posted
Fortunately this is one symptom that hubby does not have. If I had this problem I think I would be looking for a Chinese herbalist after reading the article below.
Actually while I was researching I did find 4 or 5 Chinese herbalists who use herbs (mostly the Buhner protocol) plus acupuncture to treat Lyme disease.
Chinese Medicine and Diabetic Peripheral Neuropathy
By Bob Flaws, LAc, FNAAOM (USA), FRCHM (UK)
Peripheral neuropathy, also known as polyneuropathy or peripheral neuritis, is a disease usually secondary to collagen vascular diseases such as systemic lupus erythmatosus (SLE), scleroderma and rheumatoid arthritis (RA).
It is also secondary to metabolic diseases such as diabetes, or to infectious agents such as Lyme disease.
In diabetes, symptoms of neuropathy may precede other symptoms of carbohydrate and vascular abnormalities. As many as 60-90% of patients with diabetes suffer from peripheral neuropathy; however, modern Western medicine does not have any truly effective treatment for this condition.
One of the most common treatments of PN is the prescription of amitriptyline, frequently sold under the brand name Elavil. Amitriptyline is an antidepressant. Some of its side-effects include skin rashes; headache; dizziness; weakness; hepatitis; agitation; nightmares; nausea; fluctuations in blood sugar levels; heart palpitations; and even peripheral neuritis.1
Peripheral neuropathy is also commonly encountered in AIDS cases. Recent research published in the Journal of the American Medical Association suggests that amitriptyline is definitely not effective for that type of peripheral neuropathy.2
However, the Chinese medical descriptions of the pathophysiology of diabetes and AIDS are essentially the same, especially the Chinese description of peripheral neuropathy in both diseases.
This description also accounts for PN associated with SLE and Lyme disease and often (though not always) covers PN associated with rheumatoid arthritis and scleroderma.
The following is a report on a recently published study on the treatment of diabetic peripheral neuropathy with Chinese medicinals. In composing his protocol, the author assumes that most patients with diabetic PN present the Chinese medical pattern of qi and yin vacuity with vacuity heat complicated by blood stasis in the network vessels.
The title of the article (in English) is "The Use of Yi Qi Zhu Yu Tong Mai Tang (boost the qi, dispel stasis and free the flow of the vessels decoction) in the Treamtnet of Diabetic Peripheral Neuropathy." It was authored by Xu Sheng-sheng and published in Jiang Su Zhong Yi (Jiangsu Chinese Medicine) 1999, issue 3, p. 23.
Cohort Description
The study consisted of 118 patients, all of whom met the WHO's criteria for diabetes mellitus. Each patient also displayed varying symptoms of diabetic peripheral neuropathy, which included lower extremity tingling and numbness, formication, vague pain, piercing pain, burning pain and muscular loss of strength. In addition, patellar and Achilles reflexes were either weakened or absent.
Patients were divided into similar treatment and comparison groups. The treatment group consisted of 86 patients, 45 male and 41 female, and ranged in age from 31-76, with a median age of 50.6. Eighty-four patients were diagnosed with non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus (NIDDM); two were diagnosed with insulin dependent diabetes mellitus (IDDM).
Of the 32 patients in the comparison group, 18 were male and 14 female. The patients ranged in age from 29-74 with a median age of 52.8. Thirty-one patients were diagnosed with NIDDM; one had IDDM.
Treatment Method
In addition to dietary restrictions and sugar lowering medications (i.e., insulin), patients in the treatment group were given the following basic formula orally:
All except the final ingredient were decocted in water once per day and administered orally.
The hirudo was powdered and taken orally in gelatin capsules.
Twenty days of this regimen equaled one course of therapy.
The comparison group was administered 25mg of dipyridamole, 10mg of vitamin B1 and 20mg of vitamin B6 three times a day. Twenty days of this regimen likewise equaled one course of treatment.
Treatment Outcomes
Marked effect was defined as a marked improvement in, or disappearance of, self-conscious symptoms and either normal or markedly improved patellar and Achilles reflexes. Some effect meant reflected some improvement in both self-conscious symptoms and patellar and Achilles reflexes. No effect meant no improvement in self-conscious symptoms and no improvement in patellar and Achilles reflexes.
Based on these criteria, 41 patients in the treatment group (47.7%) were judged to have a marked effect; 38 patients (44.2%) received some effect; only seven patients (8/1%) failed to register an effect. The total amelioration rate in the treatment group was 91.9%.
In the comparison group, only two patients (6.3%) were judged to have experienced a marked effect. Nine patients (28.1%) received some effect; 21 patients (65.6%) did not register an effect. The total amelioration rate in the comparison group was only 34.4%; hence, there was a very marked difference in statistical outcomes between the two groups (P less than 0.005).
Author's Discussion
According to the study's author, diabetic peripheral neuropathy should be categorized as xue bi or blood impediment in Chinese medicine. While yin vacuity and dry heat are the basic disease mechanisms in diabetes, these do not just damage yin but also consume the qi. According to Chinese medical theory, if the qi becomes vacuous and weak, there will be no power to move the blood. Likewise, if there is yin vacuity, blood movement will also become difficult and choppy or astringent.
In addition, because enduring diseases enter the network vessels (i.e., the smallest vessels in the body), this results in static blood in the network vessels. Because the movement and transportation of qi and blood is not smooth and easy, static blood obstructs and stagnates. The muscles and flesh of the limbs lose their nourishment, resulting in numbness and insensitivity. If the stasis obstruction is marked, then lack of free flow leads to pain.
Based on the above ideas of Chinese pathophysiology, the author then states that the requisite treatment principles for remedying this situation are to boost the qi and nourish yin, dispel stasis and free the flow of the network vessels. Within self-composed yi qi zhu yu tong mai tang, astragalus, dioscorea, scrophularia, atractylodis (a.k.a. atractylis) and dipsacus nourish yin, boost the qi, and supplement and boost the spleen and kidneys.
Chaenomeles and gentiana soothe the sinews and free the flow of the network vessels. Achyranthes guides the other medicinals to move downward to the lower half of the body. Dang gui, red peony, moutan, persica, carthamus, pseudoginseng, lumbricus and hirudo are all strongly blood-quickening, stasis-dispelling medicinals, while lumbricus and hirudo in particular transform stasis and free the flow of the network vessels.
Hirudo's flavor is salty and its nature is cold. It enters the blood division and strongly dispels stasis. However, its nature is slow and relaxed (i.e., moderate); thus, it does not damage the righteous qi. It is used in this formula to eliminate deeply recalcitrant stasis accumulation.
Another medicinal the author singles out is pseudoginseng (a.k.a. notoginseng). According to the author, pseudoginseng has the ability to supplement vacuity. It is also able to quicken the blood and dispel stasis.
The author ends the article by saying that the patients in the study were treated with these medicinals for a long period of time and that no hemorrhagic symptoms or other adverse side-effects were seen during that time. Based on this formula's reported clinical efficacy and its freedom from side-effects, I think it is good to try for all PN patients whose Chinese medical pattern is (spleen) qi and (liver-kidney) yin vacuity complicated by blood stasis in the network vessels.
However, if the patient's pattern is not the one stated above, one should not use this formula as a generic treatment for PN. As I have stated previously, professional Chinese medicine bases its treatment on each patient's personal pattern, not on their disease diagnosis.
References
1. Long JW. The Essential Guide to Prescription Drugs 1990. New York: Harper and Row, 1990, p. 193. 2. Shlay JC, et al. Acupuncture and amitriptyline for pain due to HIV-related peripheral neuropathy. JAMA Nov. 11 1998, pp. 1590-1600.
All Rights Reserved, Acupuncture Today, 2009.
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I had great success using acupuncture to treat peripheral neuropathy that was induced by Flagyl -- the most horrible pain I have ever experienced!
I felt better after each treatment. My acupuncturist said in some cases they will actually bloodlet the fingertips.
I did not use herbs for it but I do think Chinese Medicine knows how to treat it better than Western medicine.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
seibert- This article seems to concentrate on diabetic victims. Is there any literature on Chinese herbs for treating peripheral neuropathy resulting from an 'infective agent's presence?
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Bea, Thanks for that article. This one looks interesting, too:
Neuroprotective Herbs and Active Constituents: Approaches to Preventing Degenerative Diseases
=======
'Kete-tracker, It might be interesting to research snake bites and see what comes up. Or botulism . . . or tetanus . . . . -
[ 04-03-2010, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Hey lady,
I wonder why no mention of PN being one of the medical conditions which occurs in verterans who were exposed to "Agent Orange" in Viet Nam...
These "Chinese Secrets" have been around for some long long time...however
...this protocol seems to be lengthly at best and very expensive,
what with alll those herbs one has to consume, with only a 50/50 chance of success...?
I doubt I would even bother...!
Of course there's always ("deep infrared ray)protocol that regenerates actual cells, and
of course aroma therapy or shaka therapy which may or may not be as cost effective as we would have liked...
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Perhaps this is not entirely comparable...but my husband had a double-dose of peripheral neuropathy from Lyme and chemotherapy (the latter depositing megadoses of platinum in his extremities).
I found a couple of articles in the diabetes literature on Acetyl-L-Carnitine, which did seem to keep the PN from progressing.
The other thing that seemed to help with the PN was chelation. He has not done anything heavy-duty yet; just Zeolite HP, but that seemed effective.
Hope this is not getting the thread off-track, but rather adding possibilities to consider for addressing PN.
Viva
Posts: 532 | From southeast US | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I should add the acupuncture not only *helped* my PN, it completely resolved it. I have not had PN symptoms since early Sept. or so. At its worst, I could not so much as touch a piece of paper without screaming pain shooting up through my arms, and water over my fingers felt like fire.
Probably my PN would have lessened over time any way since it was a bad drug reaction (to Flagyl). But I know it wasn't placebo as the relief from acupuncture was almost instantaneous and very quickly reduced the pain, which would creep up as I neared the next appointment, but each treatment made a difference.
PN can be so painful and I had read another article about using acupuncture for PN that supported its use.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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Quote form the article -- "This description also accounts for PN associated with SLE and Lyme disease and often (though not always) covers PN associated with rheumatoid arthritis and scleroderma."
It is my impression that the herbs are being used to help rebuild the nerves regardless of the cause of the PN. A Chinese herbalist should be able to answer your question more thoroughly.
The article does not mention such things as the good fats and phosphatidylcholine which also should help strengthen the nervous system.
From my experience with herbs I would assume that someone would continue on their antibiotics and or killing herbs while also taking the herbs above to treat the PN. You have to both kill the pathogen and rebuid the body.
Tony Z -- Yes that is a long list of herbs, but the suggested treatment period is only 20 days. As for the cost -- I have not priced the herbs listed, but a pound of many herbs might only cost $10 or so and would probably be more than was needed of each individual herb.
In the long run the cost would probably be a whole lot less than continuing on pain meds for months or years or doing just one IV IgG treatment for neuropathy.
Odds of 50/50 sound awful good to me. And besides another 44% had some improvement. I don't think I know of a single antibiotic, pain med, seizure med, psychotropic med etc that has a 50% success rate as far as tickborne patients are concerned.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Viva, Thanks for suggesting Acetyl-L-Carnitine and other things. It's all relevant here.
Some NDs or herbalists have these herbs all ready to put into a combined formula so that the patient does not have to do that. It saves from buying all the individual ingredients.
There are some places where you can buy some mixed formulas but I'm not sure of those right now.
You can contact the author if this book / site to find a source or have your formula mixed there - he has done this for me. Often, he will individualize a formula for what all is going on for me at that time. Cost is comparable and reasonable.
posted
This could be important info for us tormented by this.
To Sparkle7, did you receive tx for neuropathy by Dr. Flaws, was it successful?
Inspiring to see LymeCFIDSMCS comments about acupunture? How many sessions did you have? I see yours was caused by Flagyl, I won't/cannot take this for the PN risk since I already PN or some for of CNS sensory problems.
Can anyone confirm if the Chinese Herbs might also be effective for CNS (Central Nervous System) mediated pain?
Posts: 247 | From The Country | Registered: Oct 2007
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MariaA
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posted
Thje way that Chinese herb shops price herbs, they'll make a formula that's a certain number of packets of the mixed herbs (ie everythig on the list weighed out in the right proportions) and you make a tea out of each packet, use the herbs in the packet to make a second tea the next day, then throw them away and start over with a fresh packet. so it's not complicated.
They also sometimes make powdered formulas where the same herbs are given as a concentrate powder that you mix into hot water, or as capsules with all hte stuff already in one bottle.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I had CFS when I saw Dr. Flaws. It was probably about 20 years ago. I don't recall that it helped... I'm not saying that he isn't knowledgeable, though.
I really appreciate Chinese medicine but for me the results are pretty much something like a 30-40% effective rate for various illnesses.
I've gone to alot of different practitioners. I used to live near Chinatown in NYC. The old doctors were generally better than the younger ones. Some of them specialize in particular ailments, physical injuries, herbs, cupping & moxa, etc.
In general, those herbs taste really nasty... Some doctors have their own herbal pharmacy or you can bring your list to a pharmacy & they will make the formula up for you.
You're supposed to simmer them in a clay pot with a small spout - if it's the whole herb. If you live near a Chinatown - they usually don't charge alot.
That was a while ago...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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MariaA
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luckily there are now online chinese herb suppliers that can make up a formula that you send them, and it's also fairly cheap. I was looking at making up one for a different purpose and thought it was reasonably priced.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- As herbal medicine is so complex, It's really best to be under the care of a N.D. (naturopathic doctor), one who has four years of medical school, specifically in herbal medicine and the human body.
This is a very complex process, figuring out what each person needs - as even two people with what may seem like the same cold or flu may need very different formulas.
A good ND also knows the sources. Unfortunately, some herbs - just as some pharmaceuticals - can be fake. Many internet sources are quite good but it take a bit to learn how to know the quality sources. But there's much more to it than just that.
[Plum Flower; 1st Chinese Herb; Kaylx herbs; Seven Forests; Pine Mountain; White Tiger - just some of the top quality sources.]
It's far more complex than choosing over the counter products. And, when at all possible, it's good that the ND or the L.Ac. (acupuncturist) be LL and even ILADS-trained. Some are all of that. In some states, NDs are also licensed to prescribe pharmaceuticals such as antibiotics, etc.
By reading some of the books by NDs, one can get a sense of what is involved but it is nearly impossible to know all one should in order to be one's own ND or OMD (doctor of Oriental Medicine), or other similarly degreed titles assuring proper training.
For a sense of the education required for a naturopathic degree here's the site from one of the naturopathic colleges:
Excellent book explaining the nature of herbs, how they work, how the body works, etc. NOT about lyme (other than the page on Sarsaparilla's history) but a must-read for a basic understanding:
Not at all about lyme, but a very good site for articles about supplements or certain disorders and what nutritional support has been studied in that area.
Although they sell supplements their articles are well researched and provide plenty of 3rd party research, as noted in the citations provided for each article:
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