heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
hi all,
my cat is currently sick with something the vet has been unable to definitively diagnose. his main symptoms are urinary tract problems without signs of infection (straining, frequent urination, only going a little at a time, blood in the urine, sometimes urinating straight blood) and increased grumpiness, agitation, meowing for no apparent reason, and aggression (particularly against my other cat, with whom he has always been best friends). at the moment his diagnosis is FUS, or feline urinary syndrome, which of course means they have no idea what is causing his symptoms.
he's strictly an indoor cat, though in his early kittenhood he was indoor/outdoor for a few months (he's 4 years old now).
should i ask the vet to test him for TBDs? what tests are run and how accurate are they? maybe i can plead with the vet to administer a trial run of abx (zithro for bart, for example) and see what happens?
Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
Sorry your cat is sick. It is so sad when our furry children suffer.
I had a thirteen year-old cat who passed away suddenly last summer. He was strictly indoors too, as is his sibling. His symptoms resembled those you described for about a week. Then one night his back legs went out and they started to spasm.
I rushed him to the emergency vet and there was nothing they could do. I begged them to test him for TBD because I was suspicious and just had to know.
Unfortunately, they wouldn't. I was later told by my regular vet that it is extremely rare for cats to die from Lyme. But, I don't know. Seems quite likely to me.
Ticks get into our house all the time. I find them in our beds sometimes. I suspect one got on him and I didn't know.
Best of luck to you and your cat. I would definitely have him tested.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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sizzled
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posted
Is he fat?
Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
So sorry to hear about your kitty - I have 2 myself. I would think with all the physical symptoms antibiotics wouldn't hurt - obviously there is something going on physiologically with your cat with the blood issue
I have found that vets are far more familiar with Lyme that people doctors anyway..
This may sound nuts, but last summer my cat was going through horrible behavioral problems (we tried everything) and I actually resorted to calling a pet psychic reccomended by a friend of a friend.
I'm still not sure if the woman was really "psychic", but she was definitely an expert in feline behvior and was able to give us a lot of good suggestions and tips to point us in getting the problem under control...
PM me if you are interested - I think it was about $50 for 45 minutes - it's over the phone - you don't have to take you kitty anywhere.
-------------------- "We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us" - e.m. forster Posts: 921 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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AZURE WISH
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Member # 804
posted
So sorry your cat isnt feeling well.
My vet told me that the tbd tests are very innacurate for cats. and i have also found vets to be more lyme literate than people drs.
Your cats symptoms sound like they would be painful. Do you think his behavoir issues could be coming from the fact he is in pain and not feeling well?
do you have any friends with cats who have a vet they really like? I would want to get a second opinion.
Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
You know, something just came to mind....was your cat tested for diabetes?
Male cats are particularly susceptible. Sometimes all that is needed is a change in diet. Also, if insulin is required, it's easy enough to do. I administered it to my previous cat.
Once again, best of luck to you and your kitty cat.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Sorry to hear about your cat. Did they do an X-ray and check for bladder stones or urinary stones? I am not a vet, so I can not diagnose. This is just a thought.
Have they tried antibiotics and a special urinary diet by Science Diet or Purina?
My vet told me that it would be rare for cats to have a TBD, b/c cats rarely have ticks on them b/c they groom so much. Hope this helps.
I know it is hard when your animal is sick and you don't know what is wrong with them. I just went through this with my dog and it took 1 month to get his diagnosis.
-------------------- We are their voice, Please spay and neuter! Make adoption your first option! Posts: 61 | From Alabama | Registered: Aug 2008
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
Your cat sounds almost EXACTLY like our male cat.
Regardless of what is causing it, if your cat is having any trouble passing urine, they can die very suddenly.
It sounds like it could be Cystitis or Struvitis, and is very serious!
Our cat gets what are called struvite crystals in his bladder - some cats can get them from stress, which is what happens in our cat. He bleeds a bit, as the crystals cut the lining of the bladder and urethra. Then he can't pass urine and he is in so much pain he growls and gets very very grumpy, when he is normally the sweetest cat you've ever seen.
Apparently this can be VERY common in male cats. We had no idea since this was our first male. They can die from the crystals building up with blood and mucus in the bladder and urethra and blocking urination.
It can happen really fast! You need to take you cat to a different vet and ask about Cystitis or Struvitis - they are 2 different types of crystal growths.
My husband is goin to post more about this because I am really worn down and having a hard time typing now.
posted
First, let me say this is VERY dangerous to your cat, and can be fatal if not addressed IMMEDIATELY.
Our cat has this problem, on a recurring basis. I am not a vet, but it sounds very similar, so take this at face value, but not as professional advice.
It sounds like Struvitis or Cystitis - basically the formation of magnesium salts within the bladder that irritate and can potentially block the urinary tract. In male cats, this can be fatal in a short amount of time - if he is still passing urine (even bloody) it is not too late to mitigate.
The most critical thing is to get the crystals (struva) flushed out of the bladder - feed him wet food, pour tuna juice into the water you give him - anything to increase the fluid intake to flush the system.
An aid to this would be a smooth muscle relaxer and a pain reliever, as it will let him pass the blockage without as much spasming and irritation.
If he is not passing urine, they will need to admit him to the vet hospital and catheterize him overnight to break up the blockage and prevent any damage to the bladder or kidneys.
A followup course of antibiotics would be a safety procedure, but not as crucial as the first steps.
I am really shocked your vet does not know what this is, as it is fairly common - I would go to another vet, especially if there is one with an emergency ward nearby, and switch to another vet for the long term too.
There is a lot of debate as to what triggers this condition, but it seems to be a combination of stress and diet in our cat's case - he goes into one of these when we have home repair work going on that is loud. Try to observe anything that makes him jumpy and isolate him from it if at all possible.
Best of luck with your cat - I know all too well what you are going through.
I will also PM you with this in case you don't catch the thread update.
Posts: 13 | From Ohio | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
I believe my cat had whatever I have. Either he gave it to me, or I to him, or maybe we both got from backyard -- or something else entirely. He was a fat orange fellow who one day developed rodent ulcers, sores on his lips, assumed by most vets to be 'autoimmune' in origin.
Against my better judgement, I allowed a single cortisone shot -- there was supposed to be a series of three. To assuage my concern, the vet insisted that felines handle steroids very well, much better than humans, and that the risk of side effects, most likely diabetes, was about one in a thousand. Well, my cat hit the blood sugar lottery! After ONE f-ing shot.
After this there came a two year period of diabetes -- twice daily insulin shots -- which then disappeared as if by magic. But then, like an earlier poster said, he started getting disoriented, and freaking out at ghosts and walls and his own tail and other scary things. This would come and go. Then he got a sore on his paw. It wouldn't heal. They had to cut off a toe and have it analyzed for cause; which, of course, they couldn't figure out.
I switched vets and the new vet was open to the chronic infection angle. She prescribed abx, kitty-doxy (I think) and amox to be specific, and they were helpful for a time, but by then it was too late -- had I started out with abx I believe he may have avoided this mess (but, who knows).
In the end, he would come home dragging a leg one day, but then the next day he'd be fine. It was weird. Puzzling. The syx came and went, but, like many of us, escalated over time. A very social cat, almost abnormally so, I would know he was having an off day because he'd bury himself under my blankets, or hide away in some secret corner of closet among sweaters or towels. This was NOT like him at all. Still, to the end he was a very sweet animal, even on his most miserable days.
If it were me, I would get kitty tested. But, more importantly, watch closely. And if syx look like something you would read any one of us posting about ourselves, I would go the anti-microbial and probiotics route.
But, I am not a vet, and these recommendations are not medical advice. Good luck.
PS -- I forgot to say that he had urinary tract problems too.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
thanks for your advice, everyone. very much appreciated.
nenets_hubby, the vet diagnosed him with exactly what you wrote -- there are a million names for it but FUS and cystitis are essentially one and the same. you're right, it is extremely common in male cats his age (3-4 years). they don't know what causes it, and i'm not convinced there isn't an infectious origin. i'm watching him closely and making sure he's passing urine, that his bladder isn't blocked. i've increased his intake of wet food and will bring him back to the vet on monday and request xrays and perhaps a trial course of kitty abx.
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Hey Heiwalove,
My kitty bob went through this exact thing a couple of years ago. I had to admit him into the vet hospital for three days, and it was very touch and go.
Once home, I spoke at length with his vet explaining how I was ill, how I lost my dog to TBDs and how Bob was exposed to the very same environment as I was.
There had also been a recent flea infestation, and he brought a nymph into the house while on Rx flea and tick control only a few short months previous to the UT blockage.
Bob was placed on Doxy for over a year. Within the first few weeks of treatment, he was like a kitten again! Scampering, and playing with toys! I had my guy back and I was just so grateful to have found a compassionate vet who would listen and take action!
I believe Bob to be a Bart carrier. And the jury is still out as to whether we have eliminated his infection, so I keep a close watch on him... knowing that at any time, he may need some continued maintenance therapy.
Big Bob will be 11 next week! PLEASE get you kitty to the vet ASAP!
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Melanie Reber
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posted
PS...since that time, Bob had to be placed on prescription food only. He also is not allowed ANY food with fish by products. No tuna, etc. I read all labels very carefully.
I have had to give up tuna too, because it was always his favorite and I just can't bear to see him beg for it once he hears the can opener. Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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sparkle7
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posted
Hi-
I found this... It's for Bengals but I think it applies to all cats (my cat is part Bengal).
There's lots of info about it if you google "feline cystitis". I had a male cat die of this when I was a child. That was over 40 years ago. I think any vet should be aware of this. It's quite common.
Good luck! I hope your cat get well soon.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
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I feed my cat frozen food called Countrypet. It seems pretty good. Some health food stores carry it.
I think I'll discontinue dry food after reading this article...
My cat LOVES chlorella & nutritional yeast. He also drinks water every time I run the sink or tub. He use to eat all kinds of weird things when he was a kitten... like raisins, bread & asparagus.
I used to give him raw food but I was afraid he might get a parasite.
I've read that some people use Rescue Remedy on their pets, too.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
thanks melanie and sparkle. your replies are really helpful.
melanie, why isn't your cat allowed to eat fish? was he determined to have an allergy, and if so, how? also, did you give bob probiotics while he was on the doxy?
merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
In 10 years of being a vet tech in massachusetts,
I have never tested a cat for Lyme disease, or even hear a doctor even mention Lyme in cats.
I asked a vet and they told me there was no test for Lyme in cats.
My cat actually had to have his urethra re routed due to crystals.
he was completely obstructed.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
Hi Heiwalove, I'm so pleased that our info is helping you and your little love.
Bob's diet was restricted due to the high phosphate concentrate in most processed cat food. As I understand it, fish and fish by products are also high in phosphates and this is what actually forms the crystals that are causing the obstruction. (See below...)
So, no, it wasn't an allergy, but a preventative measure. Yes, I actually did share my probiotics with him and he also just LOVES yogurt too!
Remember to keep that away from the meds just like you would for yourself.
Also, a life saver...there are things called Pill Pockets that you can wrap the doxy in that kitties just swallow down whole with a vengeance! NO MORE awkward pill shooters which was causing BOTH of us undue stress!
"Any time a cat misses the litterbox and begins to urinate in other places around the house, a bladder infection should be suspected and the urine should be examined. Pain or discomfort in the cat's bladder when it urinates is perceived by the cat as the fault of the litterbox!
The cat thinks the pain is coming from the litterbox and seeks out a more safe and secure area in which to eliminate such as the owner's bed, a laundry basket, behind or on couches, in a tub or sink, or in dark corners of closets. Bladder infections provide a perfect environment in the cat's bladder for magnesium ammonium phosphate ions in solution to begin to form crystals. These microscopic crystals attach to each other or bacterial organisms and begin to precipitate into larger concretions. If the crystals stay small enough, they will pass out in the urine. If they continue to grow they will form bladder stones or even the more rare occurrence of kidney stones.
Bladderstones irritate the lining of the bladder and provide an excellent breeding ground for bacteria. In female cats, the urethra leading from the bladder to the outside world is relatively distensible, shorter, and of larger diameter than the urethra of the male cat. Therefore female cats rarely become obstructed.
Male cats, neutered or unneutered, have a relatively long and quite narrow urethral diameter; the male cat is highly prone to struvite (magnesium ammonium phosphate) material congesting and obstructing the distal end of the urethra."
Or just go to the Education group on LymeFriends where I have also posted info on animals and TBDs.
Cats like all other animals DO get Lyme and other TBDs, the problem is that we are not adept at recognizing it in them most times until it is too late.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Not sure about lyme. Maybe, but haven't heard of it causing an inability to urinate?? My vet actually told me that cats don't get lyme (which I don't see how that's true at all, so I'm not believing that... sounds all too familiar).
Has he checked for kidney stones? My cat that I had while growing up had this, and had the exact same symptoms your cat is having. We had to have the stones broken up with a laser. Then it happened again and we had to have surgery to remove his male parts so the stones would pass easier.
I don't think it would hurt to try antibiotics first for a possible UTI or kidney infection. I definitely think you should request this so your cat doesn't have to suffer, and your vet should be willing. If not, I would go to another vet. And if the abx don't work, I would look into stones.
Good luck.
Posts: 453 | From TX | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Hi, There is a test for Lyme in cats by Antech Diagnostics. I had my cat tested on 3/19/09. She was negative for Lyme but may have another infection or cancer. She is presently receiving amoxicillin bid. Good luck with your cat
-------------------- Sherlock Posts: 31 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2009
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Melanie Reber
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posted
How is the kitty doing?
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I hope you could find a vet to treat your kitty. I just want to say I have been through this urinary problem with several male cats over many years and it's important to switch vets if they aren't proactive about treating it promptly. It can be fatal if the cat's urinary system is blocked. Cats decline much more quickly than we do if they get sick. there is no time to waste.
Also, my cat had a tick attached and engorged below his ear last December, and my vet, who I think knows a lot about TBI's in animals said flat out that cats don't get Lyme. My cat is still healthy. So I would not worry that the vets are missing a TBI. They know more than human docs. Just make sure you get a good vet. Is there a veterinary school or tertiary care animal hospital near you?
Keep us posted.
Posts: 156 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2003
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heiwalove
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Member # 6467
posted
kitty is better -- switched him (and my other kitty, by default) to an all-canned food diet (holy expensiveness!), and he's on occasional painkillers and muscle relaxants. back to the vet this week for imaging tests. not sure if i can convince them to give him a trial run of kitty abx -- so far that's been unsuccessful - but i'll keep trying and find a new vet if i have to.
Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
Seroprevalence of antibodies against Borrelia burgdorferi and Anaplasma phagocytophilum in cats. [Journal Article] Magnarelli LA, Bushmich SL, IJdo JW, Fikrig E Am J Vet Res 2005 Nov; 66(11):1895-9.
OBJECTIVE: To determine whether cats in the northeastern United States develop serum antibodies against antigens of Borrelia burgdorferi and Anaplasma phagocytophilum and whether coinfection with the 2 organisms occurs.
SAMPLE POPULATION: Serum samples from 84 healthy cats and 9 cats with lameness, fever, anorexia, or fatigue.
PROCEDURE: Serum antibodies against B. burgdorferi and A. phagocytophilum were measured with an ELISA incorporating a whole-cell preparation or purified recombinant antigens, by means of Western blot analysis, or indirect fluorescent antibody (IFA) staining.
RESULTS: ELISA results indicated that 44 of 93 (47%) sera contained antibodies against > or = 3 B. burgdorferi antigens, whereas 43 (46%) were reactive to whole-cell B. burgdorferi. Serum reactivity to protein 35, VlsE, and outer surface proteins A and F was most common. Seropositivity to > or = 3 antigens occurred at the same rate (5/9) in the 9 ill cats as in the 84 healthy cats (46% [39/84]). Of 13 sera reactive to recombinant antigens, 9 were seropositive as measured by Western blot testing with whole-cell antigen.
Seropositivity rates of 30% and 38% were detected for antibodies against A phagocytophilum via IFA and ELISA testing, respectively. Fifteen (16%) sera had antibodies against both pathogens.
CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Cats living in areas infested by Ixodes scapularis ticks are exposed to B. burgdorferi and A. phagocytophilum and, in some instances, may be coinfected. Most cats appeared healthy. An ELISA incorporating specific recombinant antigens may be used adjunctively with Western blot and other assays to confirm B. burgdorferi and A. phagocytophilum infection in cats.Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Melanie Reber
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posted
Evaluation of a canine C6 ELISA Lyme disease test for the determination of the infection status of cats naturally exposed to Borrelia burgdorferi. [Evaluation Studies, Journal Article] Levy SA, O'Connor TP, Hanscom JL, Shields P Vet Ther 2003; 4(2):172-7.
The efficacy of a commercially available in-office kit (SNAP 3Dx, IDEXX Laboratories) for detection of antibodies directed against an invariable region (IR6) of the B. burgdorferi surface protein VlsE (Vmp-like sequence, Expressed), a surface antigen of the spirochete recognized during active infection has been evaluated in dogs.
The present study was conducted to determine whether this in-office test could be useful for detection of antibodies to B. burgdorferi in cats. Cats owned by clients of a veterinary hospital located in an area hyperendemic for Lyme disease were included in the study. When possible, cats with an outdoor lifestyle, bite wounds, or current tick infestation were recruited for the study to help ensure that animals with a likelihood of exposure to natural infection by B. burgdorferi would be included in the test group.
Of the 24 cats tested, 17 samples were positive for antibodies to B. burgdorferi by the C6 ELISA kit. For all 17 of these samples, a duplicate sample tested by immunofluorescent assay (IFA) was in agreement with the ELISA. Five samples were negative by both assays. Two samples that were negative by the C6 ELISA test had low IFA titers (1:100). One of these two discrepant samples was negative and one was positive for antibodies to B. burgdorferi by the Western blot test.
It was concluded that the C6 ELISA test performed with good agreement with the IFA and Western blot tests for detection of antibody to B. burgdorferi in the majority of cats tested. The test offers the advantages of producing a result rapidly (approximately 8 minutes), and it requires only two drops of serum, plasma, or whole blood.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
Melanie,
I am so sorry I can not comprehend the information you kindly posted.
Does this means cats can get Lyme? I think my indoor cat died last summer of Lyme. We get ticks in our house.
I wasn't using Frontline (just Revolution) at the time because my vet said it wasn't necessary since my cats never go outside.
Now, of course, I do use Frontline. But I wonder...do cats get Lyme and co-infections?
My vet said it is extremely rare for cats to get Lyme, but then I wonder why they invented Frontline for cats.
Anyway, if your post indicates that cats can get it, then I think I have been right all along in thinking that his sudden death was caused by this disese.
Thanks for deciphering this for me. I apologize. I used to be so smart. Really.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
For anyone who thinks they may have a feLymie:
There are two things I forgot to mention.
When my cat was spiraling down, he reacted very badly to a flea collar; it caused him additional neurological problems. I should have known better than to put a chemical noose around his neck, but my judgement -- never stellar -- lapsed when considering the possibility of another tick exposure.
And second, he got whacked terribly by catnip. I think it may have immuno-suppressive qualities, as, when he was particularly bad, the vet gave me a catnip toy for him. This was a cat who NEVER cared much for catnip. But now, sick as he was, he went wild for this toy, and for the rest of the day was painfree and hopping around like a kitten. But the next day, and in the days to follow, he went downhill quickly.
After that he would not go near the catnip toy, and even gave it sidelong glances.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Melanie Reber
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posted
Yes! Cats DO get Lyme and other tickborne diseases.
Do not ever doubt it. The above abstracts, and I ONLY grabbed 2 because I was in a hurry, prove that felines get Lyme disease and co-infections.
From the first abstract: "Cats living in areas infested by Ixodes scapularis ticks are exposed to B. burgdorferi and A. phagocytophilum and, in some instances, may be coinfected. Most cats appeared healthy."
This is basically saying that the cats they tested for the 2 co-infections WERE positive, even though the cats appeared healthy.
From the second abstract: "Of the 24 cats tested, 17 samples were positive for antibodies to B. burgdorferi by the C6 ELISA kit. For all 17 of these samples, a duplicate sample tested by immunofluorescent assay (IFA) was in agreement with the ELISA."
This is saying that of the 24 cats they tested, 17 were infected.
Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
Thank you so much for interpreting the information for me, Melanie.
I am glad I added Frontline for my indoor cats, just in case.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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