posted
I know one can drive themselves crazy trying to diagnose themselves but anyone that's read a few of my other posts know that I'm about ready to go on disability. The clocks ticking and I want to cover all of my bases.
When I first started dealing with all of this back in Jan 2007 we started treating me for Lyme based on 4 symptoms.
*Urethra/prostate pain (I had had for over a year before seeing him) *Occasional insomnia, *Occasional stiff jaw/neck *And the fact that I said at times I felt fatigued (nothing unmanageable).
That's it!
My Western Blot IgM came back positive and my CD57 was a 42.
I did three months of minocycline in increasing doses. I did not change my diet, I did not cut back on any alcohol consumption, and I did not take any probiotics (nobody told me about any of this and at the time I was not researching on my own).
After one particular increase of the minocycline, overnight I developed a combination of extreme insomnia as well as a combination of nuerological issues. This continued for 3 days till I stopped taking the antibiotics.
I stopped everything. I needed to function for my job.
I went 1 1/2 years without experiencing anything other than my original 4 symptoms: urethral pain, occasional sleep issues, occasional neck/jaw and occasional fatigue. No nuerological stuff whatsoever.
With the positive Lyme Test still on my brain though I went back this past Dec 2008.
*Still positive just on the Lyme Igm.
*B Duncani IGM/IGG (new test added) " MAY suggest evidence of infection" (not really a positive or negative)
*Fry Test (new test added) "Suggestive of Hemobartonella or Mycoplasma
*CD57 was now at 90
Same thing. After about 3 months of Zithro/Minocyclin over night I started having problems with headaches, neurological stuff, etc.
Stopped and felt better.
About a month ago (after about 3 weeks of being antibiotic free) I noticed I started having random bouts of some of the neurological/sleeping issues.
Paying attention to it a little closer I noticed that it seemed to be variable based on if I was eating things with a decent amount of sugar content.
I started minocycline/zithro again (this time taking a probiotic luckily) about a week and a half ago rearmed with a lot more education and this time willing to finally do the "full course" and do whatever it takes to fight Lyme which my LLMD has said is the culprit behind everything.
I am so committed and have finally excepted my fate as having Lyme that I am willing to possibly complicate my job to fight this.
This morning I stumbled upon a few articles on Candida and the related symptoms and I started thinking. I did the little "Home Test" as well as the survey for Candida and from what I read it further increased my suspicions.
We all know that these tests that we are taking aren't exactly "fool proof" and here's the deal. My LLMD said that even if I did have positive test he wouldn't treat me for Lyme without symptoms.
Well to review...the only symptom I have that seems to be "out of the ordinary" is the urethral pain.
The "neurological" symptoms I seem to experience I can now trace to one of 3 things.
*Alcohol (which yes I have quit altogether now I am educated)
*Sugar (I've tried to "cheat" a few times and by the end of the day I feel it)
*Antibiotics (which really could just be a combination of it and the above two)
The little I've read on this today I am highly suspicious of my new find of "Candida". I'm not dismissing Lyme. I mean the test say I have reason to keep it on the radar.
But if we are truly going to "treat the symptoms" here, compared to everyone else I see on this board I don't seem to be completely "fitting the mold".
Any thoughts based on my quick review of things?
Do my suspicions even fit here or do I need to take off my "House" hat and start focusing all of my energy on Lyme?
Again I would probably rate my knowledge of Candida at 2 on a 1-10 scale.
[ 04-19-2009, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Flyinpiker ]
Posts: 101 | From Living in the Now | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Dear Flyinpiker, I believe you are right, and it is a combination of these factors. Candida and Lyme tend to play off of each other. That is why I began pursuing Lyme. I knew the yeast reacts badly to vinegar. Even a small amount of ketchup or salad dressing, and excruciating reflux results. All you want is some food with taste!
Is that so wrong? My feet will smell like pickles the next day! The Candida is that bad. When I took the test on Dr. Crook's Yeast Connection site, I scored a whopping 350. There are some testing methods that can identify which issue is the most stressful to your immune system.
Some physicians prefer not to treat Lyme before building the immune system. If the immune system is too fragile, antibiotics can make the situation worse. Candida is notorious for causing this. A congested liver is typical of those with a yeast overgrowth. Your liver filters out all of the toxins put into your body, and if this is what is happening, antibiotics may actually poison you instead until your liver is decongested.
posted
Thanks Jin! I think He must have re-weighted the points. =) Excellent site!
I took the test and came up with a 15.
(he said if your score is 10 or more, your health problems are almost certainly yeast-connected)
Lyme Ed,
Nope my doctor has not confirmed I have both. In fact as I mentioned in my post he hasn't mentioned Candida at all...only Lyme.
I am also concerned that in 2007 I wasn't on a probiotic (they did have me on them this past time) and that diet or lifestyle changes have never been mentioned (but I will be mentioning at my next appointment!). I really like my doctor but am a little confused here.
I don't care what ends up being wrong or right here but my main concern is that the neurological symptoms are what are prompting me to go on disability.
It is a safety precaution based on my past experiences.
Now if there is an reasonable alternative explanation, and I can reasonably have the expectation it can be controlled (like it has been the past two weeks, but then again I am just restarting the antibiotics)...
I might not be so quick to pull the disability cord until I can confirm the neurological symptoms can be directly traced to Lyme or a Lyme "Herx".
Posts: 101 | From Living in the Now | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Dear Flyinpiker, I would be concerned that your doctor does not seem to be curious about the yeast. As LymeED described, it is quite common to have both. In fact, Lyme tends to be part of a nasty trifecta of Borrelia, Yeast, and Metals (usually mercury). Do you have any metal fillings in your mouth? Sometimes to protect your body, the immune system uses the yeast to shield the organs from mercury.
The Yeast Connection is wonderful. I have the book, and that protocol is still the most recommended today. They may have changed the test since I last did it. My trouble is, going low carbohydrate is dangerous with hypoglycemia, so I am thinking about trying the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. More healthy probiotics like Kirkman may be necessary as well.
I think I have "The Yeast Connection" on hold at the library (it's currently checked out) so I'm glad you suggested it!
Also I don't have any mercury fillings, but I do have a permanent retainer...would that do anything?
I found the heavier weighted scale.
I scored a 149! (more than 140 in men is Yeast connected health problems are almost certainly present).
I have my long thought about 2nd opinion appointment with an Infectious Disease doctor for the first time this morning.
I know with all of the controversy we have plenty to be skeptical about in visiting them but honestly I should have done this a long time ago. I almost think I've been scared to hear what they are going to say this whole time.
Let's face it...the initial symptoms that we started treatment based on really aren't that strong. But then there are my test results...we'll see! I don't plan on saying anything about Candida till the very end so if they want to give the thumbs down on lyme they are going to have to come up with something better than "your crazy"on their own to get me to even blink.
I'm not counting my LLMD out. I think he is a great doctor and I have a lot of faith in him. We have an appointment set up for Wed. Will see what they have to say as well.
Posts: 101 | From Living in the Now | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Dear Flyinpiker, That book is great! It gives you a lot of helpful tips and information. Yeast is so difficult to treat, and there are a lot of explanations about symptoms. Some were surprising. Read about Charlie Swaart, "The Drinkless Drunk".
The permanent retainer could be an issue if it is made of certain metals or plastic. Bio-compatibility is a problem for many Lyme patients. That is good to hear you have no mercury fillings. Mercury can enter your system through consuming fish and some other ways as well, but fillings really up the ante.
It appears you have a yeast issue. I completely understand why you have skepticism. Doctors can only utilize information they were taught. Medical school taught them little when it comes to Lyme and many other health issues. Candida is often said to not even be a possible cause of illness, because doctors just do not want to accept it as one.
The word crazy seems to be the only one many doctors know. If they have no idea what is wrong, then you are automatically a lunatic. Another thing physicians tend to do is use a catch-all. When stomach issues are of unknown origin, they tell you it is IBS. All they do is give you pills that do not help, and send you on your happy way.
You need to identify the cause of the illness, not just treat symptoms. The root of your misery must be identified. It is good to hear your LLMD is one you trust. Staying with a doctor you know has your best interest in mind is essential. You are off to a good start!
posted
Dear Lymetoo, My trouble is, my blood sugar gets so low. I tried going low-carb, and it nearly killed me. You really have to starve the yeast, and I have no idea how to do that diet with my blood sugar dropping. This is what has been holding me back on killing off the Candida. It is so frustrating!
posted
How do you know you actually have a Candida overgrowth situation? Are the symptoms continuous or do they only show themselves when eating certain foods?
Is there a difference between being a lyme patient with yeast issues and actually being diagnosed with Candida?
Posts: 101 | From Living in the Now | Registered: Mar 2009
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Can candida be cured in 15 days with strict diet, meds, and supplements?
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
If you can't go no sugar, at least go low sugar. eat foods that are low on the glycemic index. You'd be surprised what's available to you.
Most anti-candida diets say no fruit, but you can eat fruit that's low on the scale. For example, red apples are relatively high and are a no no, but green apples are pretty low. I eat one a day.
I don't have blood sugar issues per se, but since I am out exercising, if I do a strict no-carb diet I lose weight like crazy... and I don't have any left to lose.
There's a website with a great database for looking up just about any food -- http://www.glycemicindex.com -- but it looks like the database is down.
posted
Dear Lymetoo, I can eat vegetables every two hours or so, but my glucose still drops. Nuts I can eat, but am limited due to the Candida. Cashews, peanuts, and pistachios are moldy. After the recent food poisoning outbreaks, eating is even more scary than before. It is bad enough to have to worry about getting violently ill from a microscopic amount of gluten, but then all of this awful insanity.
Nuts also do not have a lot of carbs, and my gallbladder being out forces limitations on fat. Still, I can tolerate a decent amount on a good day. To give you an idea as to how badly my blood sugar drops, one night, I ate half of a box of Crunch'n Munch, which is loaded with sugar. When I took my glucose level, it was only 76 after eating it. There is no telling how low it was before that.
Dear Flyinpiker, There are some cues you may want to look for. Is your tongue coated in white in the morning when you wake up? Do you have rashes that appear out of nowhere like eczema or psoriasis? Are you having difficulty concentrating? Does your stomach bother you with reflux or bowel issues like constipation or diarrhea?
Certain foods may irritate the yeast more. It often flares when you eat fermented foods, sugar, vinegar, and alcohol. Yeast in bread will give me diarrhea and stomach cramps. Vinegar gives me terrible reflux. I also have noticed burning in my stomach when I eat certain foods on an empty stomach. Usually, fruits do this.
There are people who have yeast that do not have Lyme. Most people with Lyme have yeast overgrowth either as a result of long-term abx use, or the yeast was present due to alterations in hormones, use of steroids, and a carbohydrate-rich diet. I was on the trifecta from Hell for this. I had Bronchitis often from infancy until my late teens, resulting in taking 2 to 4 courses of abx per year. Steroids were prescribed for my asthma and were used from ages 10 to 18, and at 17 I was placed on Depo-Provera to stop the cysts and anemia.
Dear seekhelp, In some people, Candida can be cured that quickly. It is not typical, though. Whether or not there are additional complicating factors is important. A friend of mine had mercury poisoning, and her body would not let go of the Candida because it was using it to protect the inner organs from being damaged by the mercury. Your body is smart, and will use whatever defense mechanism it has.
Dear Chronic Triathlete, I am quite familiar with the glycemic index, because my father is diabetic. I know kiwi is low on the index. Fruit never gets my glucose up enough. Honey helps, though. It is allowed on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, which I have been thinking about trying. Many people have had good results with it. The entire situation has been so hard to deal with!
Sincerely, Jin
P.S. Cinnamon is supposed to be helpful in balancing blood sugar, but it makes me sick. A friend of mine did some research and discovered it destroys Candida. This makes sense why I got so ill. It must have been a die-off reaction! No more cinnamon for me!
posted
Thank you so much for spending the time on that very informative post Jin!
Cashews, Peanut Butter (even all natural no sugar/sweetner), and of course sugar based things such as goodies and dried fruit have gotten a response so it looks like I'm on the right track.
The tongue is definitely white, but I'd have to look at someone else's to compare. I also get mystery rashes all of the time. Concentration definitely is variable based on antibiotics and various foods. Either way I think I definitely have enough to voice concern to the doc.
I kind of had a knee jerk reaction and started following a strict Candida diet, but have since backed off into a more Lyme smart diet. Wow that Candida diet is hard!!!! I feel for you.
Hopefully my situation isn't that dire and I will be able to get by on the lyme smart diet till I address this with the doc.
Thank you again for all of your posts though, without them I don't think I would have realize just how much of an effect my diet can be playing a daily roll in my overall well being!
Posts: 101 | From Living in the Now | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Jin: Some physicians prefer not to treat Lyme before building the immune system. If the immune system is too fragile, antibiotics can make the situation worse. Candida is notorious for causing this. A congested liver is typical of those with a yeast overgrowth. Your liver filters out all of the toxins put into your body, and if this is what is happening, antibiotics may actually poison you instead until your liver is decongested.
Jin, what should a doctor do if this is the case? I think that is what is happening with me. How should a doctor treat you for the yeast and decongest/detox your liver, and for how long, before starting antibiotics?
Thanks, electrolite
-------------------- I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then. Posts: 128 | From Dallas, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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Nice!!! Yeah I caught that from Jin's post =)
It was funny because I had systematically been eliminating sugar to eliminate the weird neurological responses I was getting.
I knew peanut butter had sugar in it and had raced out to buy some all natural stuff to dip celery in. Sure enough it still occurred!
The peanut butter and cashews giving me what I thought was the "sugar" response didn't make sense till now. Thank guys!!!
I'm on day 2 of Rifamphin and was fully expecting to have the neurological symptoms by now...hopefully diet control might be a new breakthrough for me in my responses to antibiotics.
Couldn't have done it without this board...somehow that fact slipped through the cracks of my doctor's appointments.
Posts: 101 | From Living in the Now | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: I've said for YEARS on this site that if you don't clear the yeast, how will you know when you are "finished" with Lyme treatment?
The symptoms overlap SO MUCH. So how can you tell??
YOU CAN'T!!!
It all comes back to this very wise quote of yours! It's also true in that how can you mark your progress?
=) Thanks again for all of your help
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
You can get a copy of the Candida Connection on Amazon for $3 --
Like the others have said Candida and Lyme go hand in hand with each other--
Candida was One of my first symptoms--
Feeling worse when taking ABX is a Good sign- it means the Bugs are Dying --Herx--
No Booze- its about the worst thing you can do-
Tests for Lyme and Co Infections are very poor- Useally False Negatives-- False Positive are Very Rare --Jay
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Dear Flyinpiker, You are so welcome! Information is of no use unless it is shared! If I can help someone in any way, it is worth the effort! Candida is really difficult to destroy.
Yes, the mold content is why you are reacting to the dried fruit most likely. People with Candida become very sensitive to any form of mold. Valencia peanuts are the only kind of peanut that does not have the naturally existing aflatoxins that the regular ones have. I actually did not react to that. The trouble is finding a gluten-free version. I found out there were cross-contamination issues with the brand I was getting.
I actually did a saliva test. It seemed so primitive, but some others told me it is actually quite accurate. What you do is, upon waking in the morning immediately, spit into a glass of water. Do not drink or eat anything before doing this. Healthy saliva should float at the top, while Candida-infested saliva will sink. Mine sunk like a rock in one long, nasty string. If the water is cloudy, that also indicates yeast overgrowth.
I get eczema on my scalp,hands, and break out in hives all the time for no apparent reason. I am allergic to dyes and always have been, and they are in everything, even my medications. Avoiding them is quite difficult. Concentration is certainly ruined when you are on abx, because they do make the yeast go crazy, plus herxes from Borrelia dying. Bringing yeast up to the doctor is a good idea.
The Candida Diet is so frustrating! Vinegar really irritates my system. There are 20 big no-no's you are supposed to avoid on a list. I still have not been able to do it all the way due to the hypoglycemia. Right now, I am making a list of healthy substitutions. Every little bit helps! If you want the list, feel free to PM me.
You may not have as severe a case of Candida. Women tend to get the more severe instances. I strongly suspect there is an estrogen link. Diet is very important. I actually am thinking about going back to doing The Zone Diet. Dr. Barry Sears believes food should be treated like a drug, and carbohydrates, fats, and proteins should be consumed in a specific formula.
Dear electrolite, In the event the liver is congested, a Naturopath or other qualified alternative health practitioner can put you on herbs. Certain herbs are excellent purifiers, such as Dandelion or Milk Thistle. A special diet may be in order, which usually involved completely avoiding processed foods and sugar. Abx may undo the good you have done once you get rid of the yeast. A doctor may place you on an anti-fungal drug such as Nystatin or Diflucan while you take antibiotics. Another option is to follow an herbal Lyme protocol instead, like full-Cowden.
Dear Lymetoo, I think my immune system is probably overwhelmed by the Candida. It is doubtful Lyme treatment will be able to occur until the yeast is under control. I also have found I am addicted to peanuts and peanut butter! Mold is some of it, but I also believe I need the Niacin. Peanuts have 20 percent of your daily needed amount per serving.
Dear groovy2, I have that book as well! It is terrific. Owning them is better when you possible. Whenever you need them, you can go back to it. I agree that booze is bad news! I never liked it anyway, but two sips will make my stomach burn for hours.
posted
Jin, thanks for your reply about the liver and yeast.
Also, you said: "I also have found I am addicted to peanuts and peanut butter!"
Have you tried almond butter or cashew butter? They are both so tasty, nutritious and even better than peanut butter.
-------------------- I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then. Posts: 128 | From Dallas, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Dear electrolite, Yes, I have tried cashew butter and almond butter. Cashews are also moldy, so they should be avoided as well. Maranatha makes a really good almond butter. I just cannot always go across town to get some! You are welcome about the information on yeast and liver detoxing!
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Vinegar gives me terrible reflux. I also have noticed burning in my stomach when I eat certain foods on an empty stomach. Usually, fruits do this.![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)
I had Bronchitis often from infancy until my late teens, resulting in taking 2 to 4 courses of abx per year. Steroids were prescribed for my asthma and were used from ages 10 to 18, and at 17 I was placed on Depo-Provera to stop the cysts and anemia.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Whether or not there are additional complicating factors is important. A friend of mine had mercury poisoning, and her body would not let go of the Candida because it was using it to protect the inner organs from being damaged by the mercury. Your body is smart, and will use whatever defense mechanism it has.![[puke]](graemlins/puke.gif)
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