imprinted Samento and Cumanda, but I ended up to be allergic to cumanda so had to stop. I now have the full cowden (with imprinted samento), but haven't started yet since I wanted to take a round of humaworm.
I didn't want to start too many new things at one time. Now I'm having issues of allergic reaction to huma, and think I'm going to have to stop that too!!
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Truthfinder
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Mojo, from your description, I would call your drops `frequency remedies', but they have been `personalized' to your particular health situation.
Tosho, the short answer is that at some point, you could acquire symptoms that become very difficult to get rid of.
I am in touch with someone this happened to, and after 2 years, she still has a swallowing problem that is making her life rather difficult. The swallowing problem is something she acquired from taking a homeopathic remedy for a long period (about 3 months, I think). She should have stopped taking the remedy when the symptom appeared, but she didn't know any better and her homeopath didn't tell her.
But I should clarify one point: I was just reading some of the Healers Who Share information (nikkib's frequency remedies), and for some reason, the founder believes that since `frequency remedies' (including imprinted remedies) are artificially generated - and not made from actual, tangible substances - that they can never cause undesirable symptoms, even if the wrong remedy is taken over a period of time. He gives ONE first-hand example. Just one.
This is the first I've ever heard this `claim' being made. And one example isn't `proof' of anything.
Even with standard homeopathic remedies or nosodes, only a certain percentage of people will develop symptoms as a result of taking the wrong remedy. It's much like the problem with the quinolone class of antibiotics: Only a few people will develop connective tissues problems, and a few of those people end up with ruptured tendons. It's a risk, and one that patients should be aware of it before they are given any quinolones, IMHO.
So, now we have THREE questions that need answers:
1. What ``specific infection frequencies'' have been imprinted into these Samento and Cumanda extracts;
2. Do ALL new bottles of Samento and Cumanda contain these imprints; and
3. Are electro-magnetically generated remedies IDENTICAL to traditionally-prepared homeopathic remedies (and nosodes) or aren't they?
Anyone willing to try to find out more info from Dr. H. or Dr. C. or....... ?
Selma, let us know how your D6 andrographis works for your hubby. And will it work to prevent you and your daughter from catching it? (Sometimes the `cure' can be preventative, too.)
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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sparkle7
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Can anyone explain more about this?
How did Dr. Cowden start doing this? Is he or Nutrimedix recommending to do this?
Are they imprinted for "you" specifically? If not, what are they imprinted with?
What device is used for the imprinting? Do you have to place your hand on a plate or do they do it from a blood sample, hair, etc.?
Do the herbs become homeopathic preparations or are they herbal remedies? I believe there is a difference in what you treat with each type of modality. Each one may have effects on a number of ailments... ie: Cat's Claw may be used for a variety of ailments.
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Truthfinder
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Exactly, Sparkle.
I know someone who was taking Samento and they didn't have any TBIs - they were taking it for immune modulation or inflammation - I can't remember now what for. They certainly didn't need - or want - an `imprinted' version of Samento.
Maybe I'll see if Derek Clontz knows anything about this........
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Brussels
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Tosho, good luck with Rizols... They never really helped me a lot, I wonder why. I took it for very short time. Some people take it even like a supository, but don't ask me info as I don't know.
I hate the taste of rizols. I think you'd rather dilute this stuff in warm water and drink it. Or you could put the drops in a capsule and ingest the capsule with water. That is what I did most of the times...
Let us know about Samento.
Hubby is much better , no fever for almost 24 hours now, we're going out to meet friends tonight. I guess andro was good, but he took other things.
I could cut the infection for myself in a few hours: Strep nosodes, andro D6, and some herb in D1 I just did yesterday (it's called agriao in Portuguese)... Hubby was in Ledum, and other homeopathics for symptoms too. The best one was one to cut fever!
wish you good luck, Tosho, you ARE a tough guy... Careful with herbs, I would say, but I know you are like IRONMAN, nothing crashes you! I wonder how homeopathy would work with you... Or IF it can work with you...
I always found WHOLE cats claw much stronger and better than Samento (with Dr. K's imprints), but I know each person is different...
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Truthfinder
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Thanks, Tosho!
I haven't found out much beyond what has been discussed here, although one source was told that ``.....this imprinting is a "vibrational" and "intentional" procedure, not unlike praying over the bottles to make them more effective''.
But if that's the case, then why the `succussing and diluting' at certain stages? I've never heard of that being necessary with `healing energies' or whatever we may wish to call them, but it's also an area I'm not real familiar with.
I'll post anything more I might find out.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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I have been using these imprinted versions for 2 months now. Ramped up to full doe about a month ago. I am on the Cumanda, Samento,Imprinted bottles. I do parsley with each dose.
I have to say I can't say what is happening as I think i am in a pretty prolonged herx as I changed my protocol and went on IV Ricephin at the same time. I also doubled the dosasge to 4 Grams 2 weeks ago.
I am under Dr H too. I am going to keep the heat turned up all the way. It is possible that the herbs are contributing to the herx but I cant be sure.
I also feel I need high doses of both herbs and antibiotics to be effective(to achieve good eye penetration). My eye inflammation finally died down last week. Lets hope it stays that way.
Emma I hope you are doing well.
Neil
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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Truthfinder
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Tosho, personally, I wouldn't use hot or warm water. For starters, if there are homeopathic `frequencies' in the extract, they could be destroyed or weakened by the heat. Heat is a killer for homeopathics. Up to about 105 degrees is okay, but it gets dicey beyond that.
Could you just let the water with drops stand a room temp for awhile and let the alcohol dissipate that way? Or maybe put the drops in the glass, let it sit, then add your water sometime later? I'd try those options first.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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explains the imprints
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Brussels
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Thanks Robin.
It looks to me very much like this is simply a strong dilution of a tincture (like a close to a D1 dilution).
Cowden is CERTAINLY playing with homeopathy as it says to keep succussing the bottles.
the explanation for why to keep the 1st bottle that has been succussed every 3-4 days during a few weeks and add the new unsuccussed bottle is the following, for me:
The more you succuss any homeopathic dilution, you add potency to it. They become stronger. Then, when you are about to finish your first bottle of Samento, for example, the dilution is much stronger than when you first took it because of successive times you sucussed the bottle. That is why, when you add a new unsuccussed bottle, the process re-starts.
The memory of higher potencies from the first bottle is kept then, while you add new less potent liquids.
In my opinion, I would do the same like:
Buy one bottle of common Samento, make 10 bottles of it through a X1 dilution, succussed 40 times. Then take one bottle X1, use it as suggested by Cowden, then add the second bottle and so on.
The only difference is that you got to buy the old version of Samento, not the new already diluted one. I don't know exactly which dilution of Samento he is using, if on D1 or more concentrated, but if I were still sick with lyme, I would simply buy one Cowden bottle without imprints, another with imprints, prepare my own dilutions and get them tested to see which tests better.
If this imprinted Samento was undiluted, I don't believe that the potency stays for 3 days. For me, undiluted stuff loose homeopathic potency very fast, in a matter of hours or maximum a day. I've seen it on and on with different substances, going from nosodes, herbal tinctures, or chemical products like procaine now.
It's only when there's enough water inside that the thing becomes a real homeopathic product and have its potency kept after a few days to months, or years.
I'm playing with Thai Ginseng homeopathic, X1 dilution for quite some time, as well as with Rechtsregulat X1 dilution too. They behave EXACTLY like what Cowden describes, they need sucussing every 3-4 days, they are usually equal or more potent than original undiluted thing.
I'll keep the advice then to keep the rest of my first bottle when I add newly a new bottle.
It saves LOADS of money, and it still works better than undiluted things!!
My guess!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
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Another thing I forgot to say, when you dilute to a X1 dilution, the amount of substance you need falls CONSIDERABLY. You don't need to take like 30 drops of Samento, but you'll need, lets say, 5 or similar.
you guys doing muscle test that still have lyme then, could simply test an non imprinted bottle and an imprinted bottle to get the exact number of drops and see if it the number of drops falls with the imprinted bottles.
If yes, well, I guess my guess is very close to reality.
Easily seen through muscle test. So, yes, my bottle of Rechtsregulat, undiluted, is still here (so I can still compare a X1 dilution and the undiluted product) and I will only have to buy another when it spoils, because I'll have a 'source' for almost forever, for the whole family.
While my body asks for about 10ml-15ml a day of undiluted product, I just need about 5-10 drops of the X1 dilution, much less.
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Truthfinder
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R62, I find no explanation of the `infusion' or `imprinting' in the link you gave. We still don't know what they are doing.
Good explanation of how and why this works, Selma. And I think it's terrific that you've successfully used strong dillutions of many different things!
But I suspect these imprinted bottles are more than just a strong dilutions of Samento, Cumanda, etc. If so, the question is WHAT is being `imprinted'.
Are the bottles `imprinted' with the frequencies of homeopathic-like nosodes? Or perhaps they `infuse' the frequencies of certain Tibetan Singing Bowls? Or maybe a Reiki Master stands there and infuses energy into the bottles....? Could be that they flash some specific color spectrum through the extracts before bottling..... or they might even use photons.....
We have no real clue here about WHAT they are doing, and it bothers me that they haven't been up-front about it. Why the absence of information? It's like NutraMedix is conducting their own little `blinded trial', at no cost to them, with consumers as the Guinea Pigs.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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dontlikeliver
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I can't see how it can possibly be imprinted 'personally' for an individual. It was ordered for me over the phone; how can that be a 'personal' imprint. It could only be if it it was Isopathic, I think.
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING IMPRINTED PRODUCTS BANDEROL, SAMENTO, MORA, ENULA, CUMANDA, QUINA are infused and should be succussed every 3 - 4 days if they are in use. Only 2 of these 6 products are used the same day. Succussion (suc�cus�sion / su-kush�un) is the rapid and forceful striking of the bottle against a firm surface or palm of the hand approximately fifty times. Remember to be cautious when succussing glass bottles. Use a firm padded surface, like your hand, but not a hard surface. When 1/4 - 1/8 of an inch of liquid is left in the bottle, refill the bottle using the liquid from a new bottle of identical product and then succuss. The bottle should be succussed each time it is refilled and every 3 - 4 days thereafter. NOTICE: The last 1/4 - 1/8 of an inch of liquid in the first bottle is the basis for making your second bottle of infused product as described above. Do NOT use all of the liquid in the first bottle before blending with the second bottle. (CONTINUED ON REVERSE SIDE)
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I'm going to call them about the new condensed protocol, so I will ask what they are imprinted with and get back to you all.
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dontlikeliver
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Thanks R62
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Truthfinder
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Thanks, R62. Be tough on them - don't let them slide by with some generic answer like 'healing fequencies' or something.
My source of info. seems to be on vacation or something....
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Brussels
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Dr. K's Noni and Samento are said to have eletromagenetic imprints of borrelia and other pathogens, if I understood well.
And if I understood well, dr. K. inspired his products from Nutramedix as I think the idea of Samento and Noni was initially from them, not from dr. K.
I love the Noni from dr. K., but never used any other Noni tincture to compare if it's better or just the same.
I prefered though normal cats claw tincture to dr. K's imprinted Samento. I found them much better for me for longer.
At least, that was how it was loooong ago marketed, as having pathogens' imprints (but I can be wrong as my brain was 'lymed' at that time).
but there was never such rules to sucuss.
Only ingest them normally, like any other tincture.
If this is what these new cowden imprinted tinctures have, pathogen frequency imprint, why need to sucuss??
The sucussing for me must mean homeopathic imprinting! It sounds logic to do it how they suggest, adding new bottles to the higher potencies, and further succusing to increase potency.
But still, keeping lots of the real substance, not only water imprinted.
Then the person would be treating with higher potencies, but also with lower. The more bottles the person uses, the higher potencies one should get. --
Good luck Robin! Please, let us know what you find.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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i had just become very comfortable and rather knowledgeable of the principles of homeopathy in recent years, feeling quite confident in the treatment (classical) ...and now it seems prudent to try and understand this info in cases treating certain diseases, and i'm confused!!!
thanks for keeping the info active for all to see, i hope to catch up at some point.
mo
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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sparkle7
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I have a feeling that maybe they are being "imprinted" with the Asyra or some other similar device... Dr. Cowden does use this device in his practice & he does offer lectures about it.
They may be imprinted with the frequencies to treat the ailments that they are for... I'd have to go through each remedy/tincture to see what they are each used for.
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I'll take notes from this thread and hit them hard! I'll get back to you this week. Need quiet time to contact them.
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