Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
I wish I had known this years ago (father and father-in-law both had bladder cancer):
Antitumor effect of ascorbic acid, lysine, proline, arginine, and green tea extract on bladder cancer cell line T-24....
CONCLUSION: Our results suggest that our nutrient mixture is an excellent candidate for therapeutic use in the treatment of bladder cancer, by inhibiting critical steps in cancer development and spread, such as MMP secretion and invasion.
When you go to the link to read dosages, etc....note this "cocktail" reduces MMP2 and MMP9 (collagenases) which ARE also upregulated in lyme.
Many elderly people, particularly men, also suffer from *lysine deficiency*. These men develop urethra stenosis (hard to pee since the vessel is too narrowed).
With lysine out of balance with arginine, arginine takes over and increases NO = nitric oxide which is very dangerous in high levels in our systems.
Can you hear your joints cracking...a LOT?
Too much arginine *out of balance* with lysine.
Those persons who have the gene B16 arg/arg are especially at risk.
The body will try to counter the gene "mistake" by upregulating aldosterone to drive potassium lower because a potassium DEFICIENCY conserves lysine.
Someday we will use our genetic profiles to help Rx the right drugs for us and for guidance re: what nutrients, what foods we need and which ones we need to avoid in order to stay healthy for many years.
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Marnie
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posted
Up and see also my "attention alcoholics post"
This is vital stuff gang!!!!!!!!!!
It appears VITAL we downregulate MMP2 and MMP9 (collagenase which is breaking down our collagen).
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A 5 minute google check showed this combination has also been tested and show effective with reducing growth and incidence of pancreatic and mammary cancers!
That certainly begs the question, what other cancers could it reduce that have not been tested yet?
It is not clear to me, what combination/ratio of these is needed to be successful. That is how much to take of each orally. Have you seen anything that addresses this?
With respect to Lyme... that is pretty observant of you that this combo "reduces MMP2 and MMP9 (collagenases) which are also upregulated in lyme".
Any idea why these are out of balance due to lyme? This implies that Lyme could set us up for cancers....??
Many thanks Marnie,
Ernie
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Lymeorsomething
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posted
I think arginine may feed viruses too...whereas lysine works against viruses... Marnie?
Arginine may be a double-edged sword as it's supposed to help stimulate GH production but may enhance viral activity as well...
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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Marnie
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Member # 773
posted
This doesn't make sense:
"The secondary ***DNA binding sites*** (residues 195 to 209) of Borrelia spp. RecA proteins have polymorphisms at some positions, but these polymorphisms are conservative substitutions,
such as an arginine at position 198 in B. burgdorferi
in place of the lysine in other Borrelia spp.
A less conservative substitution was the substitution of glutamine for lysine at position 152."
So Bb is substituting arginine for lysine
and/or is substituting glutamine for lysine.
Sorta looks like Bb doesn't "like" lysine (?)
"To ascertain that arginine and lysine exert their effect by interacting with the peptide binding site of DnaK, we studied their ability to
***compete for protein binding to DnaK.***"
DnaK = HSP70...heat shock protein?
Lysine (abbreviated as Lys or K)...is that the K in DnaK?
So if Bb has no need for lysine, does it bind to (make) the heat shock protein?
Keep in mind, it appears the body is "interpreting" that the infected cells are too COLD because:
L-Lysine is a necessary building block for all protein in the body.
L-Lysine plays a major role in *calcium absorption*; building muscle protein; recovering from surgery or sports injuries; and the body's production of hormones, enzymes, and antibodies.
(Bb has a gene to EXPORT Ca and it has a calcium activated protein kinase (phosphate transport) INHIBITOR. It appears Bb does NOT "like" calcium.
Here's a good one:
There are Lysine conjugates that show promise in the treatment of cancer, by causing cancerous cells to destroy themselves
when the drug is combined with the use of phototherapy, while leaving non-cancerous cells unharmed.
Allysine is a derivative of Lysine, used in the production of elastin and collagen.
Now for some fun trivia:
The 1993 film Jurassic Park, which is based on the 1990 Michael Crichton novel Jurassic Park, features dinosaurs that were genetically altered so they could not produce lysine.
This was supposed to prevent the cloned dinosaurs from leaving the park, forcing them to depend on lysine supplements provided by the park's veterinary staff. Most vertebrates cannot produce lysine by default (it is an essential amino acid).
Back to the serious side:
Lysine acetylsalicylate has been used to treat rheumatoid arthritis and to detoxify heroin.
Contraindications Lysine supplementation is contraindicated in patients with kidney or liver disease.
Side note: vitamin Bt? = Carnitine . Carnitine is a non-essential amino acid produced in the liver, brain and the kidneys from the essential amino acids methionine and lysine.
A deficiency in lysine can result in a deficiency in niacin (which is a B Vitamin).
A lysine deficiency may also lead to calcium loss, which could increase the risk of developing osteoporosis.
Deficiency can cause kidney stones. (Most are calcium that is pulled out of the bones...estrogen helps keep Ca IN the bones.) My note: does this -> ``estrogen dominance''?
Lysine is dependent upon riboflavin (B2), niacin (B3), and Vitamin B6 for its assimilation. Using iron and Vitamin C, lysine helps form collagen.
In chickens: A severe lysine (Lys) deficiency alters thyroid hormone metabolism in chickens (the primary effect of a Lys deficiency is an elevation in plasma T3 without an accompanying change in T4).
Estrogen therapy results in higher total T3 levels.
Effects of lysine on calcium absorption, dental caries, gastric secretion, anemia, and in potassium deficiency have been reviewed in the light of known and possible physiological and physical properties of lysine.
Pellagra is a disease of malnutrition caused from a deficiency in Lysine, an essential amino acid. Lysine deficiency can result in a deficiency of niacin.
Niacin is a B vitamin essential for the normal function of the nervous system and the gastrointestinal tract.
Many elderly people, particularly men, also suffer from lysine deficiency. (Is that the prostate-urethra stenosis connection? Stenosis is plaque that lines vessels and it is made from calcium.)
In lab rats: a 4-d long L-lysine deficiency in rats interfered with the normal circadian release of the neurotransmitter serotonin, but not dopamine. Anxiety was significantly greater in the L-lysine-deficient rats
Some individuals who exhibit symptoms of B-6 deficiency may actually have a lysine deficiency that limits functional B-6 activity.
which works with..magnesium.
In addition, it is believed a lysine deficiency accentuates EFA deficiency.
Going back to the beginning...it would appear Bb is depleting arginine and lysine.
Together, they look to help out the mitochondria - couldn't post link because of a ( ) in the address.
Lysine in combination with arginine is used by bodybuilders for the combination's alleged effect of stimulating the release of growth hormone.
Now...later I'll try to figure out the other supplements listed.
I need a cup of coffee...desperately.
[ 05-25-2009, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
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nefferdun
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posted
I know that lysine is very good at reducing the outbreak of cold sores which are caused from a stored virus in the body, but arginine will aggravate cold sores. Arginine is good for fighting inflammation though. Someone posted recently that lysine helped eliminate their lyme induced headache. Glad you posted this - another supplement to add to the aresenal.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Marnie
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Member # 773
posted
Arginine in excess -> way too much NO (nitric oxide) which is very very damaging.
Do your joints crack...a LOT and loud?
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Pinelady
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Marnie if you have a constant elevated Chloride what is the best way you know of to block the Arginine? This is great!
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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Lymeorsomething
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posted
One needs to take a "whole bunch" of arginine generally to reap any boost in GH levels unfortunately....Argggg!
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Do NOT overdo either arginine OR lysine...esp. arginine 'cause too much nitric oxide is really really really bad!!!
Chloride channels look to open when glutamate (which Bb makes and then "eats") -> GABA.
GABA A and GABA C are chloride channels and these = fast inhibition.
GABA B is NOT a chloride channel and it -> slow inhibition.
I'm not sure GABA B is "working". It requires 2 helper proteins called Gi/Go and they have subsets and have to be made in sequence.
When the chloride channel is open, it appears the first to go in is Na followed by Ca (which Bb triggers to be exported).
That is the TRPM8 channel.
L-lysine looks to lower arginine levels.
They appear to "compete" for some of the same receptors.
I would approach this with a lot of caution...low doses with your docs "okay" to try.
Regarding high chloride:
"Abnormal chloride elevation is most commonly seen in forms of metabolic acidosis"
Consider a supplement called "AlkaMax" by TriMedica. It used to come with free litmus paper to test your own pH. I don't know if it still does (that paper is expensive to buy separately).
The only downside is it looks to contain a LITTLE glycine.
Remember timing is important 'cause you need stomach acids to digest food and you don't want to make your stomach "alkaline" too close to mealtime.
The bottle says 1 or 2 capsules 1 or 2 times a day or as directed by your physician.
It is probably a good idea to raise your pH first and later add any "acidic" supplements.
I know...the timing of all of this is nearly impossible.
Above all...keep pumping in the probiotics with a full glass of water one hour before a meal.
Gotta keep the gut healthy!
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