disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
Anyone else here have trigger finger or fingers? Or is that even the right word for what I'm thinking?
If I go to grab anything or try to carry something heavy, my fingers/hands will stiffen up and 'trigger finger(s)' happens. Sometimes even using the key to get into the house, this happens.
I was at the doctors today and he asked me to squeeze his finger and I did with each hand and this happened. It's nothing new, of course... it's been happening now since I got ill in 2007. Anyone else have this and is it common with lyme/co-infections?
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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lpkayak
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Member # 5230
posted
real trigger finger does not necessarily have to go with lyme. i had lyme...but the hand doc was very clear about what it was and how to fix it. he said it is very common and often happens in 40s. i had it fixed surgically-i didn't have to go to sleep and talked to the nurses the whole time. it was easy to fix-not very painful-and it has worked fine now for over 10 yrs
i also had carpel tunnel before lyme got bad and many other surgeries.
i always say it is important not to blame everything on lyme. if it is easy to fix, do it to cut your pain load down.
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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My first trigger fingers showed up when I was 23 years old. Carpel tunnel in both hands, then, too. That's about the time I go so ill with what they said was fibromyalgia. Doctor wanted to operate but I was not confident in that working.
I have had nearly all my fingers be triggers at one time or another but due to severe startle reaction surgery is out of the question for me and now I really have no good doctor who can tell me what is going on.
One thing - do not push it. Gentle massage may help but don't force the finger or you can damage them further. Ice helps me.
I hope you find a excellent hand specialist who will also help you with erognomics of your wrist and entire body.
For newcomers who may read this, steroid shots into joints can make lyme worse so if a doctor suggests that, consult your LLMD first for precautions. I will say that several very painful steroid shots did help for a year or more at times but I got much worse and nearly couldn't walk afterward (before I knew that I should not - before I knew I had lyme).
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Some trigger fingers are better but mine seem to rotate (but that may just be me). If you've seen a P.T. and done certain techniques it may be time to see a surgeon. Many others have certainly been helped.
Be sure to ask if they will use any steroids and, if so, first ask your LLMD about that.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Hey LP... and Disturbed Me....
Back in the early 1990's I had trigger finger develop and it was nasty and I couldn't get it to "undo" or "unlock" some of the time.
I KNEW it was connected to Lyme but NOBODY believed me. Doctor after doctor said "No, that doesn't happen with Lyme."
They were wrong.
And as was typical... two years later THERE it was... the proof I needed. They found the spirochetes in the ligaments and tendon tissue.
Do note- this was a biopsy that was done on the tissue removed during surgery for a trigger finger.
PLEASE read what it says. It is strong support for persistence. Pay close attention to the LAST LINE.
Arthritis Rheum. 1993 Nov;36(11):1621-6.
Persistence of Borrelia burgdorferi in ligamentous tissue from a patient with chronic Lyme borreliosis.
H�upl T, Hahn G, Rittig M, Krause A, Schoerner C, Sch�nherr U, Kalden JR, Burmester GR.
Department of Medicine III, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany.
OBJECTIVE. To document the persistence of Borrelia burgdorferi in ligamentous tissue samples obtained from a woman with chronic Lyme borreliosis.
METHODS. Spirochetes were isolated from samples of ligamentous tissue, and the spirochetes were characterized antigenetically and by molecular biology techniques.
The ligamentous tissue was examined by electron microscopy.
Humoral and cellular immune responses were analyzed.
RESULTS. Choroiditis was the first recognized manifestation of Lyme disease in this patient.
Despite antibiotic therapy, there was progression to a chronic stage, with multisystem manifestations.
The initially significant immune system activation was followed by a loss of the specific humoral immune response and a decrease in the cellular immune response to B burgdorferi over the course of the disease.
"Trigger finger" developed, and a portion of the flexor retinaculum obtained at surgery was cultured.
Viable spirochetes were identified.
Ultramorphologically, the spirochetes were situated between collagen fibers and along fibroblasts, some of which were deeply invaginated by these organisms.
The cultured bacteria were identified as B burgdorferi by reactions with specific immune sera and monoclonal antibodies, and by polymerase chain reaction amplification and Southern blot hybridization techniques.
CONCLUSION. To our knowledge, this is the first report of the isolation of B burgdorferi from ligamentous tissue.
This suggests that tendon tissues serve as a specific site of spirochete residence in human hosts.
disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
quote:Originally posted by lpkayak:
he said it is very common and often happens in 40s. i always say it is important not to blame everything on lyme. if it is easy to fix, do it to cut your pain load down.
I agree that not everything is lyme, but I am only 25 years old... and it first started when I first started going downhill which was around 22 or so years old.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
that was written about you tin??? neat!!!
i don't doubt lyme has something to do with it-and probably with the carpel tunnel and for sure i believe it was lyme and the occasional steroid shot (before i knew better) that wrecked my knees in my 30's
i just got new ones last year (58)
i have sent in so much tissue from so many surgeries but something always goes wrong and i never got a pos that way
my point about the trigger finger surgery was that it was easy and took a pain away
but it IS real impt to have a good doc when they got into your hands,...lots of nerves in a small space
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
Wow, tincup. Thank you for that information!!!!
Geez, makes me want to actually have a biopsy to have my tissue looked at for spirochetes... but don't want to have surgery on my hands as my trigger finger isn't as bad as some peoples' seem to be.
Fortunately, it only happens when I'm holding something heavy or grabbing something, or using my hands a LOT and they don't stick for long periods of time thankfully. They trigger for a while and will go back to normal. But then my hands will ache for a while after that.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Hey LP...
I am sorry. I just reread the post I wrote.
MY Lyme or lame brain.
You are right.... it does sound like it was me... but it wasn't.
What I meant to say was I finally found evidence it could happen and does happen.
I never had a LLMD over the years.... and had to read and learn all I could from day one to save my own butt.
So I meant to say.... I watched all the literature as it came out to draw conclusions so I could help myself....
And this was a big "hit" proving my case of persistance when they were telling me I couldn't still have Lyme.
One of those throw it in their faces, "I TOLD you so!" moments.
Pain that is heavy and hard from active infection while they keep saying NO active infection... makes you crazy!
Yo Disturbed...
I know it sounds cool.. but don't be volunteering for surgery just to see the keets! HA!
I said the same thing though when thinking about that... so I am just as guilty.
BTW- I tried everything to fix it. You name it... I rubbed it on, swallowed it, bathed in it, etc.. and NOTHING relieved the pain.
This went on with a locked up finger that would NOT open.. for over a year. Doctor after doctor and no one could fix it.
So finally I begged a doctor to do an x-ray or something.. and he sent me for an MRI of the hand.
An hour or so later.. for the first time in over a year.. the finger opened up and was fine.
In two days you'd never known I ever had a problem.
The doc explained the MRI (M stands for magnetic) is sometimes used as a therapy tool.
The magnets rearranged the cells or whatever... I wasn't listening I was still in shock it was all better... and bingo.. it was ok again.
just don
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1129
posted
Word of advice
Dont put your finger ON the trigger!! BAD things can happen that way!@!! -smile-
Actually I used to have a bad case of this too. Must be the osteo bi-flex as a fix of glucosamine/clondritin
-------------------- just don Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001
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disturbedme
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posted
lol don!
Anyone else???
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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just don: your comment sparked memory of this (I don't know what it means for regular glucosamine, though:
3/4 of the way down in the article below: "A popular treatment for arthritis includes the administration of chondroitin sulfate and N-acetylglucosamine.
If the arthritis is Lyme-induced, N-acetylglucosamine is contraindicated.22 (See Chart 14.)" -
nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
Hey disturbedme! Did you notice in Tincup's copy of that Rheumatology article that they mentioned the case patient's depletion of her immune response??
This could be helpful for your SSI argument - I will copy it there for you so it's all in one place.
quote: "Despite antibiotic therapy, there was progression to a chronic stage, with multisystem manifestations.
The initially significant immune system activation was followed by a loss of the specific humoral immune response and a decrease in the cellular immune response to B burgdorferi over the course of the disease...
posted
YES, trigger finger can be Lyme. It is almost definitely Lyme if you have other Lyme symptoms.
Tincup: Very interesting, last year I came upon that same case history you quoted, and it's what convinced me that I had to have Lyme.
I had just developed trigger finger in several of my fingers, almost overnight. My hands would close in a clenched position when I was at rest, and my fingers had to be pried open, very carefully.
Trigger finger can definitely be Lyme. So can carpal tunnel, DeQuervain's tendonitis, all of which I've had.
Trigger-finger is a tendon issue. Borrelia LOVES tendons, ligaments, and cartilage. Very little blood cirulation in these tissues..
which means very little oxygen. Borrelia hates oxygen. It's an anaerobic bacteria.
I know now that most of my musculo-skeletal problems - shoulders, back, neck, hands - over the past 15 years or so, have been caused by Lyme.
I've had seven orthopedic surgeries in just the last 5 years, with four of them all in one year. Lyme Lyme Lyme.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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Yes, Lyme Rage and Trigger-finger can be a very nasty combination!
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
I've got pains in my fingers, and I've had involuntary movements, but so far they haven't stiffened up.
Posts: 743 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2009
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