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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Alcohol and Lyme

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Author Topic: Alcohol and Lyme
CathyMary
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I didn't know that until I came here that alcohol

use was forbidden with lyme, until I came here.

Does Lyme thrive on it like sugar? or Is it because

of the antibiotic use?

I use to drink a few beers and Kahlua on a weekly

basis but had no desire what so ever when I got

sick. I din't even drink on my birthday nor will

I at the Red Sox game tomorrow night, two

occassions that would of been a no brainer for

me. Did this happen to anyone else?

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lemonsnotlymes
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I would say it is all of the above.

Some additional thoughts:

Your liver is already going through a lot, so why put more unnecessary junk in your body?

Alcohol is usually contraindicated with antibiotic use.

Alcohol interferes with proper sleep patterns.

Alcohol has no nutritional value and everything you put in your mouth needs to count in this battle.

Hope that helps.

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Keebler
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-

In addition to the considerations posted above by lemonsnotlymes, alcohol also kills brain cells. It's really a harsh poison to us at this point.


------------------

http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf


Dr. Burrascano'sTreatment Guidelines (2008) - 37 pages

. . .

Excerpt from Page 27:


CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED IF LYME SYMPTOMS ARE TO BE PERMANENTLY CLEARED:


1. Not allowed to get behind in sleep, or become overtired.


2. No caffeine or other stimulants that may affect depth or duration of sleep, or reduce or eliminate naps.


3. Absolutely no alcohol!


4. No smoking at all.


5. Aggressive exercises are required and should be initiated as soon as possible. (although ". . . aerobics are not allowed. . . ." See p. 31 for rehabilitation guidelines.)


6. Diet must contain generous quantities of high quality protein and be high in fiber and low in fat and carbohydrates - no simple carbohydrates are allowed. Instead, use those with low glycemic index.


7. Certain key nutritional supplements should be added.


8. COMPLIANCE!

. . . .

-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cold Feet
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Furthermore: long term antibiotics + carbos (e.g., alchohol) = candida!

--------------------
My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com
2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia
2006 Positive after 2 years of hell
2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species
2009 - Beating candida, doing better
Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet!

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CathyMary
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Thanks everyone, All good points, I drank much

more pepsi thank alcohol so I'll be sure to check

out the candida issue (I was recently reading

about it, thanks to bettyg).


I previously wrote it wrong i didn't mean I

drank every week I was trying to focus on the

fact that any desire, even socially, to have a

drink, completely went away. Even to the point

that on a special occasion I don't drink.

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lymeHerx001
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sick of answering this question sorry
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Keebler
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-

LymeHerx001,


Many are new to all this.

It is an important question, especially since not everyone is awarded Singleton's book or Burrancano's Guidelines the minute they get lyme.

-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lymeHerx001
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I know keebler, I take that back. I just get so frustrated when people still have a choice of what to avoid.

I for one cannot drink or even have any fermented beverage. And still I do not get answers from numerous doctors.

They look at my liver and throw up their arms.

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Lymeorsomething
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I'd give anything for a good Guinness sometime soon...

--------------------
"Whatever can go wrong will go wrong."

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Keebler
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-

Yeah,

And I'd like to be able to put on some cute high heels and go dancing. In the meantime . . . .

-

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mojo
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Well, I've been cheating a little since I'm feeling better and I know I need to STOP this right now.

Alcohol also hurts our immune system and we are already immune compromised.

So many reasons not to drink.

And I also lost the desire when I was sick - for quite a long time. I didn't even want to take a sip.

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LisaS
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I can't drink anymore. Used to love captain and coke. But now just a couple sips and I feel like I just got off a merry go round. Any more than that and I get weird hangovers. The next day I can hardly move. My legs and arms get this feeling like little sparks ar going off in them. (I know that sounds crazy). And I feel just very sick for three days.

One LLMD told me it was because we herx, because the alcohol kills spirochetes. I've also heard theories on the spirochetes eating the sugar in the alcohol and lots of other stuff.

I posted this question when I first found out I had lyme and I can't find the post but I saved one of the answers:

Pavia CS,
Bittker S,
Cooper D.
Department of Medicine, New York Medical College, Valhalla.

Rats fed excessive amounts of ethanol developed marked hematologic and immunologic changes. These included a reversal of the normal lymphocyte to granulocyte ratio in the peripheral blood, lower spleen and lymph node weights and a greatly reduced capacity to express normal cell mediated immune functions, based on poor lymphocyte reactivity in vivo, and in vitro to T and B cell mitogens and borrelial antigens shortly after primary immunization with the bacterial spirochete, Borrelia burgdorferi. Further evidence for impaired immune function caused by ethanol was based on little or no antibody response against Borrelia in rats following in vivo sensitization with B. burgdorferi incorporated in complete Freund's adjuvant. These findings provide substantial direct evidence strengthening the notion that high levels of ethanol ingestion adversely affect the host immune system and can interfere with the immune response to microorganisms.

HERES ANOTHER


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Spirochetes have a limited metabolism and can only ferment a few types of organic molecules.

They ferment carbohydrates to acetate, ethanol , CO2, and H2 as major end products.

All spirochetes so far examined use the Embden-Meyerhoff-Parnas pathway to take glucose to pyruvate.

Under anaerobic conditions this is converted to acetate and ethanol using common fermentative pathways.

Interestingly, the facultative anaerobes in the group use both oxidative phosphorylation and substrate level phosphorylation in the presence of air and seem to be dependent on at least some fermentation.

The TCA cycle has not been detected in these microbes, and it is unclear how they get their ATP by oxidative phosphorylation.

B. burgdorferi will also move away from ethanol and butanol.

http://www.bact.wisc.edu/Microtextbook/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=110&page=1

Ethanol binds to NMDA receptors in the brain (inhibiting them) and perhaps to GABAA receptors as well.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/D/Drugs.html

Alcohol, neurotransmitter systems, and behavior.
From: The Journal of General Psychology
Date: 10/1/2006

Alcohol affects several neurotransmitter systems within the brain. In this article, the author describes its effects on 5 major ones: glutamate, gamma-amino-butyric acid (GABA), dopamine, serotonin, and opioid systems.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:hhwFBpMyBgUJ:www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-154391000.html+morphine+alcohol+ethanol&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=43&gl=us

Acute ethanol intoxication caused a marked suppression of NK activity in vivo and a tenfold increase in the number of MADB106 tumor metastases.

Ethanol had no effect in rats selectively depleted of NK cells or when an NK-insensitive tumor (C4047) was used.

These findings suggest that even acute ethanol intoxication markedly suppresses NK activity in the living organism.

This suppression may underlie some aspects of the association between alcoholism, infectious disease and malignancies.

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v2/n4/abs/nm0496-457.html

(NK are natural killer cells...our first line of defense against precancerous cells.)

Clin Diagn Lab Immunol. 2002 Mar;9(2):282-6.

Impaired bactericidal activity and host resistance to Listeria monocytogenes and Borrelia burgdorferi in rats administered an acute oral regimen of ethanol.

PMID: 11874864

Vasdev S, Mian T, Longerich L, Prabhakaran V, Parai S.

N-acetyl cysteine attenuates ethanol induced hypertension in rats.
Artery 1995;21(6):312-6

"All known pathways of ethanol metabolism result in the production of acetaldehyde, a highly reactive compound.

N-acetyl cysteine, an analogue of the dietary amino acid cysteine, binds acetaldehyde, thus preventing its damaging effect on physiological proteins.

(Above...unfortunately Bb has "zinc fingers" composed of:cysteine and histidine bound by zinc)


We have a "limited" amt. of the 2 enzymes needed to breakdown alcohol - alcohol deyhdrogenase is the first one. Women have less of this enzyme than do men.

Since the spirochetes are ALREADY fermenting sugar to ethanol/alcohol...adding a drink or two or more...may make things WORSE...significantly.

I have many more ethanol/alcohol files if you need them.

Pay close attention to HOW Flagyl works.

Flagyl + "extra" alcohol = alcohol poisoning (very life threatening).
PMID: 1774157 [PubMed - indexed for MED

--------------------
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660435643

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losferwrds
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I dunno, I drink 8-10 beers a day, maybe I am just an alcoholic and don't have lyme.
I get no pain from lyme, just neuro symptoms and anxiety, and air hunger, I don't even test positive for lyme, only bartonella, I dunno, the anxiety drives me to drink the benzos don't cut it down enuff for me. Right now I am in between doctors and not treating with anything, I did 6 weeks of Ceftin that was unremarkable then 2 weeks of Bactrim that nearly blew my heart out of my chest, I dunno, maybe the right meds will change my stance, but right now after work, I gotta blow down a few colds ones.

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sixgoofykids
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Wow, 8-10 beers per day is a lot. I'd look for a good doctor asap.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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losferwrds
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I have an appt with a new llmd on June 11th, the one I went to for 2 months was a former president of ILADS, so at this point I don't have alot of hope or belief, it no different than a shrink clinically telling me I have GAD, at least I got a positive BART test but what does it mean??, can I even trust it, maybe I just discovered a new protocol, alcohol and benzos, they make you not care your sick!
All I get is chronic anxiety, air hunger, parathesis, myalgia, dizzyness and sore feet, that cold just be hangover

Sorry if I am cynical but 20 years of shrinks feeding me pills for GAD, and now some llmd saying that they were wrong and its all from lyme/bart based on the same clinical symptoms is hard to swallow.

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CathyMary
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Denial is easy to swallow. Deep down do you

really believe that alchol and benzos are making

you forget your sick? or Do you agree with

Everyone that Booze and Lyme do not mix? I'm a

(hopefully soon to be rediagnoised) newbie, but

it seems to me that you were misdiagnoised like

many people. It really sucks. I was told I was

bipolar and put on Lithium for months. Wrong Dx.

I can't tell you about Bart, someone else may.

I don't blame you for being bitter, 20 years

is a long time. But maybe you can channelthat

bitterness into lyme activism and someone else

doesn't have to go through what your going

through. Believe on the 11th, I wish my

appointment was that soon.

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buckfever
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I haven't been able to drink for many years as after I have one or two I get a terrble headache. Its not much fun when you get the hangover before the buzz!
Posts: 97 | From West Chester ,Pa. | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lymeHerx001
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quote:
Originally posted by LisaS:
I can't drink anymore. Used to love captain and coke. But now just a couple sips and I feel like I just got off a merry go round. Any more than that and I get weird hangovers. The next day I can hardly move. My legs and arms get this feeling like little sparks ar going off in them. (I know that sounds crazy). And I feel just very sick for three days.

One LLMD told me it was because we herx, because the alcohol kills spirochetes. I've also heard theories on the spirochetes eating the sugar in the alcohol and lots of other stuff.

I posted this question when I first found out I had lyme and I can't find the post but I saved one of the answers:

Pavia CS,
Bittker S,
Cooper D.
Department of Medicine, New York Medical College, Valhalla.

Rats fed excessive amounts of ethanol developed marked hematologic and immunologic changes. These included a reversal of the normal lymphocyte to granulocyte ratio in the peripheral blood, lower spleen and lymph node weights and a greatly reduced capacity to express normal cell mediated immune functions, based on poor lymphocyte reactivity in vivo, and in vitro to T and B cell mitogens and borrelial antigens shortly after primary immunization with the bacterial spirochete, Borrelia burgdorferi. Further evidence for impaired immune function caused by ethanol was based on little or no antibody response against Borrelia in rats following in vivo sensitization with B. burgdorferi incorporated in complete Freund's adjuvant. These findings provide substantial direct evidence strengthening the notion that high levels of ethanol ingestion adversely affect the host immune system and can interfere with the immune response to microorganisms.

HERES ANOTHER


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Spirochetes have a limited metabolism and can only ferment a few types of organic molecules.

They ferment carbohydrates to acetate, ethanol , CO2, and H2 as major end products.

All spirochetes so far examined use the Embden-Meyerhoff-Parnas pathway to take glucose to pyruvate.

Under anaerobic conditions this is converted to acetate and ethanol using common fermentative pathways.

Interestingly, the facultative anaerobes in the group use both oxidative phosphorylation and substrate level phosphorylation in the presence of air and seem to be dependent on at least some fermentation.

The TCA cycle has not been detected in these microbes, and it is unclear how they get their ATP by oxidative phosphorylation.

B. burgdorferi will also move away from ethanol and butanol.

http://www.bact.wisc.edu/Microtextbook/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=110&page=1

Ethanol binds to NMDA receptors in the brain (inhibiting them) and perhaps to GABAA receptors as well.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/D/Drugs.html

Alcohol, neurotransmitter systems, and behavior.
From: The Journal of General Psychology
Date: 10/1/2006

Alcohol affects several neurotransmitter systems within the brain. In this article, the author describes its effects on 5 major ones: glutamate, gamma-amino-butyric acid (GABA), dopamine, serotonin, and opioid systems.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:hhwFBpMyBgUJ:www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-154391000.html+morphine+alcohol+ethanol&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=43&gl=us

Acute ethanol intoxication caused a marked suppression of NK activity in vivo and a tenfold increase in the number of MADB106 tumor metastases.

Ethanol had no effect in rats selectively depleted of NK cells or when an NK-insensitive tumor (C4047) was used.

These findings suggest that even acute ethanol intoxication markedly suppresses NK activity in the living organism.

This suppression may underlie some aspects of the association between alcoholism, infectious disease and malignancies.

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v2/n4/abs/nm0496-457.html

(NK are natural killer cells...our first line of defense against precancerous cells.)

Clin Diagn Lab Immunol. 2002 Mar;9(2):282-6.

Impaired bactericidal activity and host resistance to Listeria monocytogenes and Borrelia burgdorferi in rats administered an acute oral regimen of ethanol.

PMID: 11874864

Vasdev S, Mian T, Longerich L, Prabhakaran V, Parai S.

N-acetyl cysteine attenuates ethanol induced hypertension in rats.
Artery 1995;21(6):312-6

"All known pathways of ethanol metabolism result in the production of acetaldehyde, a highly reactive compound.

N-acetyl cysteine, an analogue of the dietary amino acid cysteine, binds acetaldehyde, thus preventing its damaging effect on physiological proteins.

(Above...unfortunately Bb has "zinc fingers" composed of:cysteine and histidine bound by zinc)


We have a "limited" amt. of the 2 enzymes needed to breakdown alcohol - alcohol deyhdrogenase is the first one. Women have less of this enzyme than do men.

Since the spirochetes are ALREADY fermenting sugar to ethanol/alcohol...adding a drink or two or more...may make things WORSE...significantly.

I have many more ethanol/alcohol files if you need them.

Pay close attention to HOW Flagyl works.

Flagyl + "extra" alcohol = alcohol poisoning (very life threatening).
PMID: 1774157 [PubMed - indexed for MED [/QB]

exactlly
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
'Kete-tracker
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Lack of desire to consume alcohol is quite common with Lyme infection.
Good, too, as it's another trigger, like high blood sugar levels, to cause BB multiplication. {Them li'l buggers get sloshed & 'whoop it up'!}

My LLND says N-O alcohol until you are over the acute stage... no matter how long that takes.
Once it's "in remission", the occasional wine or drink w/ a full meal is fine, but you can NEVER AGAIN get totally "wasted". A great way to bring on a relapse!

Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marnie
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Alcohol use and lithium (Rx for manic depression which CAN happen in lyme) will indeed relieve some of the symptoms, but do not CURE.

Then add hypothyroid and the need for supplementing the thyroid hormones...

Bandaids.

(The first 2 do not come without significant dangers!)

Li...nice try, wrong mineral.

When and if you develop bladder problems, docs will Rx Pyridium to help with those SYMPTOMS.

Nice try, wrong mineral if you're looking for a CURE.

Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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