posted
Anyone do the baths of H2O2? Or better yet, push some peroxide?
I was reading an infusion protocol that some doc was offering to his patients involving a 30% solution of Hydrogen peroxide.
I've been "mainlining" it for about a week now. I noticed that straight outta of the bottle, it's only 3%.
So I was pushing about 10 ml's of it diluted w/ sterile saline so it was about 1.5% for the first 2 days.
Then I moved up to almost pure 3% and increased to up to 50 ml's at a time. Or maybe even 75 ml's. I lost count of how many overfilled 5ml syringes I pushed....around 10-12?
I definitely felt something going on...like having effervesence in your blood. Slight stinging near the piccline entrance site on my skin.
I know it's for detoxing purposes mainly, but do you think it's -cidal or -static to the bacteria as well?
Anyone have positive effects?
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
It's very effective for killing viruses and also used in alternative cancer therapy. There is
also a food grade kind of a much higher strength. I don't believe you are supposed to ingest the
type you buy in the drug store for cuts and stuff. Many alternative doctors give IV peroxide drips.
With regard to Lyme the spirochete is anaerobic an cannot live in oxygenated environments.
I would not advise doing this without the benefit of medical supervision.
There used to be a yahoo group on the subject but I've long lost track of it.
I'm sure you can find others on line, too.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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lymeHerx001
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Member # 6215
posted
I think its a terrible idea. It would kill your own cells as well as everything else.
It will oxodize everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i don't know much about it but i'm terrified about putting something in my veins except my blood, or saline i guess.
to me, that stuff is toxic
guess 'm a coward, but no way....
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
A friend of mine in California had this done a few yrs ago. It cancelled out all of his psychiatric meds and he ended up in the hospital.
I consider myself very open minded, but I really think this could be a very risky thing to do. Another possible side effect could be septic shock.
James, I wish you would consider another alternative, I think you're playing with fire,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Hi James, who ordered your PICC to be put in, was the purpose for antibiotics? Surely it is not your LLMD who recommended this at home. They would have every reason to have your PICC pulled if they knew you were doing this. It would be malpractice on their part and non compliance on yours. You have responsibilities too.
They can assume you are mainlining other things too.
Please think carefully, not all ingredients are listed on labels, hydrogen peroxide may contain tin and phosporous.It is a corrosive. And you need a micron filter to infuse. Is it sterile saline or bacteriostatic saline? Are you aware you can get an air embolism or particle embolism? And as Gael said sepsis?
I know we all want to get well and sometimes it involves alternative treatments, but I agree with Gael you are playing with fire.
I have been fighting this crippling disease for 20 years!
I already said I took abxnomore's advice and am going w/ the foodgrade peroxide.
I GOT MY FOODGRADE PEROXIDE ALREADY AND AM CONTINUING it's use, along with MANY Lyme patients in CAnada etc..!
No way Am I gonna tell YOU where I got it. Why would I tell you ANY personal info?!
Why the heck would you say such crap? Air and particle embolisms? God! You obviously have heard too many blown up stories.
I have permanent nerve damage and they want to cut me off of my abx!!
I'm trying to buy Rocephin from Foreign pharmacies cuz my insurance wont pay for it!
I NEED...I cant even beleive you could ask such a question. This is Lymenet.com isn't it?
IV infusions od foodgrade Hydrogen peroxide is a VERY VALID TX!
Who are you to judge me?...assume im "mainlinig" other things too?!
Yeah, like I'm gonna tell you who ordered my piccline?! God!
I am fully aware of the risks!
The WORST RISK OF ALL is sitting on my hands like my insurance company and the rest of this evil healthcare system!
Non-comliance on my part?! How dare you?!
Take your opinions away from my threads please. You are of no help!
You need about 5 cc's of air b4 you are in danger of an air emoblism. Get your info straight, and dont judge people!
Who the heck do you think you are?!
"CAncelled out" all his Psychiatric meds? What the heck doe sthat mean? Nothing. It hasn't "cancelled out" any of MY psych meds. (Med.: Diazepam.). It's tried and true. Youre just naieve.
I'll leave you all a message when I'm cured!
By the way, I think the peroxide was helping alot. I felt alot better after a few days.
Look at what abxnomore said...it's legit and correct. Foodgrade peroxide is used by Dr's.
Un-believeable!
[ 03-02-2009, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: James Marschner ]
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
If peroxide is so poisonous...why do Dr's infuse it into Lyme patients?
YOU THINK HYDROGEN PEROXIDE IS POISONOUS? Let me "fill" u in: ANTIBIOTICS ARE POISIONOUS AS WELL. They are just LESS toxic to normal healthy cells and WAY MORE TOXIC to bacteria.
WHy do you think some abx cause kidney damage. liver damage...why do you think plaquenil causes eye damage?...The list goes on and on.
A dilute solution of peroxide is NOt gonna hurt you! When you take a bath in it...it gets absorbed directly into your blood stream thru your skin anyway....so why not take small amts and put in directly in your blood stream? WHY? Cuz of a little particluate matter? You're gonna have to do better than that.
No wonder you're all still sick. Too afraid to do anything to help yourself.
This healthacre system IS NOT helping Lymies.
We have to educate ourselves and fend for ourselves.
How do you think IV drug user's do what they do and and DONT end up in the hospital from "air emobolisms and "particle embolisms"?
You dont think IV Rocephin has fine particulate matter in it? Of course it does!
Wake up! Ive done it and I'm feeeling Great!
People like you just kill me.
Keep your uneducated opinions to yourself.
[ 03-02-2009, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: James Marschner ]
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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The health care police gonna come to my house and drag me off kicking and screaming? Idiot.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
NURSES! Boo! Think you know everything. You dont.
I ahve a Master'sdegree in human physiology and clinical cytogenetics.
I dont want to lose another 20 YEARS, of my life to this disease and I'm not afraid to use my head and try things that aren't common.
Most "common" physicians told me I didnt even have Lyme for 1/2 my life, while I was actually rotting away from just that!
So I'm gonna listen to some ultra conservative, beleieve-all-the-propaganda nurse?
Boo!
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
James,
I wasn't judging you at all. I don't believe anyone mentioned anything about an embolism.
It was sepsis( a serious bacterial infection) that was mentioned which can come from using unsterile objects such as an unsterile peroxide bottle etc.
If you google intravenous peroxide you will see that there has been some serious problems and even a death from it.
I didn't even know you had a picc-line. When you say things like mainlining, it can be alarming.
BTW, I am on the salt/c (sea salt) protocol which is not popular on lymenet but it has saved my life. So I am and have been fending for myself for a long time.
I have been misdiagnosed like you have for over 25 yrs, so I "get" where you're coming from.
It is okay for people here on lymenet to give their opinions, what's not okay is for you to call people names.
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
James. I am sorry you are so angry at my post and I apoligize. I didn't not mean to insinuate you personally are using the PICC for mainlining anything not prescribed. Other then H2O2. And you did state this on a public forum.
I am not judging you, just concerned of the possible danger of this therapy without LLMD or or naturopath guiding you.
I am not stupid and I do not need to wake up. I perfectly understand the need and want to get better and to do what it takes.
No the PICC police are not coming to your house.
And I do not doubt your intelligence and drive to get well.
I don't want or care of the name of your doctor or anything else related to your PICC or protocals. I am going to PM you the rest of what I was trying to say. Grace
Posts: 113 | Registered: Jun 2002
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I didn't read all of the posts but it didn't seem to help me. I did it for several months 1-2 times a week.
It just gave me headaches.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
James your right. Im as frustrated as you. Im in pain every day and extreeme situations lead to extreme measures and peroxide seems better then alot of other crap out there that they do.
Good luck. And I hope you wish me the same.
lymeHerx (guess where I got my name from)
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
James your right. Im as frustrated as you. Im in pain every day and extreeme situations lead to extreme measures and peroxide seems better then alot of other crap out there that they do.
Good luck. And I hope you wish me the same.
lymeHerx (guess where I got my name from)
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
I did IV Hydrogen Peroxide and it didnt do a thing.
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posted
I did IV vitamin C and hydrogen peroxide, through a PICC, under the guidance of the LLMDs I worked with. This happened several years ago. It certainly was not a miracle cure, even combined with oral antibiotics. I cannot say it didn't cause me to herx, looking back (night terrors), but I'm inclined to believe it was the Vitamin C (70+ grams) if anything at all. It certaimly was no magic bullet - today I will say I am better than I was during the downward spiral before my diagnoses and treatment (with a number of potent prescription drugs, and minor supplemental support), but this is not a treatment that is worth endangering yourself over! The LLMD who prescribed it to me let me know it was experimental, and the new LLMD I just spoke with thinks it has NO measurable benefit in most patients.
In short, get a physician to monitor you if you are sure you want to do this There are docs that do this. Understand it is an unproven, experimental treatment. Understand the risks.
Posts: 690 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
James your right. Im as frustrated as you. Im in pain every day and extreeme situations lead to extreme measures and peroxide seems better then alot of other crap out there that they do.
Good luck. And I hope you wish me the same.
lymeHerx (guess where I got my name from)
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
lymeHerx001,
Have either of you tried the salt/c protocol? I have been doing this for 2 1/2 yrs and it is knocking these infections out. I started doing this out of my own pain and frustration.
I use sea salt since it is a natural broad spectrum antibiotic. Just thought I would mention it since you and James are so understandably frustrated.
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
No worries guys. Gace too...I can tell you all know and understand my frustrations.
I AM just using everything in my little brain that I can POSSIBLY think of. Trying to use my knowledge of medicine and human physiology to give me an "edge" over this disease.
Like I said...I was bitten when I was probably 5 yrs old....had weird weight loss appetite suppression at that time (5 y/o.). Parents took me to the hosptal b/c of my morbid physical condition.
I looked like I should have been standing next to Sally Struthers w/ flies crawling all over me...I was so horribly underweight. I REFUSED to eat too. I just WAS NOT hungry??? At that young age...appetite suppression is NOT from psych stuff, cuz I hadn't learned about social phobias etc... at that age. IT WAS SOMETHING PHYSICAL.
I was HORRIBLY nervous and under-weight all my life, then when I reached 18-19 y/o, I began getting night sweats...or at least NOTICING them, along w/ Chronic diarrhea. I'm talking cholera-like, rice-water diarrhea!
So bad in fact, that I developed fairly bad hemorrhoids by the age of 19-20.
All my family. fiends, Dr's brushed it off as diet, or something else?? Fact was NO ONE CARED enough to figure it out for me.
I was functional, so no one did any investigating.
Then whe I was 22 I think, I was driving in a car home on a road trip from a college and I had been drinking the night B4. I got SO CAR SICK AND DIZZY, I had to make my friend pull over and let me drive. This helped a little, but every since, IVE NEVER BEEN THE SAME. MOTION SICKNESS...terrible dizziness that was really crippling.
Then, When I was about 25-26 cluster headaches started...(Bartonella?). Then around 27...night sweats were so bad, I started sleepiing with bath towels. I'd wake up sevral times during the night....SOAKED.
ALL through this, I was crippled w/ horrible anxiety that left me basically an introvert with hardly any friends. Struggling to avoid EVERY type of social situation...but CRAVING human contact. I tried to use alcohol as a crutch for this anxiety...but couldn't tolerate alcohol atfer age 30 or so. I'd get hang-overs that would last for DAYS! Plus the sickening dizziness.
Basically, what I'm getting at is : I've lost my ENTIRE life of 38 years (Except for the first say 5 years as a baby that I dont even remember anyway.)
At this point...getting a TINY taste of relief from 5 weeks of IV Rocephin...atfer 2.5 years of the triple combo ORAL ABX...I will try and DO ANYTHING I have to, to try and get my FIRST TASTE of HUMAN EXISTENCE.
My Insurance Company cut me off of teh IV Rocephin....after 3 weeks of being off it , and on only orals again....I started to relapse back to where I was B4 that SHORT, MILD course of IV Rocephin.
I will and AM doing ANYTHING & EVRYTHING to get back on the IV's....I REFUSE to REMOVE MY PICC-LINE! REFUSE! B/c I have started paying out-of-pocket for IV Rocephin and its costing me $523/week for it!!!!! Plus I havent been able to work for over 1 year. IM BROKE! IM 38 and I live w/ my Mother now. I lost my career in cytogenetics. I lost my fiance of 9 years, I lost my apartment (Evicted.), I lost EVERYTHING! Basically I was living a sick lie to begin with.
Whats it like to be alive?
I dont know yet? I've had small tastes of it and imagine it's GREAT!
38 y/o and I havent lived a REAL day in my life!
DRUGS have been my only sanctuary. They at leats give me a FALSE sense of human existence.
My insurance pays for Hydrocodone & Fentanyl, but NOT IV ABX! They'll pay for me to mask my illness...but NOT CURE IT.
Sorry, but I'm gonna use every "lunatic fringe" Tx I can come up with.
At this point ive got NOTHING to lose...cuz I've never really been alive.
SO, Im sorry if I come off grouchy when someone talks to me...let's just say, talks to me like that.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Pain...agony...horrid discomforts. The most fundamental human comforts have NEVER been within my reach.
Ive always had to work twice as hard as I normally would for EVERYTHING. From my education...to playing sports in school (Always in TREMENDOUS pain and fatigue tring to play football and baseball as a child. Now I know why.)...to simply talking to girls.
I still managed to get as far as my master's degree in Biology and a post-grad certification in Clinical cytogenetics.
I imagine what I could accomplish...what I could have accomplished if I wasnt hindered...bound...disabled...1/2 tied up from this disease and it makes me cry.
My fiance left me b/c she flat out says that she just couldn't handle living w/ me anymore. I'm like the ULTIMATE CAPTAIN BRING-DOWN.
If I EVER reach a cure....My God!...I can't/won't even attempt to articulate it here. It will be a dream without boundries. A dream w/o any basis of standards. I have NO MEMORIES of REAL life...so I cant even dream about being healthy, cuz I don't know what that is?
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I think of all the Dr's I saw AFTER the first Dr. Dx'd me by interpretation of an IgeneX WB.
All of them telling me ANGRILY: -"Youre being taken for a ride!"
- "You don't have Lyme disease! The Chances are SOOOO remote, it's RIDICULOUS! Don't believe this quack of a Dr!".
SO many Dr's! I want to look them all back up...make another appt w/ them, then BEAT THE LIVING **** OUTTA THERE SORRY ASSES!!!!
I have NO respect for the knowledge of the avg. MD. When I talk to them. I end up speaking Technical Lyme jargon to them and they just get MAD! MAd b/c I know more than they do. THAT sickens me.
It sickens me b/c their sad little pride is more important to them than MY LIFE! The life of one of their patient's.
Further, I don't believe many Medical Schools teach their students very well anymore. I believe most Dr's just SQUEAK by and forget most of the knowledge they're SUPPOSED to retain.
I remember many of the actual questions (And the answers.) on my Biochemistry 315 & Cell Biology 417 Final exams from back in 1994-1995. And I have 1/2 my brain riddled with at least 2 kinds of bacteria...eating away at it.
What the HELL is their excuse!?
SORRY- This sort of talk should be under "Support" or off topic. And YES! I DO WISH YOU ALL LUCK IN YOUR PERSONAL BATTLES WITH MICROBIAL INFECTIONS.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
James,
I am soooo sorry you have been through so much in your young life. I and many others can really relate to the horrors of what you are going through. Your posts made me want to cry.
I too have basically lost 25 of the best yrs of my life that's why I can relate to your pain. When I was on IV rocephin about 6 yrs ago, my insurance only paid for 1 mos.
I don't know if it's still available, but I was able to get the rocephin through a needy meds program from the drug co.
I think there is a post here for generic rocephin also that is much cheaper.
I really believe that parasites/worms are a MAJOR part of this disease. This is what came pouring out of me an many other people.
If you need any help or info, let me know. WISHING YOU HEALING & PEACE
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
The 3% hydrogen peroxide you buy at any store is not a good one to use in your body or even soaking in it.. Way too many preservatives in it. You need to buy restaurant grade... H2O2. That's what I was told by the Dr. who did them in Texas.
Posts: 383 | From Ar | Registered: May 2007
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
External application- O.K.,
Ingest? Only small amounts & needs to be that "food grade", not that it'll do much good as far as lysing 'ketes deep in tissues.
Inject? ABSOLUTELY NOT! It can be fatal due to oxygen bubbles getting into the brain & causing strokes! And that's not All, but I won't get into it. Want to oxegenate your blood safely? Exercise. Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
Theres a doctor in raleigh NC who does this I think. Apparently he follows the Bradford protocol.
It is intriguing --but i couldn't really get my lymebrain to understand the articles i read.
can someone clarify in simple terms why this treatment may help?
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I was on combination IV vitamin C (70+ grams)and hydrogen peroxide, on alternating days during the beginning of my treatment. It is no magic bullet, that's for sure, and you do NOT want to use basic off-the-shelf solution, ever.
There is very, very limited and controversial evidence for IV hydrogen peroxide to work in any circumstances that would be related to lyme patients. If you still wish to do so, please be sure to find a LLMD who will directly supply and monitor your treatment.
Posts: 690 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
is it safe to do the baths? a doc told me to use hydrogen peroxide/baking soda baths for chemical removal
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
kelly- I'll Betcha this fellow patient was experiencing something beyond "herxing".
m0joey- baths w/ some H2O2 are perfectly safe.
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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