posted
I have sleep apnea. Has it been connected to Lyme? I had a sleep study and that's how it was diagnosed. Mine is obstructive rather than central. Central originates in the brain I think. I could see where central sleep apnea could have a Lyme connection.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
This question may not get rewarded unless the
patient actually sleeps with someone who has to
wake them up all nite to get them to breath.
Most people do not realize it unless this happens. In fact they may deny it.
I suppose a cheap alternative is get someone to watch you sleep all night.
And if they can count how many times you don't
breath and how long you don't breath, you can go from there. Sleep apnea patients are in the most danger from anesthesia.
Don't ever go to the hospital without your Cpap if you are living with one.
FYI People have been known to go in for simple surgeries and post surgery go to sleep without Cpap and never wake up.
This question should always be asked and it is not or Dr.s don't put it together.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I have it. My brother and my sister who both seem to have lyme pretty severely have it too. My other sister who isn't as sick as we are does not have it and she is an identical twin to the sister who does have it. The one who doesn't have sleep apnea was on long term abx for acne.
I think sleep apnea is common in lyme patients. I doubt that there are studies that verify it because "chronic lyme" doesn't exist according to the people who get the bulk of the research money.
I'm repeating what I've already posted here before.
I think there are a number of reasons that lyme can cause obstructive sleep apnea.
Lyme affects brain chemistry and brain chemistry is implicated in obstructive sleep apnea. Yes, I did mean to say obstructive sleep apnea. Lyme also affects muscle tone, may make one more prone to allergies and can cause a sore throat and swelling in the throat. All of these things could cause and/or contribute to sleep apnea.
Obstructive sleep apnea and brain chemistry.
http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?language=english&type=article&article_id=218392013 "We found that the lower the dopamine, the worse the REM sleep behavior disorder; and the lower the acetylcholine, the worse the obstructive sleep apnea," says Gilman. These patients actually lose the brain cells which produce the chemicals. We controlled for which chemical in the brain was causing which disorder, so only the dopamine is related to REM sleep behavior disorder, and only acetylcholine to obstructive sleep apnea."
Borrelia biotoxins lower acetylcholine: http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMar2006/lyme0206.htm "The action of botulinum (as well as the toxin from the Lyme spirochete) is to prevent, through its action as a proteolytic enzyme, the release of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine."
I also have fibromyalgia caused by lyme and I was surprised to see a number of studies that connect sleep disordered breathing with fibromyalgia since as far as I can tell, it is not a well known symptom of fibro.
There may need to be other factors involved besides lower acetylcholine such as throat swelling or muscle tone problems etc.. but in my view, there are many problems that lyme causes that could well tip someone over into sleep apnea.
That said, sleep apnea is fairly common in the general population from what I've read. Many people don't know that they have a mild form of it though.
posted
Thanks, Terry for that info. Very interesting.
I was diagnosed with sleep apnea about 5 yrs ago, but I'm sure I had it for ten maybe twenty years. I had daytime sleepiness, driving with one eye open, and eventually an episode of heart arrhythmia/tachycardia which sent me to the ER. Untreated sleep apnea can I know lead to congestive heart failure.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
thank you
anyone test low O2?
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
Three cases of Lyme disease associated with encephalopathy and nocturnal hypoventilation or prolonged central apnea have been reported. In these cases, tracheotomy and prolonged ventilatory support were required because of abnormal central respiratory disturbances.28
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
THERE IS A LOT IF YOU SEARCH-HERE'S ONE:
lymebytes Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts) Member # 11830
posted 30 December, 2007 01:54 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As Johnlyme1 above said O2 without outside air is dangerous. Since I posted on this thread last I have found out if you do not breathe out carbon dioxide it can be dangerous or fatal. That is why oxygen masks are not used often, you cannot exhale carbon dioxide. Also, it is not good to use WHILE excercising, after is ok.
Burrascano once said the "tiniest" bit of oxygen kills Lyme, it can't survive any amount of oxygen.
What Oxygen does for you
Receiving home oxygen therapy offers a number of substantial benefits for patients. For instance, sleep disruption due to low oxygen levels will be reduced by using supplemental oxygen. Oxygen therapy has also been known to help improve concentration and memory. Those suffering from oxygen starvation often feel weak and listless. Receiving oxygen increases energy levels and provides an overall feeling of well being. Clinicians often recommend a combination of supplemental oxygen and regular exercise to improve patients quality of life.
Additional Benefits of Oxygen Therapy:
Headache relief Increased clarity Boosts immune system Relieves nausea Can prevent heart failure in people with severe lung disease Allows the bodies organs to carry out normal functions Its decline may prompt muscle spasms, or the 'agonal phase,' from the Greek word agon, or contest."
Symptoms of possible oxygen deficiency: overall body weakness fatigue circulation problems poor digestion muscle aches and pains dizziness depression memory loss irrational behavior irritability muscle spasms acid stomach lung problems increased unhealthy bacteria, germs, viruses and parasites almost any illness is created or worsened by lowered oxygen supply.
posted
Thanks Ipkayak for the info. When I had my sleep study, my O2 levels were monitored truout the night. Levels got into the low 80's I think. Also I had very poor REM sleep.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
This is an interesting discussion. I get the gasping thing sometimes when trying to sleep. I never had any sleep issues prior to lyme.
Question for those in the know: Would a sleep disorder measurably affect hormone levels and if so which ones?
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
yes, sleep apnea is ON list of symptoms...
my comments and questions to you who do have sleep apnea.
1st...yes, dx finally 5 yrs. ago with sleep apnea which showed on both overnight stays i get NO DELTA 4 SLEEP meaning my body does not wake up feeling refreshed and it does NOT heal from injuries due to this.
i've been like this for 30-35 years with NO sleep!
did any of your sleep studies show this too? no delta 4
i'm overweight; are the rest of you?
or you lean and mean... sorry had to add some laughter into this serious subject...
my cpap machine is set on no. 11 for oxygen for me.
they said i didn't stop breathing enough to qualify for medicare paying for monthly rental but adding in my diagnosis of anxiety/depression ... i qualified!!
new law went into effect 1-1-09 and you have to see your pcp after 2 months of using the cpap. i did; he had no idea why i was there.
i called medical supply place; they would call his office to tell him what he needed to furnish them/medicare.
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posted
I was diagnosed with sleep apnea two years ago after my girlfriend complained about me choking during the night.
My sleep study showed it to be severe. I stopped breathing 65 times per HOUR! After treating with CPAP, its now 3 times per hour which is better than a normal person.
My energy levels definitely improved but since I have Lyme, thats all relative. I still feel like crap.
Posts: 29 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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Just started treatment with CPAP. We're still in the process of tweaking air pressure, etc. to make sure I get the maximum treatment I need.
My apnea appeared when my Lyme did. I've read and also been told that Lyme can affect/damage the cranial nerve that is responsible for respiration and swallowing.
I've forgotten whether it is the 9th Cranial nerve or the 10th.
I am still, however, experiencing breathing disturbances that seem to be apart or separate from Obstructive Sleep Apnea or maybe even Central Apnea.
My respiratory system seems to get hung up on the exhale alot during sleep. It's frightening, frustrating and exhausting.
When I exhale, it's like my body doesn't know how to inhale and it's stuck.
Some of that phenomenon was picked up during my sleep study and they called them RERA's -- we could see exactly what I was describing on the data graphs. Which doesn't help much.
Sleep doc said the only treatment for RERA's is CPAP treatment so far.
It's no fun when sleeping feels like an exercise in nightly asphyxiation!
Thanks for the article from that Chest Journal. I'm going to read it now. And also read Terry's great links. Like all the rest of us, I've got the encephalopathy as well.
Fuzz
Posts: 503 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2007
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
I have fibro from my Lyme, and I understand that there is an imbalance of collagen/elastin in fibro, that could theoretically cause OSA, ie. too little collagen and too much elastin.
As an aside, this imbalance is the same thing that may cause so many of us to have GERD, bile reflux, varicose veins, hemorrhoids, mitral valve prolapse, small bowel bacterical overgrowth due to a floppy ileocecal valve, etc.
My oxygen levels measured too low twice, which is why they sent me for a sleep study, BUT both events occured when I was awake. Fibro people often have hypopnea (very shallow breathing)all the time, not just when asleep.
My sleep study showed 29 hypopneas per hour, which is on the border between moderate and serious. There was no apnea, but the sleep specialist told me hypopnea is just as bad.
I've been on CPAP for 2 1/2 yrs. and it lowered my hypopneas to 2 per hour. However, I feel it is getting worse again.
I have no treatment for my Lyme, and I notice I often stop breathing for a minute and then take in a big, sighing breath, even when awake. Personally, I can't think of a better way to go than to fall asleep and not wake up.
BTW, I just had general anesthesia last week, for the third time in the past year, and had no problems at all with it.
klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Tracy9
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Member # 7521
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
Just repeating this question from above...would a sleep disorder measurably affect hormone levels and if so which ones? Does anyone with a sleep disorder have hormonal issues attributed to the sleep disorder? Thanks....
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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