Hoosiers51
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Member # 15759
posted
I got my Doctor's Data test back for metals, and it came back high (it was in the "very elevated" or red range just barely) for mercury at 13 (normal is 4 or below). I took DMSA as a chelator.
My aluminum was "slighty elevated" at 58 (should be below 35) and my nickel was slightly elevated at 13 (should be 12).
Looking at the test though, Mercury seems to be the biggest issue. I have never had metal amalgams in my mouth.
None of the other metals came back high.
Soooo.....just wondering what you all did for these issues, so I can be "informed" before I listen to my LLMD's options for me.
I have a portable FIR sauna that I just got. I also have recently started taking chlorella every day.
So any other recommendations are welcome.
Also, this isn't related to the "toxic metals," but this same urine test from Doctor's Data came back with very high Copper and Chromium, and High Vanadium. (these fall under the "essential elements" category)
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Abxnomore
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There are many opinions about how to chelate metals and many different protocols. Cutler comes to mind but I can't remember the other names.
I would research them well because moving metals out of your system can cause big problems if it is not done properly.
First off, make sure that both phase 1 and 2 of liver detoxification are functioning optimally. Get those tested. If they are not, you will only dislodge the metals but won't be able to clear them out of your system, which will make you toxic and very sick.
I used IV Calcium EDTA to chelate out my metals. It took a long time. Also, I supplemented with Chlorella, Cilantro NAC, ALA, Garlic and, very high doses of vitamin C. I think but can't remember, that on the days I did chelation I didn't take the supplements but could be wrong.
I think it was somewhere around my third treatment that I was given a kidney clearance test to make sure every thing was working fine.
You will get many opinions on this. I was successful in eliminating mine heavy metal toxicity and since have put a very good water filtration system on my home water supply and also had all of my amalgams removed as well prior to chelation therapy.
I had elevated levels of lead, mercury, aluminum, nickel and cadmium.
Depending where you live, some areas have high levels of cooper in the ground and drinking water. I'm not too sure of the significance of this but I think it can play a role in making you fatigued. My friend had an issue with that once.
I do know she had well water.
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Leelee
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Member # 19112
posted
Hmmmm. I didn't ever give this much thought, but my LLMD did order a metal test on me last week b/c I have a lot of dental fillings.
We have well water, but we only drink bottled water. Prior to moving here a few years ago we were on city water.
Most of my fillings are old. I went through a stage in my teen/early adult years where I kept getting cavities, even though I have always been fanatical about keeping my teeth in good order.
This will be a good thread for me to learn from
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
I came back high (above 15) for mercury and lead. My doc uses Chelex from xymogen over a 9 month period initially then retest. I take the chelation tabs every two or three nights.
I also take chlorella daily as well as IV glutathione. I will see when I retest if this process works.
I only have 2 fillings and am only 29 so its very curious as to how I accumulated these metals. Probably poor detox and bad lifestyle.
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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Abxnomore
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posted
You accumulate metals from the environment and sometimes the foods you eat. The air you breath, the water you drink, it's in deodorants, baking powder, if you use a lot of aluminum foil to cook with, there a so many ways.
Fish is contaminated with lots of mercury, PCBS and lots of other stuff, farmed fish is equally unhealthy.
Make sure the Chlorella you use is a good as it can contain metals. Sun Chlorella is usually thought to be the best but I am sure there are other brands that are good.
We live in a toxic environment. We breath all kinds of industrial solvents and waste, gasoline fumes, etc. And those two fillings you have, have been leeching gases and mercury into your system since you got them.
You probably should have them replaced with a non mercury type substance as they will keep leeching mercury into your body so there is no sense in detoxing if you have them in your mouth. Vaccines are a source of mercury, too. Do you get flu vaccines?
There's lead and all kinds of bad stuff in cosmetics. It's almost impossible not to accumulate heavy metals in the world we live in.
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I was told not to get them out. I located a holistic dentist who could do it. My doc said unless you are feeling "fantastic" (which has not been for a long time) to not get them out.
If my levels or mercury are still the same on retest I will consider getting them out.
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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mojo
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Member # 9309
posted
My LLMD tested my metals with a hair test and a urine challenge. I had my amalgams removed by a biological dentist and had an IV the same day to support my body. My dentist and Lyme Dr. worked toghter on this. Then I did the urine challenge.
I did IV cheation after that for a few months (DMPS) followed by another urine challenge. Then after a year we tested again and did more IV's then another urine challenge.
I've been taking chlorella for almost three years and it's something I'll probably always take.
I also use an Infra Red Sauna for 40 minutes at 135 degrees three or four times per week.
I would say that the best way to go about this is to work with a qualified dr. or NP.
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posted
Yeah I have seen all of the videos on heavy metal poisoning. I think I have to trust my LLMDs opinion. Its what I pay him for.
If that is true and my level has not dropped in the next test then I will maybe get it done.
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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Abxnomore
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posted
Your LLMD is not a biological dentist. He knows how to treat pathogens. What sense does it make to chelate metals and leave mercury in your mouth that will still leech Mercury back into your system. What he said is absolutely contradictory to what people in the field advise.
Also, not all metals respond to oral chelation and you have more than one kind that are elevated. You should research this product he is suggesting and see if any one here has had success with it.
I urge you to take this seriously. There are many people, I'm sure many on this site, who became seriously ill from chelating metals without the help of a very knowledgeable practitioner, a biological dentist and a integrative medical doctor.
Plus, there is much controversy about how to do it. Research DMPS, EDTA, DMSA you will get many different opinions. Don't move so fast on this without gathering information and getting advice from other here who have been thru it.
There are also forums devoted to this subject. Perhaps you should join one.
[ 03-24-2009, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Abxnomore ]
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
I will bring it up at my next appointment with him.
Thanks
Neil
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
4 Tablets ZxymogenChelex 7 Tablets King Chlorella 300mg NSI ALA 600mg NIS NAC 10 drops Nutramedix Algas
Taken every third night at bedtime (Medicines should be taken 2 hours earlier if possible). Example. Take it Sunday night, then skip Mon, Tuesday and then Wednesday is the third night and you do it again, then wait until Saturday to repeat it.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Thanks for posting this, Metallic Blue.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
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Member # 6628
posted
You're welcome. It is the protocol used by my specialist in NY. It's not dangerous, it's very slow and easy to tolerate for just about everyone and you can purchase the stuff yourself if you chose. More severe cases would use higher quantities of DMSA and of course should be monitored, but this is very gentle and long term.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Very interesting. ou posted exactly what I take daily amongst other things. Dont know what the ALA is though.
I take about 2 grams of NAC daily. I take the Jarrow Yaeyama chlorella.
Take care
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Metallic did you have your fillings replaced?? I just remember we share the same LLMD.
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Alpha Lipoic Acid is ALA.
Here is a basic Wikipedia Entry:
Since the early 1990s lipoic acid has been consumed as a dietary supplement, typical doses are 100-200 mg/day. A chronic/carcinogenicity study in rats reported that racemic lipoic acid was found to be non-carcinogenic and did not show any evidence of target organ toxicity. The NOAEL is considered to be 60 mg/kg bw/day.[26]
In addition, because of ALA's ability to modify gene expression by stabilizing NF kappa B transcription factor, Burton M. Berkson started using ALA for the treatment of various cancers for which no effective treatments exist. In a 2006 publication, he and co-authors described the long term survival of a patient with metastatic pancreatic cancer using ALA, low dose naltrexone (LDN), and various oral antioxidants.[27] A 2007 publication of a case study described the complete reversal of the signs and symptoms of a B-cell lymphoma in a patient using less than one month of IV ALA and 6 months of LDN. [28]
[edit] Antioxidant
Lipoic acid was first postulated to be an effective antioxidant when it was found it prevented the symptoms of vitamin C and vitamin E deficiency. It is able to scavenge reactive species in vitro, though there is little or no evidence that this actually occurs in vivo. The relatively good scavenging activity of lipoic acid is due to the strained conformation of the 5-membered ring in the intramolecular disulfide.[29] In cells, lipoic acid can theoretically be reduced to dihydrolipoic acid (ΔE= -0.288), though significant quantities of dihydrolipoic acid derived from orally-ingested lipoic acid have never been demonstrated. Dihydrolipoic acid is able to regenerate (reduce) antioxidants, such as glutathione, vitamin C and vitamin E. [30][31][32] Recent findings suggest that lipoic acid curative effects is due to modulation of regulation in eukaryotes. This occurs due to lipoic acid acting as an oxidant, not a reductant. [33]
[edit] Disease Treatment
Lipoic acid has been shown in cell culture experiments to increase cellular uptake of glucose by recruiting the glucose transporter GLUT4 to the cell membrane, suggesting its use in diabetes.[34][35] Studies of rat aging have suggested that the use of L-carnitine and lipoic acid results in improved memory performance and delayed structural mitochondrial decay.[36] As a result, it may be helpful for people with Alzheimer's disease or Parkinson's disease.[37]
Use as a chelator
Owing to the presence of two thiol groups, dihydrolipoic acid is a chelating agent, but there is no evidence that this reactivity is biologically relevant.[38] As a result, lipoic acid is not approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration as a chelating agent.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
MNM, Obviously people should try as much as possible to get mecury fillings removed. Biological dentists with solid reputations are most useful. I've been gradually collecting names of dentists who are familiar with Lyme Disease, though I still have a long way to go.
Regarding my own situation. I have no fillings. I've never had a cavity -- go me! So, I didn't have to worry about it. For those considering the treatment I'm doing you can use everything except the Chelex. You can use ALA (not high dose, 100 to 300mg) and NAC, as well as Algas from Nutramedix.
The reason the Chelex can not be used is because it contains DMSA and will pull mecury from the fillings causing a potential worsening of issues. Mecury is dangerous when it builds up and it really has no place being in any of our bodies -- especially as dental fillings. Many countries are adopting this policy, the dangers are well established.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
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Member # 6628
posted
I had been exercising and doing detox for quite awhile before I ever was tested for Heavy Metals.
Because of my activity and gentle detox methods I'd like to think it contributed to my test results being less critical than that of other patients. My levels were moderate levels of lead (obviously a problem) and some lower to moderate levels of mecury. Neither was very elevated but they were elevated enough to warrant further chelation treatment.
My other numbers were all low or not present. One strange substance however was Antimony, which is a substance found in plastic products, rubbers etc. I suspect this may be the result of drinking from plastic containers.
I only suspect it, I don't know where it really came from. It was the third highest substance but was in the reference range.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
even if u have fillings, which i do, chelating isnt always a bad thing.
im on the same program mike is. it has helped me tremendously.
i now do it only once a week and still have all my fillings.
i do plan on getting them removed eventually but for now they stay due to finances, health, etc.
i realize and agree that its kinda silly to chelate mercury (mine was basically poisoning) while still having fillings but it provided me immense relief and is something you all just need to keep doing until the fillings are out (and for months thereafter also)
mercury is just as controversial as lyme.
the best rule of thumb is to try what a trained professional suggests and evaluate in 3 months if it has helped, harmed, or done nothing.
i have seem some outright ridiculous suggestions posted here on LN over the last few years only to find some people report back on their apparent benefit.
so again, if it helps, do it. if not, well, you get the point.
dr h who mike is referencing is very good at gentle metal detox and finds great success with the program outlined above.
i would highly suggest any persons suspecting metal toxicity to give that program a trial run upon clearance from your doc.
the algas and chlorella are acquired easily as is the chelex and all are just as effective as oral compounded RX forms of dmsa, edta, etc.
the only downside is that each pill contains 50mg (i think) of the chelating agent/s along with other binders and detoxifiers and requires one to take 4 or more at a time (once full dose is acheived) to meet standard dosing measures.
anyway, just wanted to say my 2 cents.
metals are a huge part in ANY recovery program from ANY illness and it must be addressed.
btw, steer clear of saunas and especially HBOT prior to extensive comprehensive screening followed by extensive adaquate chelation.
unfortunately i did both prior to even getting the testing (my own fault) and those two good therapies only made me much worse.
the sauna will mobilize the mercury and redistribute it throughout your body while the hbot will also mobilize it but force/allow it into new opportunistic areas directed by the forced oxygen into your tissue.
long story short, chelation, the testing and treatment of, has been and will continue to be a vital part in my recovery and lasting functioning capabilities.
i am holding strong for 8 months now at 75%, some days more, and loving life.
there is life after lyme
cheers
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Derek,
Thanks for posting this.
So you actually felt BETTER (I'm guessing you had a few negative sx while things were getting stirred up, but in general..)...BETTER?!?...JUST from taking these chelators Dr. H recommends?
Wow! Don't mean to be-labor the point, but I find it surprising because I have watched some people go through chelation and they didn't improve. So I just want to make sure I understood what you said. (I was always under the impression people detoxed metals for the theoretical benefit, and not because it made them feel better during or afterwards)
Of course if you say you felt better from this I believe you, but I just want to double check.
Also, second question: About the saunas....didn't know that but it makes sense. So I won't use it "before" starting heavy metal detox, but what about "during"?
Or can I only use it after?
Thank you! Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
hoos-
yes for me i felt much better.
keep in mind i had clinical levels so high it was practically poisoning.
i felt much better even after the 2g provoked test.
as far as negative effects during most were initial and included vivid dreams, hallucinations, sweats, lyme symptoms increasing dramatically, overall feeling of unwellness, headache pressure worse, etc.
again, this is ME, but id tend to think chelation isnt to satisfy some dr or program in theory, its a big part of it.
i follow what scott does rather closely and he as are other informed patients big advocates of metal detox.
he recommended a new prodcut called boyd haleys something or other recently but i didnt try it due to financial reasons at the time.
so yeah, id do it. i still do it, and i firmly believe that those who dont look into it think its not a big deal BUT IT IS.
i used to be someone who didnt give it much thought, brushing it off after many who know more than i, trained professionals, kept stressing its importance. so please address it.
those who are doing abx to little or no avail need to seriously look into metals.
ive said it and will keep saying it.
the sauna i would stay away from all throughout chelation unless instructed otherwise.
it could be of help, it could be of harm.
my levels were critically high. if yours arent bad, give it a shot.
i bought a 1500$ sauna only to sell it once i found it brought only more pain. i dont have the patience to work through it nor do i need it anymore it seems.
take care.
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Thanks for the advice again, derek. Glad it helped you so much.
Here is another weird thing....I got really sick after a vaccination that I (stupidly) got two years ago. This was during a relatively better period of my chronic lyme, but it made me relapse hard.
Hmmm......so maybe some of these symptoms COULD really be due to mercury.
Thanks!
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Good info Derek. What was your result prior and then after the chelation may I ask? Was there a huge difference?
As I said my lead and Mercury were 4 times the normal range. I retest in a couple of months.
Oh and Dr H referred to a study done on mice in which they found that ones with higher levels of mercury did not respond to antibiotics for lyme. Despite being infected with the same strain.
Thanks
Neil
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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