posted
Betty -- It is the new research foundation for the F lab in Arizona -- same doc runs both the lab and the research foundation.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
BEA,
huge thank you! i had NO idea, and never knew the man's 1st name ??
gale, i'm sorry.... open mouth, insert foot!
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kelmo
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posted
Ha. Betty..I wasn't sure what you were saying, too.
He is at the point where there isn't enough personal money coming in to do what's necessary to go that last mile on this research.
For my money, I think more will come out of this than Columbia.
I am going to post my daughter's latest news in General.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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Marnie
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posted
Reminds me of TM (and others)
He asked for donations too...
Dyslexic Robin Hoods - rob from the poor, give to the already rich?
I side with Columbia.
[ 05-25-2009, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
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kelmo
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posted
Dr. Fry isn't asking for money from the patients. He's looking for the deep pocket philanthropists. I don't know how the website came to this board.
Marnie, if you saw the slides he showed us, you would be excited.
I find it more beneficial work toward a cure than a study that tells us if IV therapy works. That was a lot of money to let us know that "yes, they got better, then then got worse".
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
kelmo Are you allowed to tell us about what you saw on the slides? Gale
Posts: 268 | From europe | Registered: May 2008
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kelmo
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posted
I'm sure I am allowed, but I wouldn't know how to explain it adequately.
I saw slides from all of his chronically ill patients...ALS, MS, Autism, "Chronic Lyme" (his words), CFS/FMS, Parkinsons.
He had to point out the organism to me, but once I saw it, it popped out. Every one of these patients had a protozoa and biofilm. The Autism kid was the worst.
My daughter asked him questions about that. His idea is that the chronically ill patients process L-Argenine differently. They are able to replicate the organism in Argenine, so they know it uses it.
She asked about immunizations and gluten. He said that Arginine is in wheat, so arginine maybe the issue and not the gluten. Just a thought, he hasn't put that in a concrete statement.
He said, since the child is probably born with so many of these organisms, that when they are immunized, the body just can't handle any more invasion.
Does that make sense?
He is really trying to curb his lectures because his facility can't handle the onslaught of testing requests. It's a very small office. Hence, the Foundation.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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Hoosiers51
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posted
Makes sense kelmo, thanks for updating!
I have also had adverse reactions to vaccines that were terribly frightening and took me a long time to recover from.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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kelmo
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posted
springshowers, I often wonder how you know so much Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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Pinelady
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posted
New insight. If this were the case it would explain
why Wakefield and Singh found measles persistent in
the bowels of autism. They simply had no immune
system to get rid of it. While in fact it may not
cause disease there. Or in some it could?
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Springshowers - Not to be contradictory, but the Protozoan is not as big as RBC's. It is very small, but it is intracellular and when in ring form...seems to be very large. Good info though, I appreciate your posts.
Posts: 136 | From Arizona | Registered: Sep 2008
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springshowers
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Kelmo - LOL I do not know "so much" As you can see. : )
Bears - Thanks! I did not know that. That is very interesting. You can contradict me anytime to clarify things. We are all trying to learn and hopefully heal along the way.!
Here is the information corrected. "From what I have heard and understand ...The protozoan is as big as a red blood cell and they group primarily in pods of slime in the blood."
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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Lyme is not mentioned in this context because Lyme -as an infection with Borrelia B- may have very little to do with this infection.At best as an infection that makes it harder for our immunesystem to fight this "new" infection. The new pathogenes may not even be tick- transmitted- nobody knows. But it seems that very many Lymies have been diagnosed falsely as having Lyme and other tick-transmitted infections and treated by their LLMDs accordingly. That is the sad perspective that ought to make very many rethink their position on Lyme. Gale
Posts: 268 | From europe | Registered: May 2008
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kelmo
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posted
Gale, I think you nailed it...
As for, "what did it look like?" I have nothing to compare it to.
I appreciate that he doesn't talk down to me, but microscopy is not a strength of mine.
From my small brain perspective, when he asked me to tell him what I saw, the blob I thought was a white blood cell was actually biofilm.
I believe what I was looking at was what used to be the normal blood smears, but magnified MUCH more.
When I say that it was unbelievable, I meant that some people, like the autistic children, had SO MANY organisms.
The ALS patient used to come into his office with a walker, now he just got a hernia from exercising too much.
My daughter, who was confined to a pillow nest on the sofa, took a trip BY HERSELF to Chicago this week. She may be back to the sofa when she returns, but she had one week without mom to nurse her, and had her first independent trip.
My daughter has never had Lyme show up in her tests. Neither have I. But, we have so many of the symptoms, we could've been clinically diagnosed.
No one in our family has ever had a tick bite. Mosquitoes have eaten us alive, and my daughter had repeated lice infestations in first grade (other student's parents couldn't afford the lice kits). So, I strongly believe other vectors are to blame.
Dr. F might be a maverick, and may explain why he doesn't want to limit himself to be labeled an LLMD (but, he is literate). This has ****ed off so many people who have taken previous theories as gospel.
Still, even with this research, it may not be the complete picture. But, it's getting very close.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
kelmo Thanks for your info. You might have been looking at a picture from at electron-microscope?- so it has been enlarged much more. Was it sort of shaped like a football, a ring form, inside a cell,like a dumm-bell or?
I might add that I personally think it is very difficult to understand all this.In particulat that all the people with the blood-smear should have the same infection?, because it is impossible to base an identification on the basis of the morphology (what the things look like).That is why the sequencing is so important, by pcr exact tests can be made.Hope that will be possible soon.
[ 05-26-2009, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: galehane ]
Posts: 268 | From europe | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Interesting... my son is unvaccinated and still regressed into autism. He has these buggers on his red blood cells. He does not present as a typical lyme patient (exhausted, joint pain, etc)...although he seemed to possibly have these symptoms when he regressed about 8 years ago.
He seems to be responding to the Zhang herbs plus cryptolepsis, clove and argentyn...oh yeah, some oil of oregano splashed in to cover up his garlic odor (and bust some cysts in the process). He does seem more in tune with the world and has more energy.
Maybe I need to take him to see this doc???
I can't wait to hear more as things unfold. I wish I could see these slides!
Thanks for the updates. The more I read the more conflicting info I seem to uncover.
This is defrinitely the first time I have read that Fry's protozoa is intracellular -- that does make sense, but conflicts with the mystery pathogen found by Clongen. Of course it is possible that the organism has multiple forms.
Have to wonder if the ring forms seen on hubby's first bloodsmear from Fry were the mystery protozoa and not babesia since he has never had any other positive babesia tests except for Bowen which also saw ring forms. Dr K at Clongen of course pointed out that unless you saw the maltese cross forms you couldn't definitely say the protozoa was babesia and not malaria or some other protozoa.
Hubby's LLMD does believe that a blood borne parasite has to come from a blood sucking insect. According to the medical literature babesia is only spread by ticks. And I am pretty sure that theileria which seems a likely possibility for the F protozoa has only been documented to be spread by a tick as well.
It seems to me that I have been noticing that several of Dr F patients are having a hard time with treatment. The one thing they seem to have in common is that they are only treating for protozoa. I know for hubby at least he only seemed to have significant improvement when he treated for both bart or BLO or mycoplasma and for a protozoa at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if the mystery bacteria is eventually identified as BLO.
Still not sure what to make of the biofilm aspect as this is something which as far as I know has never before been found in conjunction with a protozoa.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I was really disappointed that Lyme or co-infections weren't even mentioned on his web-site!!
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I am not sure how you all can read so much from the site provided. The only thing that works on the site is donation button for me. Am I missing something?
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Bea - I am one of Dr F's and I am doing much better. We are not treating only Protozoa, but also a broad spectrum. The majority of his patients are taking Biaxin and Plaquenil. Biaxin covers Bartonella and Protozoan(s) and Plaquenil covers Protozoan(s). Why should we should abuse ourselves with antibiotics when there is no cure? I have been on IV antibiotics in the past and got NOWHERE. I was taking one step forward and two steps back.
There is so much doubt on this site about everything. I have yet to see many people stay on a combo? How can anyone ever know if something is actually working? Doubt is this organism's biggest tool.
Here are the facts....
1. The Protozoa is new to the Scientific world and has never been recognized...until now 2. The gram negative bacteria is Hemobartonella...found only as an opportunistic bacteria found in immunosuppressed individuals 3. The life cycle of this organism is being mapped as we speak 4. The Protozoa feeds off Arginine and is easily grown when the organism is exposed to Arginine 5. The Protozoa is found in MOST chronically ill people 6. Once funds have been met for research a cure is possible within 1-3 years
Protozoans make BIOFILM easily in Nature. There are many articles on this...do a little research it will ease your mind. Think about the water...Protozoans are abundant in water. They make biofilms to protect themselves.
When you talk about BLO...the organism is only OPPORTUNISTIC...it is only seen in immunosuppressed people. After the immune system changes, it goes away.
When the Protozoa is intracellular...this is part of its life cycle. It has many life cycles and this will be made public soon.
This site is depressing in the sense that it is like a bunch of Doctors getting together and disagreeing. Why do so many people want controversy...isnt there enough controversy in their lives? I know people have been lied to in the past and been strung around by doctors and others, but the FACTS are the FACTS a person can choose to believe or doubt. If anyone doubts Dr F's research at this point...I think that individual has no desire to believe anything anymore and is making themselves worse by negative thinking. Frylabs, although small, is very advanced and is on the verge of something very big in the medical field.
Posts: 136 | From Arizona | Registered: Sep 2008
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I have to agree
I have found not much more than doubts and negative thinking about things that are shared around this subject. Yet there is a asking and yurning to know and learn more.
There are those who are sharing what they know and that is to help others. That is a good thing.
This is research and things will continue to evolve and move and change. That does not mean that the one person who said something and it was changed or different is "wrong". We are all in this together! and this is an evolving subject and research.
I am tired of the whos right and whos wrong and it has to be proved to be believed by some. Or it matches or does not match past science so it is not possible. People want to fit this all into something they know. It may or may not fit. I do trust this lab is doing all they can to figure this all out.
Lately there has been a surge of new information and it is constantly been changing. You may hear one thing from one person but then another by someone else. And that is just the nature of the research when there are a lot of changes going on. It will smooth out in time as new things are found and or solidified.
I hope that people can be uplifted by the information and the new hope for ideas and things that can only Help us.
I for one is very excited and motivated and I think that the ideas around this bug are going to even cure me. Yep I do and.. well I already know others will not agree. But we each have our own path.
Most all abx have broad spectrums and though too targeting this protozoan I think is going to help many. Including me.
So I hope that you take the information for what it is worth to you and be thankful. And keep in mind this is research and still being worked on continuously. I am so thankful to have someone supporting me that is trying to figure out and find what is wrong with me. !
Thanks so much.
I wish everyone healing. Not one person deserves to suffer through this disease we are all battling.
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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thanks for enlightening me on this subject since i've not been following along this subject; just not enough time to read what i do and help folks!! xox
enjoyed reading what else is going on as well.
yes, there are some folks on here who beat a subject to death NOT believing in anything!!
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kelmo
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posted
Bea, my daughter had half rings on her red blood cells. So, we treated for babesia even though her blood test was normal. I believe it did help. It stopped her asthma, night sweats, and thyroid enlargement.
She has been treated for babesia, mycoplasma, bartonella, and now this protozoa with antiparasitics drugs.
Right now she is on minocycline (Biaxin is contraindicated with some of her psyche meds), and plaquinil.
We have recently added Bolouke and an infrared heating pad for her painful back.
She is in Chicago on an excursion. WHODA THUNK!!!??
Bears and Spring put it very well. Please reread those posts several times.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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Marnie
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posted
It is suggested that autistic kids get on a gluten free diet.
Gluten LOWERS lysine...further.
So if they go on a gluten free diet, they ***conserve more lysine.***
These kids might have a gene that throws off the balance between arginine and lysine.
The gene is called B16 arg/arg.
Persons who have that gene have higher levels of arginine and to compensate, the body will upregulate aldosterone which reduces serum potassium which
conserves lysine.
A potassium deficiency conserves lysine.
But yes, some infections can throw off the arginine-lysine balance too.
Her eyes were the first to be hit...to indicate a problem.
ABP (antigen binding protein) binds androgens in tears.
No androgens and one has very dry, very red eyes. In addition, one of the many lysine deficiency symptoms IS "red eyes".
Some other reasons for autism are a candida infection or mom having a lot of inflammation as she was carrying the child -> genetic "mistakes", etc.
P.S. A lysine deficiency "accentuates EFA deficiency" which is why these kids have ongoing brain inflammation. OmegaBrite (ester of EPA - one of the "omegas") helps. Helps, not cure.
The impact of a lysine deficiency is astounding. I have LOTS more info. if anyone is interested.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Good point, John, but maybe it means that when you get better, you will be that happy like the family. Isn't it what we all dream of?
And thank you for the link, Spring. That's helpful.
By reading the link and everyone's post here, it doesn't sound like we disagree very much, at least that's how I read it. We seem to agree more than we disagree, and yet, human nature makes us argue.
It sounds like infection from bacteria/virus can potentially trigger chronic diseases as one possible factor. This, however, does not completely rule out some chronic diseases are gene based and not from infection from bacteria/virus.
If I read this correctly, this might explain why some people get better from antibiotic treatment, and some don't.
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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Marnie
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posted
In hindsight...I see my daughter's bad eczema at 1 month of age (which is a sign of allergies later in life) should have been the first clue of a genetic arginine-lysine problem.
We switched her to soy formula right away.
(Soy formula is slightly higher in Mg than regular formula.)
With her first DPT shot, she had a pretty awful reaction. And...her "clear" infant skin developed what looked like an "age spot" where the shot was given. It's still there today on her left thigh.
Lysine low = decrease antibody formation and decreased immunity.
Our son, born 3 years later, had a more immediate "sign" ...two days after birth, he was having diarrhea and the ped. said to switch him to soy formula immediately also.
(A lysine deficiency can impact gastric secretions.)
Why do my daughter and son look to need more Mg?
This maybe related to the fact that:
"Some individulas who exhibit symptoms of B-6 deficiency may actually have a lysine deficiency that
***limits functional B-6 activity".
And B -6 works WITH Mg.
Mg is an anti-inflammatory and an anti-HISTAMINE (her allergies).
And she had to have IV Mg to halt premature labor and delivery...
Both my father and my husband's father had bladder cancer. Yes, both smoked cigarettes which was "common" in those times, but both had quit.
Look closely at the nutrients I posted that look to greatly help treat bladder cancer.
Are those nutrients needed to help repair DNA strand breaks?
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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kelmo
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posted
<Bears and Spring put it very well. Please reread those posts several times. >
Betty, I just read my last sentence and realize it could be taken that I was responding directly to you.
I just wanted to let you know that it wasn't meant for you, it was meant for those who are still confused.
Didn't want to hurt you, it wasn't meant for you.
Marnie: What you said about Lysine makes absolute sense. My daughter and I started suplementing with Lysine years ago because we have the HHV-6 virus and Lysine is good at fighting it.
Dr. F also says that some people genetically process Arginine differently, which is what you mentioned. My daughter is following the Herpes diet, and she seems to be doing well on it.
I think you may have misunderstood me. The point I was trying to make is that it is much better to use a more focused approach to treatment rahter than a shotgun approach.
Protozoa do require different antibiotics than Lyme. And unfortunately bartonella and mycoplasma also require somewhat specific antibiotics. I didn't know that Biaxin treated bartonella.
Hubby also has had IV antibiotics. In fact his first antibiotic was IV Rocephin. But within a week of stopping that med all the improvements he had made on that antibiotic started going away. Without treatment specific to Babesia/protozoa and Bartonella I hate to think where he would be at today.
I am thankful for the F lab and hopeful that the research will yield more definitive testing in the future.
But there are still LLMD's who will not treat babesia or bartonella without positive test results and those patients continue to suffer. I have often advised patients in the past to get a bloodsmear from F lab and will continue to do so. In my opinion the labels as to what the bacteria are called are not so important as to know that it is a bacteria versus a protozoa.
This is not directed at you, but I don't see how the lab can say that the bacteria (hemobartonella) is opportunistic unless they know the source of the bacteria? Maybe those patients are the sickest simply because they have this additional bacteria rather than the other way around. The correlation versus causation axiom comes to mind.
I am not trying to be argumentative. Simply trying to muddle through just like everyone else.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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kelmo
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posted
Bea, I think it would be absolutely wise to assume that we have everything and to just treat for it.
Even though my daughter never tested positive for Lyme, I always thought that it COULD be part of her infectious soup.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
kelmo,
thanks for your concern; i did NOT read it that you were applying that statement to me.
i do agree with you .... there are some people on this board that just argue over and over with same comments; NOT specifiying who i'm talking about.
it's a waste of our limited energy and time. interesting post. xox
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posted
Do you know of anyone.. with this FRY bug who have done ozone/UV therapy at Envita and walked away symptom free?
I have the ring in rbc like everyone else.
My inf disease dr and his pathologist said it was artifact.
Posts: 73 | From ca, usa | Registered: May 2009
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kam
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 3410
posted
All I know is I would like to get well. I would see Dr. F if I had the funds.
Posts: 15927 | From Became too sick to work or do household chores in 2001. | Registered: Dec 2002
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Is Dr. F expensive for consults? I'm just curious. Feel free to PM.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Now I'm confused...my son did not have any rings, only little dots on the outside of his red cells. Would this still be considered "hemobart or mycoplasma" as it was listed on his test instead of the mystery bug?
hoot
Posts: 236 | From Illinois | Registered: Feb 2009
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
hoot: almost all of us have the dots attached to the red blood cells. I didn't at first, but was having symptoms. After six months zith, redid blood smear, and they appeared. Dr. F told me biofilm was compromised allowing them to detach from the arterial wall and into the bloodstream.
wtl: Dr. F believes chronic illness is caused by an infectious source AND genetic. Some people can carry the disease for years with no symptoms.
I've noticed that everyone is affected in areas where they are genetically weak. Since we have mental illness in the family, it really attacked our psyche. My son's girlfriend has no pain, but it affected her eyes. She lost vision in one.
Bigdreams: Dr. F will refer people to Envita who INSIST on IV therapy. However, I don't know of anyone who was cured there. Just a major lightening of the bank accounts.
Seek, I will PM you.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
kelmo - not wanting to be overly technical but from logic standpoint...
If Dr. F states chronic illness will necessarily takes two to tango (infection and genetic), can he prove that ALL of the blood samples from chronically illed patients contain infection?
His statement would require an 100% demonstration.
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
Kelmo and others,
Last night there was a post on this thread with a whole bunch of contact numbers and websites for Dr. Fry, etc. Or, perhaps, it was on a link that was on a post?? I am now looking for it, and don't find it.
I'm trying to find out how I would get in touch with Dr. Fry, or how I could find out some of the protocols. My LLMD said he would be willing to do the protocols with me, if he had information on them.
I'm esp interested in the biofilm protocol with the EDTA, etc. How do I find out more? I see my LLMD next Tues, and would love to find out before then, if possible. You can PM me, if need be. Thank you!
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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kelmo
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posted
wtl...I don't know what else to say. I've said all I know.
My brain is dead today...had my mom's funeral. Need some time to recover.
Sorry, can't help you.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
wtl - What do you mean it would require 100% demonstration? Firstly...almost everything in illness is Genetic. Everyone has genetic succeptabilities.
wtl...maybe you should call and ask him or set up an appointment and quiz Dr F. I am sure he would be able to explain all his findings from a "logic" (logical) standpoint. There is no sense of asking a patient (kelmo)...that she needs to ask for Dr F to demonstrate 100% to you that it is in all chronically ill patients. If he demonstrated it...there would still be skeptics.
Last night there was a post on this thread with a whole bunch of contact numbers and websites for Dr. Fry, etc. Or, perhaps, it was on a link that was on a post?? I am now looking for it, and don't find it.
I'm trying to find out how I would get in touch with Dr. Fry, or how I could find out some of the protocols. My LLMD said he would be willing to do the protocols with me, if he had information on them.
I'm esp interested in the biofilm protocol with the EDTA, etc. How do I find out more? I see my LLMD next Tues, and would love to find out before then, if possible. You can PM me, if need be. Thank you!
rumi,
sending you a pm on drs. phone no/address... ---------------------------------------------------------
i do NOT know answers to other things asked so will leave that for others who do know
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posted
Would be very informative if somebody has had a PCR made at Fry, and could post the result. Gale
Posts: 268 | From europe | Registered: May 2008
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posted
kelmo - sorry to hear about the loss of your mom. it must be hard.
bears - let's first back up a tiny bit.
My wife has gone through 4 years neurological diagnosis and treatment before we arrived to Lyme land, so I have a very personal interest in the finding of infection in relationship to chronic illness.
Having said that, a wish is not quite the same as proof.
My above comment for clarification is in direct response to kelmo's statement in that he said: "wtl: Dr. F believes chronic illness is caused by an infectious source AND genetic. Some people can carry the disease for years with no symptoms."
By simply reading the statement, it sounds like Dr. F has a proof (or close to having one) from his study that all chronic illness contains two necessary elements 1) genetic and 2) infection. So I merely ask (or challenge however you would like to read) if, in his discussion with Dr. F, did he find this to be provable, meaning that he can defend his finding that chronic illness is impossible without infection.
If in the study there are some samples of chronic illness have no infection cause, then I think the statement is either mis-quoted or false.
I admire your earlier statement that we should all be open-minded and not insist on a pre-assumed position. I hope by further examine what has been found in the study, it will benefit everyone.
I think skeptism in science and research field is a good thing. Look what IDSA and CDC have lead us to - they insist what they know and made a guideline out of their belief, not evidence.
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
No nothing new in terms of scientific publications and the like.Still research, I think.Like it says on the website."Coming soon"
Go the the post about "A new pcr test....." below where the issues are once again discussed- sort of.
Patients with Dr F insist that calling the lab will give you the information one needs, and that every LLMD knows about the latest news.
Dont know what information you might obtain, but in this forum no precise information about the identity of the pathogenes.The good old protozoa, haemobart and biofilm aspects. The protozoa has got a name, though,FL007-007 or something.
Treatmentwise, unfortunately,very very little has been mentioned.One mentions anti-malarials, that is it,I think.
[ 07-23-2010, 03:56 AM: Message edited by: galehane ]
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