I got an upper respiratory infection a week ago. A few days into it, it moved down into my lungs and my asthma started acting up.
I went to my doctor yesterday and she said I had asthmatic bronchitis and that my lungs didn't sound good. She said they were stable but I was wheezy. She is a Lyme-friendly doctor.
Today I went back to see her because my shortness of breath has gotten worse.
I always get concerned when I have trouble breathing because of my past history of severe asthma and many respiratory infections.
I saw the doc's PA because the doc wasn't there. I told the PA that I can feel a "wheeze" in my chest and that I'm short of breath.
The PA listened to me and said my lungs sound pretty good. She said "Your perception of your asthma is worse than what it actually is. It could be anxiety that is causing this."
The PA is not Lyme friendly. I was not too happy when she said this to me. We had already argued about my Lyme treatment just minutes earlier.
Now I wonder, is what I'm experiencing a Lyme symptom, since supposedly my asthma is not that bad now, or am I just having anxiety?
I don't understand how I can be imagining my difficulty breathing because I can feel it and it's real.
Thanks for any thoughts -- electrolite
-------------------- I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then. Posts: 128 | From Dallas, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
PA sounds like they may be an idiot to me....dump the person. Have they even considered Babesia?
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
The PA doesn't know anything about Lyme, so she definitely doesn't know Babesia.
-------------------- I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then. Posts: 128 | From Dallas, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
If you depend solely on your lyme-friendly PCP for Abx treatment, then I'd request only to see him/her. If you want real help, you'll need to see a LLMD if financially and geographically possible.
Either way, I wouldn't waste a minute seeing uneducated physicians/assistants when you are dealing with Lyme/cos. I wasted time stupidly. Ignorance is unacceptable, and I'm not a believer in trying to educate my docs. I pay already for care.
Shortmess of breath can be anxiety so consider it, but don't rule out other issues. Consider the circumstances, when they started, how long they last, what they are like, etc. I started having them when I first got ill.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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MariaA
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Member # 9128
posted
do you know what air hunger is? It's often confused with anxiety attacks and other stuff like that.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Lyme can cause diaphragm paralysis and respiratory paralysis and the treatment is usually IV Rocephin, and if it's bad people are put on ventilators.
I am using a BiPap ventilator to help me breathe now (often used for apnea, but also for neuromuscular diseases). My shortness of breath got dangerously bad. Do NOT listen to a doctor who dismisses it since it can be a very serious symptom.
If you can find the LymeMD's blog, he wrote about a case of diaphragm paralysis on there.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I saw a pulmonologist today due to shortness of breath that's lasted a week and has been so debilitating that I can't leave the house.
The guy wanted to lecture me on my Lyme treatment, so my husband cut in and said, "We're here to talk about the breathing problem, not the Lyme."
So the guy says in a round-about way that it's anxiety. So I know how maddening it is. I'm guessing it's Lyme related or babesia no matter how much he wanted to try to persuade me it's all in my head.
Posts: 236 | From Washington | Registered: Jul 2008
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Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
Since you have Lyme AND shortness of breath, I don't think your PA was necessarily correct in saying you had anxiety.
All the psychiatrists I went to over the years thought I suffered from anxiety too, as well as depression, post-traumatic stress disorder and panic attacks.
It was only after I was diagnosed with Lyme that I realized my breathing problems were, for me, anyway a symptom of the disease.
I actually do have all of the psychiatric issues that I have been diagnosed with, but they are caused by Lyme and co-infections, I am certain. But my shortness of breath isn't anxiety for me. I can be perfectly calm and relaxed and still struggle for air.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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Jane2904
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Member # 15917
posted
Doctors said my daughter's shortness of breath and heavy chest were anxiety.
Month later diagnosed with Lyme. Most Non LLMD blame everything on anxiety. Well, at least that's what I have experienced.
I believe shortness of breath can be a symptom of Lyme and Co.
Posts: 1357 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Jun 2008
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Babesia
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
My doctor said my shortness of breath was "stress". Although I do have stress in my life with a housebound daughter with Lyme, it did not feel like stress to me.
Later, I was put on zithromax for an infection and the air hunger went away. When I stopped the zith, it came back. That convinced me that it was not "stress".
Like others have said, I think they are just quick to call symptoms anxiety. I would be surprised if your LLMD thinks it is anxiety.
Posts: 984 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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losferwrds
Unregistered
posted
The problem is shortness of breath causes anxiety which leads to adrenalin which leads to more shortness of breath, it a vicious cycle.
A normal "Panic Attack" with Air Hunger should resolve within 15-30 minutes.
When its a chronic and reoccuring and lasting most of day, the air hunger is a symptom of co-infection or heart problem and the anxiety is secondary to the condition.
In laymans terms the bart and babs have a way of messing with blood cells that cause the body to crave air.
In both cases benzos will help, but they are less effective on the lyme air hunger than the person thats just a worrier or stressed.
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
They will Rx Xanax.
Look VERY closely at HOW it works.
Na.
OUR ATPase needs Mg.
Bb's ATPase needs Na.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
As Marnie suggests, Magnesium can really help. It can help relax the spasms in the airway - and it can also help lessen irritation on our nerve fibers.
Cordyceps, too, is a big helper in lung function AND with adrenals.
posted
Shortness of breath is an anxiety symptom, along with cold hands/feet, sweating, insomnia, muscle tension, nausea, dizziness, ect. Even though you may not feel anxious, your body can be anxious and weak.
Of course the infections cause this to happen.
Bugs -> produce toxins -> toxins change body function -> poor body function -> sickness
Posts: 458 | From Miss | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
shortness of breath, cold hands/feet, nausea, dizziness can also be signs of HEART problems.
I just dont want anyone to assume if you have these, that you have anxiety... I am honestly surprised to hear so many people on this board telling you its anxiety.
I certainly dont know in your case if it is or not, i just know i personally have shortness of breath that has gotten worse over the past 3 months to where it is almost 24/7 most days, and it is definitely not anxiety causing this for ME.
Topic: To everyone with cardiac symptoms please read!
=================
About adrenal function so zapped with lyme, that fight or flight reaction from adrenal exhaustion is often just poo-pooed as anxiety, implying a person is a wimp. It can be extremely complex. Extremely. And it can affect the heart, as explained here:
The author discusses the endocrine connection and effects of STRESS (and therefore, the heart) for anyone with lyme &/or Cpn.
You can read customer reviews and look inside the book at this link to its page at Amazon.
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Bb's toxin cleaves (breaks apart)MAPKK-1. (So does the toxin from anthrax.)
That means 2 phosphate transfers ain't happening because MAPKK-1 is kapoot.
K = kinase = phosphate transfer.
The toxin is likely a zinc metalloproteinase (most are). These cleave (break)a zinc+protein bond.
Why would Bb do this?
Bb has zinc fingers which maybe cysteine (an amino acid) and histidine (another amino acid) bound to the mineral, zinc.
To obtain zinc to make its zinc fingers, it looks to rob it from a zinc-protein of ours and use it to build its zinc fingers.
When and if Bb is "killed" if "his"toxin (an enzyme?)is still "floating around" and taking zinc off a protein of ours this increased zinc is very toxic to us and needs to be bound.
EDTA is too dangerous.
Zeolite? Risks?
Look at the symptoms of excess zinc (lots of websites list the symptoms here is one):
Is the real "toxin" too much systemic zinc?
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
electrolite,
The Occam's Razor approach, that so many in the fields of Science and Medicine seem beholden to above all else (otherwise described as the "hear beating hooves, think of horses, not zebras" philosophy), would point to Lyme or coinfections or BOTH being factors in your lung, breathing, and possibly even asthma issues.
There was recently a thread on Lyme and lungs that I and others posted some studies to. Here is the link:
I will copy & paste the studies here, but I would read that thread as well, because there are a lot of other people giving their experiences with these symptoms. You might want to also search for more threads on "breathing" or "lungs" or "air hunger" or "pulmonary" in the archives, as there should be quite a lot of info for you there. I will copy the studies from that one thread below.
quote:Originally posted by nenet: I haven't been able to read through this but this overview from the Medical Journal CHEST ("For Specialists in: Pulmonology, Critical Care, Sleep Medicine, Thoracic Surgery, Cardiorespiratory Interactions, and related disciplines") goes over Tick Borne pathogens including Lyme, in relation to Lung ailments.
quote:Originally posted by lpkayak: i thought i'd put this here in case anyone searches:
(its old but probably still relevant...except for the vaccine part)
sounds like the tx is just good lyme tx
Tick-Borne Pulmonary Disease* Update on Diagnosis and Management John L. Faul, MD, Ramona L. Doyle, MD, FCCP, Peter N. Kao, MD, and Stephen J. Ruoss, MD +Author Affiliations
*From the Division of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, Stanford University Medical Center, Palo Alto, CA. Abstract Ticks are capable of transmitting viruses, bacteria, protozoa, and rickettsiae to man. Several of these tick-borne pathogens can lead to pulmonary disease. Characteristic clinical features, such as erythema migrans in Lyme disease, or spotted rash in a spotted fever group disease, may serve as important diagnostic clues. Successful management of tick-borne diseases depends on a high index of suspicion and recognition of their clinical features. Patients at risk for tick bites may be coinfected with two or more tick-borne pathogens. A Lyme vaccine has recently become available for use in the United States. Disease prevention depends on the avoidance of tick bites. When patients present with respiratory symptoms and a history of a recent tick bite or a characteristic skin rash, a differential diagnosis of a tick-borne pulmonary disease should be considered. Early diagnosis and appropriate antibiotic therapy for these disorders lead to greatly improved outcomes.
quote:Originally posted by lpkayak: the following are exerps i found interesting form this article:
Three cases of Lyme disease associated with encephalopathy and nocturnal hypoventilation or prolonged central apnea have been reported. In these cases, tracheotomy and prolonged ventilatory support were required because of abnormal central respiratory disturbances.28
In stage 2 Lyme disease, patients may complain of shortness of breath due to cardiac involvement or phrenic nerve palsy. We have recently described a case in which diaphragmatic paralysis due to Lyme disease was successfully treated with tetracycline antibiotics.
Lyme disease may even cause chronic congestive cardiomyopathy, with resultant shortness of breath and exercise intolerance.
No respiratory complications have been reported in patients with stage 3 Lyme disease (ie, chronic arthritis, dermatitis, CNS involvement).
Lyme disease is an important cause of neurologic morbidity because it is preventable and reversible with appropriate antibiotic therapy. Oral tetracycline antibiotics are the treatments of choice for all stages of Lyme disease.45 In a controlled study of disseminated Lyme disease, IV ceftriaxone (2 g daily for 2 weeks) and oral doxycycline (100 mg twice daily for 3 weeks) showed similar clinical cure rates at 9 months (85% and 88%, respectively).44 IV ceftriaxone is currently recommended for patients with meningitis or encephalopathy because of its better penetration into cerebrospinal fluid.42 However, for most patients with Lyme disease, IV therapy appears to be no more effective than oral therapy.
quote:Originally posted by nenet: Here is another article (actually a letter to the Editor) from CHEST regarding Human granulocytic ehrlichiosis and pulmonary symptoms:
1. Ryland P. Byrd, Jr., MD, FCCP and 2. Thomas M. Roy, MD, FCCP
+Author Affiliations
1. James H. Quillen College of Medicine East Tennessee State University Johnson City, TN
To the Editor:
We read with interest the recently published clinical review by Faul et al (July 1999)1 on tick-borne pulmonary disease. However, the authors stated that the sole causative agent of ehrlichiosis in the United States is the rickettsia Ehrlichia chaffeensis. It has recently been recognized that are at least two similar but distinct human diseases caused by Ehrlichia species in the United States.
Human monocytic ehrlichiosis is caused by E chaffeensis. Human granulocytic ehrlichiosis (HGE), first described in 1994, is caused by a species closely related to the Ehrlichia equi/phagocytophilia group.23 While the clinical presentation of these two forms of ehrlichiosis may be similar, HGE appears to be a more virulent illness. Our review on the respiratory manifestations of tick-borne disease failed to determine which form of ehrlichiosis is associated with pneumonia and respiratory failure.4
More recently, an additional ehrlichial species, Ehrlichia ewingii, has been identified to cause clinical disease that is indistinguishable from infection caused by E chaffeensis or the agent of HGE.5 Unfortunately, the clinical manifestations of these four patients from Missouri who were identified with this infection were not given in detail, so we could not determine from the article whether these patients had any respiratory manifestations from their rickettsial infection.
Thus, there now appears to be documentation of at least three separate ehrlichial infectious agents in the United States. Others may be recognized as technology allows better identification of these important emerging infections.
quote:Originally posted by nenet: Here is the article the previous Letter to the Editor (posted above) refers to:
Full Free pdf of entire article - this is VERY informative:
Tick-Borne Pulmonary Disease - Update on Diagnosis and Management
Ticks are capable of transmitting viruses, bacteria, protozoa, and rickettsiae to man. Several of these tick-borne pathogens can lead to pulmonary disease. Characteristic clinical features, such as erythema migrans in Lyme disease, or spotted rash in a spotted fever group disease, may serve as important diagnostic clues.
Successful management of tick-borne diseases depends on a high index of suspicion and recognition of their clinical features. Patients at risk for tick bites may be coinfected with two or more tick-borne pathogens. A Lyme vaccine has recently become available for use in the United States. Disease prevention depends on the avoidance of tick bites.
When patients present with respiratory symptoms and a history of a recent tick bite or a characteristic skin rash, a differential diagnosis of a tick-borne pulmonary disease should be considered. Early diagnosis and appropriate antibiotic therapy for these disorders lead to greatly improved outcomes.
posted
Has anyone used a peak flow meter (used for asthma) to monitor breathing? I just got one and found my peak flow is way lower than it should be (almost half as low) for my age and height. It makes sense since I'm having breathing problems. I did have a test for asthma a few years ago before I got Lyme and did not have asthma, but now I am interested to learn about the other pulmonary complications from Lyme.
I just started cordyceps and I felt better instantly on the first dose, which never happens for me with supplements. I had taken it years ago and noticed nothing. So I think it really is working directly on my current symptoms, which involve a lot of shortness of breath.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Yes, Cordyceps is suggested by many LLMDs to help adrenal function. It is also excellent for the lungs:
Cordyceps mushroom is sweet and bland in taste, and warming in action. It strengthens immunity and fortifies and heals the lungs, heart and kidneys. Used as a tonic for weakness in the elderly and to promote longevity.
. . .
- Full chapter at link above.
From: The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (Tilltoson, et. al.)
posted
Thank you all for your helpful responses! I appreciate reading your thoughts and experiences.
Seekhelp: I agree, I will NOT go back to this PA. She was really rude. Earlier on, I told her that I took Doxy for Lyme last week and had to stop it because my symptoms worsened.
Then she said, "If you were treating Lyme, then your symptoms would NOT worsen." She was really rude and adamant about it.
I don't know why, when it comes to Lyme, a lot of doctors have to be so adamant about their opinion when they are so wrong!
I really am done with going to any doctor for anything, if that doctor knows nothing about Lyme.
The only reason I saw her yesterday is because I was really concerned about my breathing difficulties and my doctor was gone for the day.
My Lyme-friendly doc has been helping me, but I am not relying on her solely to treat the Lyme. I have an appointment with an LLMD on July 1. I can't wait to finally see a real LLMD. I will have to travel out of state.
As far as when this started, it was a few days into a respiratory infection when the asthma and shortness of breath kicked in (basically once the congestion/infection had moved down into my lungs).
Starting in July 2007, I had a respiratory infection with asthma that resulted in months of constant labored breathing.
After awhile, my doctor said my lungs sounded fine and it wasn't asthma.
She said that my breathing was too quick and shallow and she taught me some deep breathing exercises used in yoga. She was really big on yoga.
That probably helped some, but it didn't really cure my breathing difficulties. I had shortness of breath that lasted for months.
After months of taking herbal treatments for Lyme, it seemed to improve and go away. Until now.
I've thought for awhile now that what happened to me was a Babesia symptom. But I just don't know about it being a cardiac problem -- my cells needing oxygen.
It feels more like a respiratory problem because my lungs hurt and I have labored breathing. I even feel a slight wheeze deep in my chest when breathing.
What exactly is air hunger? Since this started, I feel like it's a struggle to breathe all day, everyday. It's just something I feel like I have to work at.
My breathing doesn't feel autonomic, as if I'm breathing and I don't notice it. It feels like I'm aware of almost each and every breath.
Keebler: I have not tried those herbs. I will have to see where I can get those. What do you mean by asthma meds "sending you to the moon?"
Thanks for the links. I will check out the info about the heart and adrenals. The "Potbelly Syndrome" book looks interesting.
Soleil16: I'm sorry that happened. I'm beginning to feel that any specialist who is not LL is really no help to us with Lyme. It's sad because we need expertise on our specific problems.
Leelee and losferwrds: When I start having breathing difficulties, it does produce anxiety, but that's a normal reaction when you're struggling to breathe!
I don't have panic attacks that produce shortness of breath for a short time and then go away. My shortness of breath is just there all of the time.
What worsens my shortness of breath is too much activity, talking, heat/humidity or stress.
Nenet: Thanks for the links about Lyme and pulmonary function. I will have to read the journal articles. A lot of that stuff goes over my head!
The info about the heart and lungs is kind of scaring me, so I think I'll have to look at it another time. Thanks again!
-------------------- I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then. Posts: 128 | From Dallas, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Man, I'll have to try Cordyceps. It sounds like good stuff!
I did a peak flow meter yesterday at the dr's office and my readings were good. I have a meter at home too and had good readings here.
I think that's partly why my doctor said that I'm moving air pretty good through my lungs and that my asthma isn't as bad as I think it is.
But I still have congestion in my lungs from the bronchitis. I don't know anymore...
-------------------- I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then. Posts: 128 | From Dallas, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
quote:Originally posted by electrolite:
What exactly is air hunger?
Since this started, I feel like it's a struggle to breathe all day, everyday. It's just something I feel like I have to work at.
My breathing doesn't feel autonomic, as if I'm breathing and I don't notice it. It feels like I'm aware of almost each and every breath.
What you describe is how I experience air hunger, and how others here have described theirs. I should add that many times it also includes feeling as if you are not able to get enough air into your lungs, no matter how deeply you try to breathe.
I hate the non-vountary part of Lyme breathing problems, where you feel you have to take over and initiate each breath voluntarily. It can be very uncomfortable and worrying.
I have had this symptom off and on since I was a young teenager, and didn't realize what it was. When my Lyme and co-infections worsened several years ago, this symptom got markedly worse.
I hope that you will take a look at the links, and look for other threads on this, as it is a very commonly talked about symptom here, and it might help you to see other people's stories and learn what helped them.
posted
Nenet, thanks for your reply. It's good to hear that my description seems to fit yours and others' descriptions of air hunger.
I have had this problem off and on for many years as well, although I always thought it was asthma-related.
I could never figure out what was going on when my doctors would say, "Your lungs sound fine."
And then I found out I had Lyme in July 2007, and that's when my breathing was much, much worse. I didn't know at the time that it had anything to do with Lyme, though. My doc diagnosed me but she wasn't very educated on Lyme.
I will take a look at the links, and search for other threads because I know it will be helpful as well.
I haven't been tested for Histoplasmosis; what is it? The most recent x-ray of my lungs was in July 2007 when I began having extreme shortness of breath. It was a normal x-ray.
To my knowledge, I haven't had any scarring on any of the many chest x-rays I've had over the years.
My history back to childhood includes many respiratory infections, bronchitis many times, pneumonia several times, severe asthma and several hospitalizations because of these problems.
For the past three years, it's been more severe Lyme symptoms, rather than all of the severe respiratory stuff.
-------------------- I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then. Posts: 128 | From Dallas, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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LisaS
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10581
posted
To many lyme illiterate Drs, everything is anxiety!
Trust your instincts and go back to the other lyme friendly dr when she is there!
nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
electrolite, with your long history of respiratory problems, I would recommend you also be evaluated for other co-infections.
You may already be aware, but Lyme generally does not come alone - it is far more common to have co-infections with it than to have just Lyme. Several of these co-infections can also cause lung problems.
You should be looked at for Rickettsias, Ehrlichiosis, and Anaplasmosis, as well as the other common co-infections. Testing for these and other co-infections is NOT up to speed (just like Lyme), so a negative test does not rule out the disease. You need to find an LLMD well-versed in co-infections and treating to symptoms, vesus treating to tests.
- I forgot to answer your question about Histoplasmosis. It is a fungal infection that can be acquired simply from inhaling dust from a bird's droppings, and in other ways. If you spend any time outdoors, or have been near birds (nests in yards or near homes, etc.) or wildlife, it is something to consider.
posted
Nenet, thanks again for your reply. I am waiting to see an LLMD so I can be evaluated for co-infections. I will ask about those specifically (also Babesia).
My breathing was a little better a few hours ago, so I took a short, sort of leisurely walk outside with my dog. Then I did the dishes and laundry. And now my breathing is worse.
Is this consistent with air hunger or tick-borne respiratory problems?
-------------------- I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then. Posts: 128 | From Dallas, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by electrolite: Is this consistent with air hunger or tick-borne respiratory problems?
I did a search on this site and found someone else who had breathing issues that worsened with exertion, so I guess that is indicative of air hunger.
-------------------- I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then. Posts: 128 | From Dallas, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
My breathing problems are much worse with any exertion, however minor. This is true of other neuromuscular conditions (like myasthenia gravis) so it could also be related to neuromuscular weakness.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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