heiwalove
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Member # 6467
posted
tumble weed, interesting. i thought the mystery bug adhered to the outside of the cell wall (maybe i'm wrong..?), but yours are clearly inside the cells. anyone else with fry photos?
posted
It's possible that it is inter-cellular. I have a diagnosis of Chlamydia Pneumoniae. It does replicate inter-cellular, to the best of my knowledge. The original diognosis was the "mystery bug" but in my case, that may not be true. I would still like to be tested whenever it's available, and would still like to see other people's slides to see if they are consistant with mine, or what the general consenses is.This picture was taken after I had been on approximately one year's worth of antibiotics, rotating through most of the major ones. I have another DR apointment next week. So, I'll have to see what the doc says.
Posts: 9 | From Myerstown Pa | Registered: May 2008
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
My daughters dots are a few outside the cells and not in.So definitly has to be a diferent bug.
Also your blood cells are separated from each other but my daughters even though just 3 dots outside the cell still seem very cloged.
cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
wow, tumbleweed, my photo looks like yours except i show dots on almost every cell. Like you, I have no dots adhering outside the cell walls.
My F test was about a year ago and said Bartonella.
My back was recently covered in dark bart "scratch marks," at least i think that's what they are, and they are lightening with alinia and zith. go figure.??
Alv, my symptoms are exactly like the toxo symptoms --that is, just like all the regular symptoms a lot of us have: fatigue, headaches, cognitive dysfsunction, joint and muscle pain, etc., etc.
oh yeah, about six-nine months before i became longterm ill, a had a bout of flulike illness caused by a protozoa that my doctor said was "usually found in goats and dogs."
very interesting, tumbleweed,about the Chlamydia pneumonia. was it detected with bloodwork?
I am getting hubby to scan my photo in for me. Should have it here by tonight.
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
My daughter did not have that many symtoms as I did.I wonder if that is a diferent bug.BUt also she had less coinfections that I did.
I am thinking maybe in the begining when they are a few they are out of the cells. They went away right when she was in 20 HH capsules a day , plaquinil and BIAXIN.
While she was in treatment She will say that her top of her brain BURNS and each and every muscle hurt tremendously.
She was exstremely sensitive to the touch and noises like everything was on HER NERVES and she would be so loud and agitated.
posted
Hi yes I have a positive Chlamydia Pneumoniae test. It's 1.36, with anything over 1 being positive. I haven't been able to talk to my dr about it yet, as I just received the results in my last round of blood work. Also I have HHV6 at 9 with anything over 1 being positive. This was blood work I got back from MDL labs. I have a dr appt. on tues, and I'm interested to see what he'll say at that point. One question I have about dr. F's test: what kind of stain is he using that won't kill the bacteria, but still making it highly visible? He talks about being able to see the bacteria being highly mobile, but it was my understanding that most stains kill bacteria on contact. I've spent a lot of time looking at my blood on my microscope, and have not been able to successfully replicate what he is doing. I think it will be very interesting in the weeks to come to see the results that other people have with the new tests he's been coming out with. It will be interesting to see if everyone tests positive for that, or if there are other bacterias that are not being identified.
Posts: 9 | From Myerstown Pa | Registered: May 2008
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
Here is mine:
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Had you been treated for Bart before this smear was done?? If so what had you taken?
Thanks
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
NMN, no, I was treated after this smear actually. I haven't had a smear taken since that first one. Sooooo expensive. I'd love to have it done again, but we have such issues with money right now it's impossible to do.
I was treated with Rifampin, Biaxin, and Doxy for the Bart though for around 4 and a half months... and I did see some improvements during that time.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
Here is my Fry smear done in Dec 07
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
Disturbmee ! my daughter picture is like yours.
hshbmom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9478
posted
How is the slide prepared?
Is a special stain used?
Posts: 1672 | From AL/WV/OH | Registered: Jun 2006
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
hsh,
I think that someone said that Dr. Fry has his own special stain that is patented. So the answer to the second question seems to be yes.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Hi for those asking how to post a picture, the easiest way I've found is to create an account in photobucket, upload the picture to the account, and copy & paste the link into your message.
Posts: 9 | From Myerstown Pa | Registered: May 2008
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
cottonbrain,
Yours is really interesting. The bugs are on the inside of the cells, and there are many per cell. How many other people here have a slide that looks like that?
Mine looks like cantgiveupyet's, but I have maybe just a couple more of them (about 4 total perhaps). But my cells are a little more clumped together.
I wonder if the slides like cottonbrain's (bugs in the cells) and the slides like mine show the same organism, or a different one.
Check out this link that I posted on the other thread. It is a bug similar to babesia that infects animals, and humans too (some species of it).
Look at the 4th picture down, showing Theileria cervi. Look at the cell on the right that the arrow with the long tail is pointing to. Looks like cottonbrain's.
I'm not saying you have theileria, just that the slides look similar. Please don't read too much into what I'm saying. It's just an observation, and something meant to make us think.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
cottonbrain,
You also have two cells in the upper right side of your slide that look like they have ring forms in them. Once again, I wonder if this is all the same organism, or if that is a different organism.
Did anyone tell you what those are? I am not sure if F Labs would have labelled babesia for you or not. One of them on the slide is directly to the right of one of the cells with an arrow. The other one is a little more to the right.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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cottonbrain
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Member # 13769
I agree, the Theilea parva slide from the white-tailed deer looks like my -- and tumble weed's -- slide. How did you make that connection?
I too noticed the ringlike formations on the two blood cells on the upper right. I doubt that my LLMD even noticed these, as the photo provided by F labs is much smaller than the scanned image.
(I do have a clinical Dx for babs -- are they ringlike?)
The idea of being infected with a primarily animal type protozoa does jibe with what my doctor told me many years ago -- that i had a protozoa that usually is seen and dogs and goats. hmmm.
my doctor, coincidentally, was at UGA, where the vet who penned the article was.
very mysterious, indeed. thx, hoos, for the link to the interesting theilea parva site.
i hope this is not a bug that many of us have, as the article stated that it is often resistant to abx.
anyone else? more slides?
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
Alv, i too have marks that i have attritbuted to bart --
dark broken-looking veins on my back, intercepted by vertical 'scratch marks' and other hyperpigmentation that looks like hatchmarks. is that what your daughter's looks like?
i am seronegative for babesia and bart except for the F smear.
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
YES she had the exact blue dark veins with this paterns but she was positive on bart hens and quintata also .
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posted
My smear and my husbands said few and hemobartonella/mycoplasma. There are a few RBC with dots on the outside.. a few inside. None had multiple dots. This was after I was treated withe Mepron, Biaxin for about 4.5 months. When zith and art were added, I emotionally crashed. My husband had not been treated. He has mostly muscle pain.
My first symptoms started (babs or mystery bug?) with chills, tachycardia, uncontrollable shakes when I started drinking ginger tea. I remember thinking what was I consuming differently .. I ha started daily smoothies and ginger tea.
Ginger is anti malarial.???
I lookd up anti-malarial, protozoan herbs and found many Im sure you all are familiar with. neem came up as both antimalarial, protozoan. Lemongrass as well. Clove too. Huma worm.. lots of stuff there. Thyme interestingly.
I realize this is suppoed to be hard to get rid of, but it cant hurt to rotate these herbs (I have many more I found).. trying something at least.
[ 04-05-2009, 06:25 AM: Message edited by: R62 ]
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
**My first symptoms started (babs or mystery bug?) with chills, tachycardia, uncontrollable shakes when I started drinking ginger tea. ****
This is exactly what it is as the symtoms match to many people and my kids.YES first symtoms are MUSCLE pain as you have fibromylangia.
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posted
Do you mystery buggers have "creepy" feelings in your muscles.. hard to describe... very unsettling.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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Hoosiers51
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Member # 15759
posted
cottonbrain,
No problem. I researched Theileria because someone posted on the "mystery bug" thread that at the conference Dr. F said it was a species of Theileria (which is very similar to babesia).
Babesia microti has been re-named Theileria microti by some scientists because it was discovered that it is more similar to the theileria genus (which is a classification) of microorganisms (little microscopic critters for those not into science talk). It should have been in that genus all along. Babesia duncani has remained a "babesia."
R62, I have only had that a few times. It was right after I added Plaquenil to my Mepron/Zithro combo. Seemed to be a herx. To me it seemed related to Bart because my brain cleared up a little after I stopped the Plaquenil (I only did 6 weeks of it b/c of side effect, but continued the others). But it could have been anything.
About the ginger----weird! I have this strange pheonomenon where I sometimes crave beneficial things, like I had a 4 day period where I craved raw garlic and ate it nightly....and yesterday I couldn't get ginger off my mind. I almost bought some candied ginger. (I wasn't quite to the point of craving raw ginger, but I also thought about buying ginger tea. That sounded good too)
PS--I know you all will think I'm totally insane for saying this, but I also went through a phase where I CRAVED tonic water. I wanted it so badly (with lime! haha) I didn't drink it though because it is either loaded with sugar or artificial sweeteners. Didn't need the gin, just wanted the tonic water. I even searched online for something that didn't have sugar or bad stuff in it....no success. There was one with agave syrup I think but it was still too high in simple carbs.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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cottonbrain
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Member # 13769
posted
Theileria...babesia...so it seems the treatment would be different for these two, yet only one general treatment, i.e. for babesia, seems to be practiced?
R62, i get itchy and tingling skin, like little bites, sometimes. doesnt sound the same?
a gin and tonic sounds delish! if only...
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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Hoosiers51
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Member # 15759
posted
Not sure if the treatment would be different though...if you consider that theileria microti responds to the "babesia" drugs like Mepron and Zithromax, malarone, biaxin with bactrim, etc.
It was only an observation that the cells look similar...but maybe it doesn't mean anything....maybe those spots are babesia, or maybe they are the mystery bug, or maybe they're something that doesn't cause symptoms.
I hope I didn't confuse you more. I just felt like maybe I should throw the observation out there about the pictures looking similar.
Probably the best thing to do if you're worried about it would be to print both pictures up and show them to your doctor, and see what he/she has to say about it.
None of us really have too many answers right now...hopefully we're getting closer.
PS--Babesia and Theileria are both piroplasms. This makes them both very similar. To illustrate this, here's a story: Awhile back, I asked one of my former LLMD's to write me a letter that I needed with the name of my diagnosises. He put Lyme, but he also put "babesiosis/piroplasmosis".
I thought to myself: piroplasmosis! What the heck is that?!?!? (he had never mentioned this to me...) So I did some research online.
I eventually interepreted what he wrote as....even back then, despite my positive Igenex FISH, he was being very...what's the word? I guess overly-technical, but in a good way. He was being cautious. He probably knew that there was debate about what classification b. microti went in.
Maybe we should just think of it as "all the same." Maybe he was a couple years ahead of us, in thinking that the lines of these classifications are blurred, and we should see them as such.
Thus, my LLMD probably knew about the "grey area"...but he still chose to treat me with the standard babesia protocol. So maybe the treatment IS the same? (for some species)
posted
The "creepies" seem to be in my muscles.. I do get itching alot as well, and I can tell my lymphs are struggling (and itchy at times).. I wonder if its toxins trying to move out from muscles. I feel anxiety in my muscles.. oddest thing then it sometimes but not always creeps into my head, which makes me think inflammation or hypofusion?? I get heaviness in my legs and wonder if I am developing elephantitis. Blood or lymph pooling I guess from die off or infestation... of it seems bart, babesia d or t, or the lovely mystery bug. Funny I had a dream before this info came out that i had a parasite in a vein, lymph or blood I couldnt tell. It looked like a piece of rice like a tapeworm. LOL or not...
Massage can help or make worse. Dry skin brushing feels great. I've heard of the lymph problems more with bart of babesia. ??
Yes, looking back I seemed to have had my first herx from drinking ginger (antimalarial) tea... or it was of course a coincidence.
I wonder if we would get this sick if we put tons of spices on our food. Seemingly even toxoplasmosis is a 50/50 common infection from one site I read, so people carry it and are seemingly OK. Scary to read about life time of abx as if...
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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cottonbrain
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Member # 13769
posted
Hoosiers, your explanation is very helpful. It sounds like you have an excellent LLMD --
mine thinks that the dots on my blood cells are bart or BLO and says they will go away with bart treatment.
meantime, he Dx'd me clinically for babs, so I'm getting the right treatment for that, I hope.
I haven't spoken to him since the Fry conference, but i see him in a few weeks, so I'll get his opinion again.
Someone posted in this thread (sorry, now I can't find it) that their fry slide showed dots both ON and adhering to the erythrocites. I would love to see that picture.
for anyone else who has a picture, tumble weed's suggestion for using photobucket is good. works great! very easy. thanks, tw.
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Looking at all the pictures, there are some very distinct variations. I've tried Leviquine and it seems to have no affect on it at all. I was wondering if anybody else has considered whether it could be virus-related, rather than bacteria-related. Could we be seeing damage on the outside of the cells from high levels of virus, with the stain simply sticking to the damaged spots on the outside of the cell wall? It's kind of hard to tell how the stain is reacting to different things, if he's using a unique stain. I would still love to see more pictures, I know there were more a while ago, but haven't been able to find them anymore. Also it would be very interesting to hear from some of you who have had Dr. F's test, who have seen improvements after finding something in their blood.
Posts: 9 | From Myerstown Pa | Registered: May 2008
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cottonbrain
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Member # 13769
posted
snyone else have a picture?
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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