Topic: Chronic Fatigue On and Off throughout Day, What is this ?
lymetwister
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19590
posted
I had this in the past and was sleeping excessively and still tired when getting up, etc.
I got rid of it a while back.
The last few days, out of nowhere, I get this sensation of "I have to lay down" as my eyes get so heavy and sleepy. I don't lay down and just sit and do whatever. Next thing I know, I feel awake. Not like I could go conquer the world, but I'm pretty much awake.
This has been going on the last few days in addition to some pretty heavy crying spells.
In addition, I have felt pretty weak all over with this Herx or whatever it is.
Don't know what to make of it, do you ?
Lymetwister
Posts: 1227 | From District of Columbia | Registered: Mar 2009
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Fatigue will probably be the last symptom to resolve. I find if I pay attention and rest when my body tells me to I do much better.
Adrenal dysfunction as is common with lyme (and the crying spells that indicates your brain is also exhausted or you are low in magnesium). And, of course, is the toxic load has to be considered as that can lead to depression, too. Doing too much can also come back to zap you.
I've found that adrenal and liver support, as well as being gluten-free, can help reduce fatigue. But, still, it's very profound. I find that when my body shuts down that, if I don't listen right then and rest, it gets worse.
This all takes time. And your body requires more rest to heal. Listen to what your body needs. Short rests throughout the day may be needed.
But, I'd look at your adrenal support and magnesium level. That helps with ATP and mitochrondia function to provide sustained energy.
posted
I get like this too. How do you know if your adrenal is messed up? I suspect mine is. Is there a test I should ask for?
-------------------- My lyme disease blog: http://lymetimes3.blogspot.com/ One BIG Lyme family! I tested CDC + 10/08 My mom Igenex + 11/08 & My brother Igenex + 4/09, My 2 boys some + & IND bands, clinical diagnosis 3/09 (youngest has Aspergers too) Posts: 470 | From Painesville, Ohio | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Lymetwister - I can't remember (seems to be a common theme lately with me) whether you posted previously that you had POTS or NMH?
-------------------- All comments are for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice - please consult a physician before following any advice. Posts: 37 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Feb 2009
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lymetwister
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19590
posted
Keebler, how much mag should one take per day ? I have Mag Citrate 100mg capsules.
What else for adrenal support do you recommend ?
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Mag Citrate is very good.
I take 1000 mg of magnesium glycinate a day (Metagenics - from my ND) - or more. Calcium has to come up, too.
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From normal people, Dr. Oz suggests 600-800 mg magnesium and 1200 mg of calcium day.
I take more because it helps control seizures and hyperacsis at the higher rate. Lyme patients are typically very low in magnesium.
Dr. Burrascano's Treatment Guidelines, 16th edition, October, 2008
From a word search of this document, nine mentions of magnesium were found. All of those are included in these excerpts:
. . .
Page 6:
Magnesium deficiency is very often present and quite severe.
Hyperreflexia, muscle twitches, myocardial irritability, poor stamina and recurrent tight muscle spasms are clues to this deficiency.
Magnesium is predominantly an intracellular ion, so blood level testing is of little value.
Oral preparations are acceptable for maintenance, but those with severe deficiencies need additional, parenteral dosing: 1 gram IV or IM at least once a week until neuromuscular irritability has cleared.
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Page 25:
Levofloxacin is generally well tolerated, with almost no stomach upset. Very rarely, it can cause confusion- this is temporary (clears in a few days) and may be relieved by lowering the dose.
There is, however, one side effect that would require it to be stopped- it may cause a painful tendonitis, usually of the largest tendons. If this happens, then the levofloxacin must be stopped or tendon rupture may occur.
It has been suggested that loading the patient with magnesium may prevent this problem, and if the tendons do become affected, parenteral high dose vitamin C (plus parenteral magnesium) may afford rapid relief.
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Page 28 (in the supplement section):
6. MAGNESIUM (required)
Magnesium supplementation is very helpful for the tremors, twitches, cramps, muscle soreness, heart skips and weakness. It may also help in energy level and cognition.
The best source is magnesium L-lactate dehydrate (``Mag-tab SR'', sold by Niche Pharmaceuticals: 1-800-677-0355, and available at Wal-Mart).
DO NOT rely on ``cal-mag'', calcium plus magnesium combination tablets, as they are not well absorbed. Take at least one tablet twice daily.
Higher doses increase the benefit and should be tried, but may cause diarrhea. In some cases, intramuscular or intravenous doses may be necessary.
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Page 30:
. . .
OTHER OPTIONAL SUPPLEMENTS
VITAMIN D
Surprisingly, most people in America are vitamin D deficient. In the Lyme patient, low vitamin D levels can cause diffuse body aches and cramps that are not responsive to magnesium or calcium supplements.
lymetwister
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19590
posted
Is Glycinate better absorbed than Mag Citrate ? What dose of Mag Citrate is equivilant to Mag Glycinate ?
Posts: 1227 | From District of Columbia | Registered: Mar 2009
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Yes Glycinate is better Lymetwister - 1,000 mg+. You mentioned you take 200 mg Citrate - that's nothing.
To answer your original question, yep get these spells ALL the time. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Neuroscience does a great panel on adrenal and neurotransmitter production. Get it done if you can and follow the recommendations. For starters, if you know you have a flat cortisol curve start on a glandular (nutricology is cheap and fine) and a good adaptogen. Adrecor is what neuroscience recommends, but this one needs to be adapted (no pun intended) to the individual. I use WTSMED. Muscle-testing is a great way to determine which adaptogen is best for you.
The last post in my blog is entirely fatigue related. I absolutely believe anaerobic metaoblism is at the root of classical CFS symptoms, since that's what I have left despite hitting the infections hard for the last year (with much success).
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Adrenals can be wasted due to many things, but reliance on anaerobic metabolism increases the cellular demand for glycogen and glucose, which simultaneously stresses out the liver, pancreas, and the adrenals. All of these participate in carbohydrate metabolism.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymetwister
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Member # 19590
posted
Does one have to worry about Hypermagnesemia, too much magnesium in the system ?
Posts: 1227 | From District of Columbia | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
lyme depletes magnesium, so I wouldn't think so
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
Amy C, you can ask for a saliva test (4x/24 hrs) or a 24/hr urine test. These tests are preferable to blood testing but are not perfect either. However, they may give you some idea on how well your adrenals are doing. Genova is one lab that does the saliva testing. The 24/hr urine may be easier to get through average docs....
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
quote:Originally posted by Amy C: I get like this too. How do you know if your adrenal is messed up? I suspect mine is. Is there a test I should ask for?
My LLMD ordered an adrenal test for me through Diagnos-Techs. It is a saliva test. Samples are collected four times throughout a one day period.
The report was about four pages long and was quite informative.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
My favorite magnesium supplement is CALM from Peter Gilliham.
It's a powder that dissolves completely in hot water, so it gets metabolized easily.
It makes it easy to get LOTS of magnesium!
You can start slow and work up to "bowel tolerance." (When the poop gets too loose, you're taking too much)
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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