Been slowly improving with more good days since end of December when I really bottomed out and had TONS of nasty brain fog.
I've been tested for candida from quest and it comes back 1.9 IGM as high. LLMD says that its not all that high and he's not all that worried about it. My diet is pretty good - avoid yeast, sugar and pasta. I do eat other carbs though - LLMD said it was OK.
So, after a good week last week where I almost felt normal, I made the mistake of having 2 small glasses of red wine on Friday night. I woke up the next AM really achy - more so than I'd seen in a few weeks. Neck and elbow REALLY sore. I am still pretty sore 5 days later.
So, I know that yeast has mostly the same symptoms as lyme. But could this really be yeast and not lyme?? Maybe the wine caused the lyme to flare? Or maybe I was due for it to come out of hiding again?
I struggle with this - if it is yeast - how in the world will I ever know if I am in remission with lyme if
BTW, I have no other signs of yeast - no thrush or female issues.
Would appreciate any feedback or insight you might have for me!
Thanks, Hatinglyme (or maybe candida too!)
Posts: 14 | From Ticksville, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Hatinglyme: I struggle with this - if it is yeast - how in the world will I ever know if I am in remission with lyme if
Exactly what I've been preaching for 8 yrs around here. How will you know? You won't.
Yes, it sounds like yeast to me.
My dr had me take Nystatin everyday. Maybe your LLMD would be willing to let you try that? Review this information as well. Maybe you'll find something that is triggering your yeast (besides the WINE!)
DIET, DIET, DIET is the key. Then, be sure to follow the 5 step plan outlined below. It was developed by my naturopath. It works.
"Successful control and elminiation of a Candida Albicans overgrowth requires a multifaceted program as described below. Failure to follow ALL the steps simultaneously will result in slow progress and will lengthen healing time significantly. The program should be tailored to the individual and must balance the need to eliminate the Candida and deprive it of its food source while insuring proper nutrition for the individual."
Five Steps to Candida Elimination:
1. You must starve it into submission by eliminating its food source.
2. You must kill it with anti-fungal herbs and supplements. [e.g....garlic, onion, caprylic acid, Pau D'Arco capsules or tea, clove, grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano, tea tree oil, Echinacea, Goldenseal, black walnut, MSM, barberry root, uva ursi, neem leaf, biotin]
3. You must reestablish the proper balance and quantity of probiotic bacteria in the digestive tract. [...multi-strain lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidus capsules with FOS should be taken between meals to maximize repopulation of the digestive tract by beneficial bacteria.]
4. You must reestablish proper levels of all B vitamins (yeast free) and utilize other immune enhancing supplements to boost immune system function. [e.g ... B complex vitamins (yeast free), biotin, beta 1-3 glucan, colostrum, maitake mushroom, vitamins A, C, E, zinc and selenium]
5. You must cleanse and heal the digestive tract to promote proper elimination of toxins and Candida and assimilation of nutrients. [e.g...chlorophyll, MSM, omega 3 fatty acids found in flax seed and salmon oils, GLA found in borage, evening primrose and black currant oils. Pantothenic acid, digestive enzymes between meals]
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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The arthritis is exactly what I was feeling before I even started abx - that's why I feel like maybe it might not be the yeast.
I think LLMD would be fine with nystatin everyday. Was only taking it on days that I wasn't taking the diflucan.
I also forgot to include that I take lots of high quality probiotics far apart from abx as well as a supplement called Tanalbit which is supposed to fight the candida as well.
Posts: 14 | From Ticksville, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Hi,
On Dr B's symptom checklist for lyme, one of the symptoms is "exaggerated symptoms or worse hangover, from alcohol".
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622
posted
Achey joint pain = Yeast
Simple solution - STAY AWAY FROM ALCOHOL
I've haven't touched it in over 5 years.
You might want to add in Oil of Oregano or Capryllic Acid until you get over this.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Lymeinhell - thanks for the reply. I will try the other remedies I am wondering though, how you can sound so SURE?
So, let me get this straight, the same exact joint pain I had with lyme, that I know was lyme, is now definitely yeast? Even 6 days after the offending wine? The pain is really no different than when I've herxed before. Does yeast really work that way? If it was that invasive and in my joints, wouldn't I have some other symptoms? Fatigue? Thrush? Fog? Don't have it.
If so, then I guess I should be happy - that means my lyme isn't causing me these symptoms anymore. :-)
Everytime I ask my LLMD about what's yeast and what's lyme, he asks "why would you think it's yeast? You know you have both but why wouldn't it just be the lyme?"
All the unknowns of this disease are infuriating!!
Posts: 14 | From Ticksville, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
This has been posted before but you asked !
A New Approach to Chronic Lyme Disease ImmuneSupport.com 05-11-2005 By Jill Neimark In May of this year I sat down at the beautiful Essex House on Central Park South, with a German physician specializing in internal medicine, Fritz Schardt. Dr. Schardt, who is associated with the University of Wurzburg in Germany, published an interesting pilot study in the European Journal of Medical Research in July of 2004 on the use of an antifungal drug, fluconazole, in treating chronic, advanced lyme disease. This pilot study examined 11 patients with chronic lyme. Dr. Schardt has slowly refined the protocol since then, and believes it holds great promise in treating this difficult condition--which is often misdiagnosed as chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia. Here follows our interview:
Jill Neimark (JN): What made you think of using diflucan, an antifungal, to treat lyme disease? Dr. Fritz Schardt (FS): I was actually my first patient. I got lyme disease in 1989, and was given two weeks of doxycycline. Our country follows the protocols set by yours, so that's what is generally recommended. I now know that was very inadequate and I do not think doxycycline should be used in early lyme disease at all. It is only bacteriostatic, meaning it inhibits the bacteria but does not kill them.
JN: I know, the same thing happened to me. At the doses they recommend, it also does not penetrate the central nervous system. I had a fever, stiff neck and bullseye rash. The stiff neck means it was already in my nervous system. Therefore I probably needed six to eight weeks of doxycycline at double the dose I was given. Higher doses will penetrate the CNS.
FS: Right. I recommend penicillin in early lyme disease.
JN: Amoxicillin is given here. Is that what you recommend?
FS: No, that's broad spectrum, so you end up killing many bacteria, including necessary ones in your gut. I recommend smaller spectrum penicillins. The syphilis spirochete has not become resistant to penicillin, and there's good evidence that borrelia, the lyme spirochete, has not either. In Germany, we have cefalosporine, roxithromycin, cotrim-TMPO, and clarithromycin. These are all good choices. They should still be taken for 20-30 days.
JN: Okay, well, you took doxycycline so you ended up with chronic lyme disease. What happened then?
FS: I was sick for 18 months. I was given intravenous rocephin several times. I would feel better, but then once I stopped taking the antibiotics, I relapsed. I was often bedridden and I thought I was ready for the wheelchair. Then, I developed a fungal infection, possibly because of all the antibiotics. So I was put on diflucan. This was around 1990. It was a new drug that was being used mainly for opportunistic fungal infections in AIDS patients.
JN: And what happened?
FS: I got better. But I only stayed on it for two weeks at first, and then I got worse again. So I went back on it for 30 days, and I got well.
JN: What was the dose?
FS: I took 100 milligrams twice a day.
JN: Are you completely well?
FS: I am very active and energetic and I feel quite well. I have since competed in athletic events and won them. However, I do have an occasional heart arrhythmia that I believe may be due to permanent damage from the spirochete.
JN: Tell me your reasoning as to why diflucan might work in chronic lyme.
FS: There are several reasons. First of all, it inhibits an enzyme called cytochrome P450. This is an enzyme that your liver, for instance, uses to detoxify chemicals and drugs. Borrelia has a very primitive p450 defense, so if you inhibit it, it is easily weakened. Therefore I believe that diflucan inhibits the growth and replication of borrelia. It does not necessarily kill it. In addition, it penetrates well into the cells and into the nervous system and brain, where borrelia may hide.
JN: What is your current protocol?
FS: I recommend 200 milligrams a day, for 50 days. There are now 200 milligram pills available, so once a day is fine. Then I recommend 20- 30 days of any of the penicillins I mentioned. You may have to go through several cycles of this protocol. You must also be very aware of other drugs that act on the p450 enzyme system, specifically a subset that inhibits CYP3A4. You should not be taking any of these drugs at the same time as you take diflucan.
JN: What are some of these drugs?
FS: There are many, and it's best to check with your doctor. Some common ones are erythromycin, amitryptylin, midazolam, Lovastatin, and others.
JN: I hate antibiotics. Do you have to take the penicillin?
FS: I understand, many lyme patients come to hate antibiotics because they have to take so many of them for so many years and are still ill. In fact, I also was made ill by the antibiotics.
JN: They really disrupt your digestion.
FS: Right, that was my problem.
JN: So, this protocol is your best one-two punch against borrelia, but you don't have to take the antibiotics if you truly hate them.
FS: Right. In addition, diflucan has a slow half-life so it can slowly build up in your bloodstream. Sometimes patients call me after a few weeks and say they are feeling very ill on the protocol. Perhaps it's a herxheimer, or perhaps it's that the levels of diflucan are higher than they can tolerate. So I say, take a 3 or 4 day pause, and then go back on the protocol. This is perfectly acceptable.
JN: What happens if you have a weak p450 system? Have any of your patients have raised liver enzymes from the diflucan?
FS: I have been lucky, not one of my patients have had raised enzymes. It is generally well tolerated. If it is a problem, however, you can lower the dose of diflucan. This would be overseen by your doctor. I recommend 100 milligrams in pediatric cases.
JN: How many patients have you treated now?
FS: At least eighty.
JN: What is the most difficult case you've had?
FS: I have one 75-year-old patient who has had lyme for 18 years. He was very ill. He has had to do this cycle of diflucan and penicillin 3 times. He is much, much better. In fact, he's so happy with his improvement he called the drug manufacturer to tell them they need to run a publicity campaign to promote diflucan for chronic lyme disease.
JN: Some patients on some internet groups are adapting your protocol, probably in concert with their doctors, and I'd like to know what you think of this. They are suggesting staying on diflucan for 9 months, and some of them are adding in low-dose minocycline. Are you aware of this?
FS: No, I am not aware of this. JN: What do you think of the idea? FS: I believe in the narrow-spectrum penicillins for borrelia, not the cyclines.
JN: What about 9 months?
FS: That remains to be seen. Perhaps, like tuberculosis, some patients will need to be on diflucan at least six months or more. Borrelia is a very sophisticated organism, and one of the few bacterium with two cell membranes. There is much we still have to learn about it. (c) Jill Neimark, 2005.
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