I tried to find some more info on the Valkion vs. the eng3 from before. The only thing I came across was the following quote from a message board posting:
quote:I have tried the eng3 Active Air 3 on 8 clients in a small study. I ran it head-to head with the Valkion unit (recommended by Dr. Klinghardt). The Valkion unit won hands down. I returned my eng3 Active Air 3 machine this afternoon.
I can e-mail you my informal study results if you would like.
I can't seem to track down this person - it would be nice to see this "informal" study. So this just remains an anecdotal recommendation.
Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I do ear insufflation. Have a sauna as well, but it takes a lot more time so I generally just do the ozone in the ears.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Thank you Andrew. I started using yesterday.
I'm not sure how to tell how beneficial when doing so many other things.. except if it causes a major detox reaction.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
R62 - good luck! Be sure to report back any findings. I've been interested in singlet O2 for awhile but am busy with other treatments right now.
Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I haven't heard back from Dr. Saul (the renowned expert on ozone) about the babesia yet, but I did go digging through his archives and he insists that LACK of oxidation is actually the pathological cause of many chronic illnesses and that the push for anti-oxidants is just a bandaid that doesn't address root cause. I will be reading his book, "The Story of Ozone" shortly
This is very interesting, and seems to make sense on an evolutionary level.. which is why Cheney's theory about 'oxygen toxicity" never sat well with me. If we're poisoned by oxygen, why should we even bother?? Even Cheney admits that this oxygen toxicity is a downstream issue rather than causative issue of CFIDS.
Many on the ozone yahoo group (many lyme and CFS patients ) seem to have really great results from ozone sauna and insufflation.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Here is Dr. Saul's response from ozonetherapy@yahoogroups (he gave me permission to post here):
----------------------------------------------
Dear Joey,
Someone has been telling you pretty stupid things. Babesia is wiped out on contact by ozone.
Ozone is O2 + O1. The O1 is singlet oxygen. Regardless of what it is called, Valkion or Eng3 is ozone. In the same way, Aran is ozone. These are marketing ploys to avoid FDA censure, since the FDA is dead set against ozone. Similarly, we label our ozone generators "water purifiers" to avoid the same problem.
Best of health! Dr. Saul Pressman
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
It sounds though that singlet is a component of ozone but not full ozone? Wouldn't it be the active form of ozone that has been broken down by the body?
I wonder if you can make ozonated oils from the valkion.. no way to make a sauna from it.
Thank you, Joey.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Err... I'm no expert in this area, but isn't breathing ozone a BIG no-no? If the Valkion and eng3 were emitting breathable ozone - well, that would be very bad, right?
Something doesn't add up here...
Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I think he meant they are derivations of ozone... obviously the singlet oxygen is not ozone. Also, considering the singlet in valkion degrades to oxygen by the time it reaches the body,you can't say they are realy all that similar. Valkion=oxygen plus energy in form of photon? Ozone=starts as ozone, still ozone when in blood
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Wow - the "Story of Ozone" site is fascinating and educational! I need to read the rest of this tomorrow. Who knew ozonated olive oil gel makes an "excellent lubricant for intercourse"?
m0Joey, you will have to be the first to try out and report back on "bladder insufflation" ;-)
Interestingly, my first LLMD (an MD) gave me autohemotherapy in his office, withdrawing (what looked to me like) large amounts of my blood, exposing it to ozone, and putting it back in. I remember how bright red it would get in the bag. It was a long time ago, and now I don't remember how well it worked for me.
Now I'm wondering if it was legal for him to do that here in CA...
All of this talk of ozone has piqued my interest in trying it again.
Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Here is a non-Pressman M.D. weighing the pros and cons of ozone...comparing the purely academic view vs. the clinical observation view, and argues that ultimately, ozone may have a net net antioxidant effect by oxygenating the tissues of the chronically un-oxygenated and "diminishes oxidosis."
posted
Andrew--That's quite a fancy name for IV ozone. That's what some of us did in Dr. W's office.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymeberry
Unregistered
posted
Can you pay and go try an ozone sauna somewhere?
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posted
Yes. I will probably do that as soon as I get the green light to do it. This is long-term brainstorming.. I don't plan on doing this until my body is ready. For slow detoxifiers, it's necessary to inch our way into something that kills this effectively or else we'll pay the price. I imagine that even if we'd done only IV ozone at Dr. W's office, he would've followed with IV drainage therapy
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sparkle7
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Member # 10397
posted
I wouldn't put too much trust in what Dr. Ali says... I went to see him & found he was (putting it mildly) - less than I expected.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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infection-->cellular hypoxia-->increase in free radicals and impaired production of antioxidants
Supplying antioxidants address the last step but doesn't resolve the vicious cycle of cellular hypoxia.
With ozone or oxygen, mitochondria can produce ATP (38 molecules vs. 2 without oxygen) and cells can 1) product sufficient antioxidants on their own again and 2) detoxify the toxins that interfered with free radicals/antioxidant neutralization. We need to remember that all the yin and yangs of our body should be doing a little dance.. the goal is get them to do the dance again, not to label them good cop bad cop and give the good cop permanent crutches (ahem antioxidants)
So ozone is actually restoring the antioxidant capabilities of our body.
Also, the singlet oxygen acts as a free radical that oxidizes cells/bacteria/viruses that don't have antioxidant production. So pretty much it kills everything save the healthy cells that are still producing plenty of antioxidants to shield against the singlet. Pretty amazing mechanism of elimination huh?
We tend to look at toxic buildup in an increasingly toxic world with resignation, but without these toxins, would those of us with CFS symptoms even be chronically-fatigued?
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Joey, your PM is full!
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
To prep my body for the ozone sauna, I'm gonna start adding hydrogen peroxide to my epsom salt/baking soda/EDTA baths. Combined with the rizols I'm taking, this should be a good way to inch into a more oxidative state.
Just about finished with his book, where he describes disease in the Enderlein mold...ozone is just as important for killing as it is restoring the optimal milieu, or cell environment.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sparkle7
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posted
I went to see Dr Ali in the beginning days of my illness. His office is in NJ & he also has a Manhattan office - right in the middle of tick country. He gave me an Elissa test. That was it. No further testing for Lyme. So, he just went along with the Fibromyalgia diagnosis.
He gave me a basic protocol for hydrogen peroxide drips & lots of supplements that are his own brand.... so many, that I vomited - which I rarely do. It's kind of a long story but he did spend at least one of my consultation sessions telling me about his own health problems which included a mole that was recently removed from his face.
He does not want to comply with any requests for disability since he feels that his protocol is enough to cure people completely & it's the patient's fault if they don't get well.
He's a complete egotist... He also has a radio show in NYC where he is the personal physician of the station manager. It's obvious that he was given the job after they booted Gary Null - who was very popular.
His "followers" are fairly mindless & are looking for a guru figure... I had many conversations with them while getting the hydrogen peroxide drips - that I didn't need.
Bottom line - he completely missed the fact that I had Lyme all those years ago. If I had been given a more thorough diagnosis, it may have saved me years of suffering.
In my opinion - the guy is an egotistical ignoramus. He's incompetent & he thinks he knows everything. It's a bad combination in a personality that one looks towards as a healer.
I would not take anything he says seriously. The guy is a joke. I know he came out with a book that gave credibility to chronic fatigue syndrome at a time when it was not taken seriously... but after I spent $1000s - I regretted spending one dime on him.
It's just a holistic money factory for a bloated ego. I would avoid him.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I was never considering seeing him or suggesting anyone else see him. If you read the article closely you'll see it was a balanced comparison of clinical ozone observations vs. academic theories by a MD. That's all.. I wasn't talking about lyme or character.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
I wasn't sure if you wanted to know this. I can delete it if it's too harsh.
Since it was a personal situation with me... I tend to be a bit more opinionated about him.
It different when you read an article or book or hear his radio show. I thought he was pretty reasonable until I went to see him. Sometimes it's like that with "famous" doctors, unfortunately.
They can become a cult of their own personality...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
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posted
PS - good luck with the ozone.
How are the foot baths working out?
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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The foot baths are going well... I'm still on Mode 1..the manufacterer says usually 4-6x on Mode 1 and you can move on... I think I've done 10x and my doc says I still can't move up (there are 3 modes, the higher modes mean more negative ions so more detox)
Detoxing is a mother isn't it =)
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Cass A
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posted
Dear Scott,
An ND friend of mine uses H2O2 orally, in combination with inversion, for treating autistic kids.
I've tried it out at home myself, as I have neuroborelliosis, with white spots in my brain, according to an MRI.
You need to use FOOD GRADE H2O2 which is DILUTED WITH DISTILLED WATER!! What you can get at a health food store is way, way too strong, and can burn the tissues of the mouth and esophagus.
Anyway, I also put mine into orange juice, drank it down, and then spent about 15 minutes inverting (usually not all the way).
It does seen to help some. I'm not doing it at this time, as I'm taking the AI drops.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Here is an exchange by Dr. Pressman and a few others on combinating 03 and H202 (both ingested and bath):
Does your advice also apply if a person is drinking ozonated water and doing hydrogen peroxide baths or just if the person is ingesting the hydrogen peroxide?
What about drinking ozonated water (between meals) and using some of the oxygen products on the market such as oxygen elements plus, oxymune or cellfood (with meals)? ---------------------------------------------------
Dear xxxx,
There won't be a problem if you are drinking ozonated water and bathing in water with hydrogen peroxide in it.
There won't be a problem with other supplements since you are drinking the ozonated water on an empty stomach.
Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman ----------------------------------------------------
> Dear xxxx,
> Don't do H2O2 and ozonated water together. You might make OH-, > hydroxyl, which is even more powerful than ozone, and is too strong > for medical use. > > Best of Health! > Dr. Saul Pressman
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
To sum it up, he is saying it's ok to do ozonated water and oils (which I'm taking) and hydrogen peroxide baths on the same day as long as they're 3 hours apart, but not ok to combine ozone & H202 ingestion because it forms hydroxl.
Now I can go get that 35% H202 to bath in!! Wasn't sure about combining it with rizols at first...
[ 05-04-2009, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: m0joey ]
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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I am wondering if the body handles ozone differently than hydrogen peroxide? For instance, if a person has Hydrogen peroxide baths, is there a different chemical reaction in the body than what occurs with ozone saunas? thanks for the reply xxxx
Th body makes both hydrogen peroxide and ozone internally.
The body produces catalase to specifically control hydrogen peroxide. When you cut yourself and pour hydrogen peroxide on the cut, the foaming you see when it contacts the blood is due to the effect of catalase on the hydrogen.
When a person bathes in a hydrogen peroxide bath, the hydrogen is prevented from entering the body. This is not so when you drink hydrogen peroxide. The hydrogen is nauseating when drunk, and the major reason people quit that protocol. There are few people advocating the drinking of hydrogen peroxide these days. Most are content to advocate its use externally.
In the ozone sauna, the stimulus of the steam heat causes the pores to open, allowing ozone to enter into the body. It rapidly reacts with lipids and sets off a cascade of lipid peroxide reactions, eliminating bacteria and viruses and cancer cells on contact, as well as toxins stored in the fat.
A similar process will happen with a hydrogen peroxide bath, but with less effect, since hydrogen peroxide is a considerably weaker oxidant than ozone.
Best of Health! Dr. Saul Pressman
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
scott, can you do ear insufflation at home? if so, how is it done, and what type of ozone machine do you recommend?
posted
The saunas.. is there a way to make one yourself or is it necessary to purchase the expensive units? Given a medical grade ozonator...
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Go to the lymetopics yahoo group & check their files. They came up with an economical way to do the whole setup
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I am now reading Dr. Pressman's other book, "The Owner's Manual For The Human Body". This guy is absolutely brilliant on both end of the medical chasm (even oxygenbabe agrees), so I want to learn everything I possibly can from him.
This book is more comprehensive/holistic and goes into protocols for specific diseases including lyme and cfs.
His wife had CFS and is now cured (completely) for 6 years after using a holistic approach with ozone as the mainstay
posted
My doctor tested me for liver flush, and said I need to wait another 3 weeks before I do ONE. Dr. Pressman wants us to do SEVEN before we start the ozone... especially us CFS types.
bah humbug. But if waiting it out saves me from the herx of the century when I start ozone, her caveat will be worth its weight in gold.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sparkle7
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posted
When I did the liver flush - I didn't herx. I had an adverse reaction from toxins &/or gall stones moving around. I don't think my big issue is Lyme any more. I have an accumulation of toxins that have probably been stored in my liver for many years. The liver is quite resilient.
You may want to try things to loosen up the gall stones in the liver prior to your flush, Joey. There are things you can do. One of them is to do an apple fast. I read the malic acid in apples can loosen up the stones.
You may also expel parasites. Do some research on it. There are things to do to lead up to the big flush. Another thing you can do is castor oil packs. Some people drink a lemon blended in 1 & 1/2 cup of water with a tbs. of olive oil for 5 days. There are different versions of the liver flush. You can do one that is more moderate.
Do you drink juices? Beet juice is good for the liver in moderation as well as some of the others - carrots, etc. Milk Thistle is protective of the liver.
I also read about a hydrogen peroxide therapy with using a nasal spray bottle & inhaling the hydrogen peroxide.... I forgot the exact formula & dosage. It's probably on the internet if you do a search.
Seems like ozone is strong stuff - you may want to take breaks every so often. Doesn't seem like something one would want to overdo...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Yes I've done multiple other types of cleanses and am currently doing paleocleanse, paloegreens and hepopat mainly. I also do daily apple cider vinegar + lemon juice.
I've also been killing parasites and now doing H202 baths.
Despite all that I'm still getting a no on the flush. Energetic medicine works in funny ways.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
When you are ready for it - your body will let you know.... There must be some reason why it's happening this way for you. There's no rush.
It's pretty intense. I'm glad I did it. I was in bad shape for a couple of weeks, though.
I'm going to do more when it's time. You may also want to try a coffee enema...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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In your research on oxygen (including ozone) therapies, did you come across any info on how they would affect aerobic pathogens, such as Bartonella?
I know there has been some talk about HBOT being detrimental in people with Bart - has this topic come up regarding ozone?
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