(I don't sell this product. I am going to try the NDF Plus when I get my liver in better shape. I can't tell anyone if it works or if it's a good system.)
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I used NDF and then NDF plus years ago. This was after I had all my merc fillings taken out. This is before I knew I had lyme and co. It was extremely harsh for me. I finally stopped.Very strong stuff. So go slow until you know how your body will do. I started with 1 half drop.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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lymeparfait
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How far into the treatmet was it for you when you first started feeling the "harsh" symptoms?
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SForsgren
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5-7 days for me
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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sixgoofykids
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I was sick with a cold when I started, so I already had some bad symptoms. So for me, it just felt like I never pulled out of the cold fatigue. My worst symptom is fatigue, with some acheyness.
The big question is, when do these symptoms start to let up?
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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SForsgren
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Probably different for everyone and probably has as much to do with how much the practitioner is supporting the detox and metal removal. Weeks or months depending.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I was already not feeling well when I started.4 days after starting protocal, symptoms started to get worse. Then there is symptoms from lyme and co.I am extremely exhausted and feel like I am drugged,among pain.One good thing is my anxiety is way better.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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sparkle7
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There's alot of info on the BioRay site about detox in general. If you've had fillings for a long time - it's probably going to take a while to get the mercury out of your system.
According to the BioRay site - almost everything has some mercury in it - even cucumbers & other veggies, chlorella, etc. I think I read recently that fructose or corn syrup has alot of mercury.
It's really tricky with all of this. Seems like this detox is going to be a lifelong process which ever way you go. Heavy metals & mercury are everywhere.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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May I politely ask if KPU was not a significant issue for you, why are you dong a protocol for it? Just curious--not slamming you.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10175 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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sixgoofykids
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For those of you on the protocol .... I did a Hulda Clark liver cleanse and feel much, much better. I was hoping it would help, but it helped more than I had hoped for. This was my first time doing the cleanse. Not to get off topic ..... just wanted to let you know in case it might help you.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Cass A
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posted
Dear Friends,
A very good friend of mine who has done a lot of research on alternative medical issues wrote a long article some years ago about ZINC being a major factor in post partum depression and many other psychiatric problems, including schizophenia.
HOWEVER, taking a large dose of Zinc suddenly, instead of ramping up very slowly, can cause very, very, very serious reactions!!!!!
There is a liquid you can take to test your own zinc situation. It's called ZINC STATUS from Ethical Nutrients. The directions are on the bottle.
It also can give you a very SLOW way to move up with Zinc instead of banging up to 250 mgs right away!
Hope this helps!
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymeparfait
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Six, did you stop your KPU protocol to do the cleanse? And was this the two day version or the longer H.C. cleanse.
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sixgoofykids
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I didn't take the KPU protocol on the day I began the cleanse, but I started right back on it when I could start eating again the second day, so I only missed one day. It was the two day cleanse .... the one that you start on day and finish the next morning.
I'm still feeling great after the cleanse. Amazing.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Six -- That is great news, I'm very happy for you. You may want to plan another in a couple of weeks unless you feel this cleanse did it all. You'll know if you feel worse in a couple of weeks. whether to do another. Sometimes some of remaining, I call it sludge moves from the back of the liver forward and again clogs things up. I did four and feel I'm completely cleansed of all liver issues.
Since I've cleared the liver, I test a strong need for magnesium and candida killers and lots of photons. Keep the idea of magnesium supplementation after you feel the liver is clear.
Good information about zinc Cass. I find a more natural way of increasing zinc is pumpkin seeds. I get papitas from a nut store close by, I grind them up in a coffee grinder and take two tablespoons in my cereal in the morning. You could also use it in a salad as well. Pumkin seeds are naturally high in zinc content, several other important nutrients and fiber.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sixgoofykids
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Thanks, Bob. I plan on doing another in two weeks. I won't wait a day longer as I can't wait to do it! I had an unbelievable amount of stuff come out, much like you had described to me only all peas, no grapes.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Six -- Because of energetic testing I found using bile salts (also thanks to Sparkle for having me look into it further) after you've complete the cleanses helps to rebuild bile in the liver. There have been studies showing that when bile is normalized in the liver it sanitizes the small intestines to the right amount of flora. Bile is the secret to reducing candida in the small intestines. Once candida is removed from the small intestines the large intestines have a greater chance to rebalance its flora as well. It could make probiotics much more effective especially progurt.
When I have time I'll post studies but it would probably be best in a new thread.
An interesting thing about bile, it helps metabolize fats and proteins as energy to be used by the body. If there is too little well where does the energy come from. But another fascinating thing about bile, it doesn't just leave the body, if the small intestine is totally rebuilt the bile is removed and recycle back to the liver. So bile is recycle all the time at about 95 per cent. So, by using bile salts, you rebuild the bile function of the liver over time.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sixgoofykids
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Where do you get bile salts?
Interestingly enough, I don't have candida issues.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sparkle7
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posted
Sorry for the hyjack....
You can get them on the internet or at a vitamin store. I haven't tried them yet since the store had to order them. I have to go back there to pick them up. Glad it's working Bob...
-----
Bile Acid Factors (333mg) Description from JARROW
Bile Acid Factors consists of a mixture of highly concentrated bile acids (also called bile salts), mostly in the conjugated form, from U.S. and/or New Zealand bovine/ovine bile.
-Bile acids are produced in the liver and then stored and concentrated in the gallbladder, from which they enter the small intestines via the bile duct.
The major bile components in Bile Acid Factors are glycocholate and taurocholate, which are crucial for fat digestion and absorption.
-In the small intestine, bile acids emulsify fats to aid their absorption. Bile acid deficiency causes fat malabsorption and fatty stools (steatorrhea), indicated by diarrhea and floating stools. In addition, bile acid deficiency jeopardizes a person's nutritional status by reducing the absorption of fat and fat-soluble nutrients.
-Conjugated bile acids have been shown in clinical trials to be effective in improving fat absorption and nutritional status.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Cass A
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Dear Friends,
Wow! This really is a fascinating thread!!
With Scott pointing the way, I did some research today on kryptopyrroluria and its handlings. Googling pyrole and manganese brought up some great info!
As for the current twist of this thread, to bile and digestion, according to my LLMD, the simplified 5 methylation factors plus chlorella are to help with bile production, so that the gunk actually gets OUT of the body!
I have taken bile in the past--perhaps I'll do it again, as part of the detox!
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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sixgoofykids
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Scott, you mentioned an immune activation phase. Will this include feeling like you have a virus?
I am feeling tired, have a sore throat, and a little post nasal drip. Since I've already had the latest cold that went around, I'm wondering if this has to do with the immune system kicking in.
I also had my babesia flare a little with a sweat last night and some minor air hunger today. I have had no air hunger in about a month, and no sweats for several months. Right now I just can't wait to go back to bed .... and I've been feeling really good the past week or so.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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SForsgren
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As I understand, it can include fevers and fluish like feelings as the immune system starts to improve and addresses backlogged infections. I've been on it for six weeks - have observed much more metal and toxin issues requiring binders, but have not had any clear immune activation yet.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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sixgoofykids
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Yes, I'm feeling fluish and feverish, though I have not taken my temp. I think my immune system is activating .... I don't feel like metals are being released, though I did before .... I'll keep up with the binders, but this feels more like the fluish, immune stuff.
My LLMD always thought I reacted to any herbs/meds he gave me (or my daughter) much, much quicker than the norm. At one appt. he kept telling us that over and over .... "You are not the norm." It was like he really wanted us to understand that, so it does not surprise me that I'm reacting to this treatment so fast.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sixgoofykids
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Immune activation also fits from the healing reaction theory perspective. I felt really, really good and was thinking that the toxin release from this treatment had ended.
Typically a healing reaction kicks in when you're feeling your best because the body is strong enough to handle it. Fun.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I had a babs flare detected in the brain. I'm not sure if this is related to KPU. It may have been related to emotions, because no other treatment (ozone, photons, rife, all supps) tested positive for it besides UV irradiation.
This is the first time an infection has come up in several weeks.
Maybe related to both.
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sixgoofykids
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What's UV irradiation? Tanning?
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sparkle7
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I think he means removing the blood & exposing it to UV - then, putting it back into the body.
BTW - just found out the having a parasite called liver flukes can clog up the bile ducts... for what that's worth.
I think parasites are very under recognized in our culture...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sixgoofykids
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I've actually been passing parasites with the KPU treatment. It's exciting every time I go to the bathroom, lol. I haven't even started the Humaworm yet .... starting that this weekend.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Man I have yet to see parasites in the toilet. Maybe I'm not looking closely enough...
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sixgoofykids
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Oh ..... you couldn't miss mine if you tried ..... yeah, some of the smaller ones could pass for food .... but the bigger ones (like a 12 in worm) need help exiting.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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karenl
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I am so happy about this post. I thought I am the only one with this condition. Need more time to study all the great links. Karen
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sparkle7
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Good to see you have a sense of humor about it, six... Most people are terrified. I guess you get used to the idea after a while. I'm going to start a thread about it... to not hyjack this one.
I think most people have one or another parasite. When you get Lyme - it just tips the balance & it becomes an issue.
I don't know why people here in the US feel they are not affected.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
six--this would be your second round of humaworm right? Have you tried MMS?
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sixgoofykids
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This will be my third. One of the theories of KPU treatment is the parasites will let go after the balance is restored .... which I'm finding out already. I actually test well for Humaworm, so I'm going to give it a try.
I was also getting good results from Triphala, so I think I'll continue on that one afterward. I'm not on anything now except for support for the KPU.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sixgoofykids
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Sparkle, how can I not have a sense of humor about it .... it's either that or throw up. (My BIL who does not have Lyme did the latter when he saw his worms, LOL)
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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ping
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quote:Originally posted by SForsgren: Good question. Don't know. Dr. K generally won't even see patients that still have amalgams so for most, this is a very first step of treatment.
Interesting that Dr. K. has taken this position. I'm reading his info. and it says to begin detox and "as the amalgams are removed", have the dentist apply chlorella on the tooth area and hold it there for 10 minutes, etc...
I'm confused now.
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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SForsgren
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It is such an important aspect of treatment for most people, that Dr. K doesn't invest in patients that still have amalgams. He generally has them go off and do the basic required work and then come back to work with him once that is done. I am sure there are exceptions.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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ping
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quote:Originally posted by SForsgren: It is such an important aspect of treatment for most people, that Dr. K doesn't invest in patients that still have amalgams. He generally has them go off and do the basic required work and then come back to work with him once that is done. I am sure there are exceptions.
Understand, and with as many pts as K no doubt is seeing, it's wise. I was just concerned that I read things incorrectly, but evidently it's okay to begin detox, even if you still have amalgams.
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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SForsgren
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Answer is yes and no. Some agents are acceptable and others are clearly not acceptable if you still have amalgams. Your doctor should be able to help with that.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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ping
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My Dr. really has no idea about detox; that's why I'm following Dr. K's protocol. Figure after the P&B shake, I'll start Chlorella without the cilantro for a while and am on a high protein regimen. Will add cilantro very gradually, on Chlorella is at full dose.
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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SForsgren
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Following the protocol when you don't fully understand it is unwise. I would find a doctor that can help you. If you go to a mechanic that does not know how to change oil, you find someone that can.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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ping
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Appreciate the heads-up, but no Doc available in my area. Tried to get RN via recommendation from Dr. K. who does phone counseling, but no return call as yet.
Doesn't sound like anyone completely understands these protocols, else so many questions wouldn't be flying around. Figure I'm pretty much on my own, just like most everyone else here.
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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sixgoofykids
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I've definitely hit the immune activation part - body aches, sore throat, upset stomach, weakness, runny nose, etc. I guess I'm making progress?
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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great to hear you're having good results! mind if I ask how much EPO or borage you're taking?
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sixgoofykids
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The results don't feel so good right now!!
I'm taking 3000 mg. of EPO.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Haha you know what I mean. We have twisted ideas of what feels good when you don't remember what feeling good feels like.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sparkle7
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ping - There are people here doing it on their own. You are not the only one.
Natropathic doctors are illegal in the state where I live. They can be sentenced to 1 year in prison & a $500 fine if people are caught practicing Natropathic medicine - with or without a license. The state will not issue licenses to anyone for this type of practice.
I also do not have alot of money to spend on this sort of thing in any case. I just try to do the best I can without alot of doctoring from an MD.
Keep up with it, six... I hope you will get through being in the trenches soon. I'm going through my own particular hell today. I do think I'm improving, though. I may want to try this protocol in time if I test for it.
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sixgoofykids
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Yeah, I know what you mean! I know it's a good thing. I feel like I have a virussoup .... every virus I've ever had kind of thing. I know it's good that my immune system is kicking in .... but I have to keep reminding myself of that.
Hubby and I are talking about taking some of our kids to Chicago to be tested by the Pfeiffer Clinic. That's the closest I can find. I fit the genetic profile and so do many of my relatives, so this answers a lot of questions for us. I think it's worth having my kids tested. My teenage son was thrilled to hear there might be something natural to help with his anxiety.
But as it is now, I'm doing this on my own. For me, I'm willing to take the risk. But for my kids, who are relatively healthy but show the pyroluria symptoms, I want to have them tested and their treatment overseen by a physician. We all have to weigh the risk/benefit of self-treatment. I understand Scott's concern, but some of us do it anyway on our own.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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SForsgren
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Any doctor can order the tests.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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I had an unbelievable amount of stuff come out, much like you had described to me only all peas, no grapes.![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
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