David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521
posted
Hey folks,
I don't post often any more but check in almost daily. On the Lyme front, all seems to be well. Due to procurement difficulties with Bicillin, I cut back from three to once a week for a while and started having tendon pain, again. With a secure supply, I've gone back to three times a week and that is all better.
Now for the topic of the day. On Sunday I found what looked like a mosquito bite. It was raised and itched. By yesterday morning the surrounding are had become reddened to less than an inch in diameter. There was a small central lesion.
By ealy afternoon, the reddened area was about two inches in diameter so I went to a walk-in clinic (the one where the Lyme diagnosis was first brought up). At this point I was suspecting it was a spider bite.
The PA who saw me was fairly certain that it is MRSA, although early in the presentation, and prescribed Trimeth Sulfa DS (Bactrim?) twice a day. He said that if the central lesion becomes much larger or more raised I will need to have it drained and suggested I give it forty-eight hours. He was pretty nonchalant about it.
This morning the reddening and inflamation has further extended. My question is: Does the intervention seem appropriate or sufficient? What are your thought and or experiences?
Dave
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
This is time I wish this forum would allow attachments of photos in the post.
I have no answer obviously, but I hope someone will chime in soon. It sounds like a great concern.
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Hi Dave,
Sorry to hear that. I am no expert on MRSA, but your description sounds like pictures that I have seen of MRSA lesions.
Can you go back to the walk-in clinic today? That is 24-hours ahead of his suggestion to wait two days, but if it is expanding and you will need to have it looked at or drained tomorrow anyway, why not check it out again today and perhaps have it taken care of? Hope that it goes away soon!
How did you get exposed to that, is it near the bicillin injection points?
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
Yep that's bactrim...they Rx that here for MRSA too. It ought to start to get better within a couple of days I'd think, otherwise you may have to go back and get it looked at again.
MRSA is real common here...it goes around schools, nursing homes, ect...they say it's in the air and sometimes have people swab their nasal passages with bacitracin.
Scary, with all the stories about it, hope it goes away quickly.
Charlie
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521
posted
Thanks folks, I am not overly alarmed but don't want to miss a window of opportunity to contain this. Dave
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Lots of people post photos here - but they are imbedded and I have no idea how to do that.
The doctor did send this away for testing, correct? It would be dandy if they could identify the specific strain, too.
---
Not to be alarming but, yes, if this is MRSA, it requires the upmost attention and very specific care. You may need to tend this for a few months beyond the disappearance of the lesion.
Your LLMD would need to know about this and may have good suggestions.
The nonchalant attitude of the PA you saw concerns me. While you don't need to be alarmed, I'm not sure they gave you the best instruction in how to keep this from becoming systemic - or from infecting others.
---
There was a study in the UK where a cream with ALLICIN cured MRSA lesions. I'll see if I can find the link - it's somewhere in my file.
Whatever you do, swift and precise action is necessary - for for some time even after the lesion may disappear.
Be very careful not to touch that and then touch your skin elsewhere as it is easily spread. Be very careful will all materials you use to dress it. You don't want any of that to be touched inadvertently when someone adds a tissue to the trash basket.
You may need to keep it covered so as to keep clothing from becoming contaminated and so as to protect others.
-
I would also load up on the very best allicin capsules that you can. (But this is just my opinion.) I don't know about combining allicin with your current treatment but you can ask.
-
[ 06-02-2009, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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British Journal of Biomedical Science > 2004
Antibacterial activity of a new, stable, aqueous extract of allicin against methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus
Cutler, R R and Wilson, P
ABSTRACT
The increasing prevalence of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) in hospitals and the community has led to a demand for new agents that could be used to decrease the spread of these bacteria.
Topical agents such as mupirocin have been used to reduce nasal carriage and spread and to treat skin infections; however, resistance to mupirocin in MRSAs is increasing.
Allicin is the main antibacterial agent isolated from garlic, but natural extracts can be unstable.
In this study, a new, stable, aqueous extract of allicin (extracted from garlic) is tested on 30 clinical isolates of MRSA . . . .
Of the strains tested, 88% had MICs for allicin liquids of 16 µg/mL, and all strains were inhibited at 32 µg/mL.
Furthermore, 88% of clinical isolates had MBCs of 128 µg/mL, and all were killed at 256 µg/mL.
Of these strains, 82% showed intermediate or full resistance to mupirocin; however, this study showed that a concentration of 500 µg/mL in an aqueous cream base was required to produce an activity equivalent to 256 µg/mL allicin liquid.
=====================
A six-month study, "They found it can cure MRSA within weeks"
Dec. 24, 2003 BBC.com (Second article below: Mar. 19, 2004)
Garlic 'beats hospital superbug'
The ingredient which gives garlic its distinctive smell is the latest weapon in the battle to beat the hospital "superbug" MRSA.
University of East London researchers found allicin treated even the most antibiotic-resistant strains of the infection.
MRSA (Methecillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) causes an estimated 2,000 deaths in UK hospitals each year.
Researchers are now testing allicin products in a six-month study.
Dr Ron Cutler and his team discovered the effectiveness of allicin in laboratory tests five years ago.
They found it can cure MRSA within weeks.
It is even effective against the newer strains which cannot be treated by the "last line of defence" antibiotics Vancomycin and Glycopeptides.
Fatal infections
The team have developed a nasal cream, pills and soaps.
"The effect of the treatment was dramatic" - Deborah Brown, patient
Initial trials have proved effective, so researchers will now test them in a six-month study of 200 volunteers including healthcare workers and patients.
The scientists hope the products will be used by people working in hospitals so they can prevent MRSA being passed on to patients, as well as the patients themselves.
MRSA organisms can live harmlessly in humans, carried in the nasal passages and on the skin, but they can cause fatal infections in immune-suppressed patients, the elderly, the young and those with surgical implants.
Dr Cutler told BBC News Online: "My aim would be to firstly work to try and reduce the carriage of MRSA amongst healthcare workers.
"But we would also hope to use allicin treatments for patients themselves."
He added: "The trials we have conducted so far show that this formulation is highly effective against MRSA, and it could save many lives.
"MRSA is causing a genuine crisis in our hospital system in Britain and worldwide. Antibiotics are increasingly ineffective, but we do have a powerful natural ally.
"Plant compounds have evolved over millions of years as chemical defence agents against infection.
"Garlic has been used in medicine for centuries, and it should be no surprise that it is effective against this very modern infection."
'Incredibly painful'
Deborah Brown, 34, from Rainham in Kent, contracted MRSA after a major spinal operation in November 2000.
Painful wounds on her spine failed to heal for two years, despite using the antibiotics and creams currently available.
But within two months of using the allicin creams and pills, her MRSA had virtually cleared and the wounds had begun to heal.
She said: "The effect of the treatment was dramatic - I am making a good recovery - but it was really awful at the time.
"Having weeping wounds on my back that never healed was incredibly painful and I became increasingly depressed as the MRSA didn't respond to repeated courses of antibiotics.
"If my case helps to show that allicin works against MRSA then I am glad that something good might come of it."
The research is to be published in the Journal of Biomedical Science next year.
European Society of Clinical Microbiology and Infectious Diseases
15 European Congress of Clinical Microbiology and Infectious Diseases
Copenhagen/Denmark, April 2-5, 2005
Treatment of chronic MRSA infections using a novel aqueous extract of allicin (AB1000)
Abstract number: 1134_03_351
Cutler R.R., Josling P.D., Bennett N.J.
Excerpt:
. . .
Patients reported an improvement in their condition after 2 and 6 weeks treatment and the infections resolved in 3-4 months.
Although the timescales required for treatment may be longer than those normally required using antibiotics, the initial relief from weeping ulcers and pain was much quicker. It should be noted these the patients had been receiving unsuccessful treatment with antibiotics for months or years prior to treatment with AB1000.
A possible reason for the initial relief from symptoms could relate to the reported activity of garlic extracts to neutralise bacterial exoenzymes in vitro. This could account for the findings that patients got relief from their symptoms before the MRSA were fully removed from the lesion site.
============
A Google Search of "how to dress a MRSA lesion" brings up several interesting results.
Wash your clothes using detergent plus a scoop of oxyclean.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Marnie,
Great links. Thanks so much. And, yes, consulting with a dermatologist seems an excellent idea.
I so appreciate seeing that article about Himalayan oregano oil.
The first Mayo link answered my question as to if MRSA can move from a lesion into the body. Apparently, it can. And that is why I think systemic attention is needed as part of the treatment of the lesion (just my opinion, again, though).
" Sometimes the bacteria remain confined to the skin. But they can also penetrate into the body, causing potentially life-threatening infections in bones, joints, surgical wounds, the bloodstream, heart valves and lungs."
quote:Originally posted by wtl: [QB] This is time I wish this forum would allow attachments of photos in the post.
It IS allowed.
David, I'm very sorry you are dealing with this. I would be very concerned .. as opposed to that doctor!!
You may need to go to the ER if it gets any worse. You have to stay ahead of the game.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
The PA should have taken a wound culture and checked for sensitivities at the lab.
What you have described does in fact sound like MRSA but still some strains respond better to different medications.
If the area is not looking better after 24hrs you may want to have it checked again. If it is looking worse, more redness, red streaks, feeling worse over all, anything like that and you should definitely see a doctor sooner.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
Here is information about allicin treating MRSA.
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
don't mean to alarm you, but my mom had mrsa. she also had a lot of other things going on, but it was the initial diagnosis which started the downhill spiral which she never recovered from.
get it checked out as soon as you can.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521
posted
So... Here's an update.
I went back and saw one of the physicians. To took one look and said it does not appear to be MRSA. A culture was taken Sunday but the results wont be back until tomorrow or Thursday.
He suspects shingles (exept it doesn't hurt), a herpes zoster infection, and I brought up the possibility of poison oak which is EVERYWHERE up here in the foothills. So he took another culture, had me stop the Bactrim, and started me on five days of Valtrex.
I'll give further updates.
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Oh, my. While I hope it is not MRSA, Shingles is certainly nothing to laugh at, either. I thought that produced more of a bruised, blood under the skin appearance that can even wrap around the waist line.
Be sure to read up on Singles so that you can address it as aggressively and completely as possible. This can be very painful and can also last a long time . . . . so, you will need to stay ahead of that - perhaps even preventing that from happening.
Be sure to call your LLMD about this. Many here also take Valtrex (for HHV-6). Your LLMD may want you to stay on a longer course than what the doctor you saw today suggests.
If this is Singles, 5 days of Rx is not enough but they are probably waiting for the results of the test.
The allicin and allicin cream would still be a good idea. Reading some of the reviews on the cream page, it seemed to relieve pain for some.
posted
Keep us posted, David! Glad you went back to the dr!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521
posted
Thanks all. On the Lyme front, it's kind of interesting to note that no one at the walk-in clinic seemed taken aback over me being on long-term antibiotics. It's so totally rampant in this town. I know seven people in my profession who have chronic Lyme, and I'm relatively shy.
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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karenl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17753
posted
You can take six allicin Dr. Z a day. Can you rife? in addition HH and Coptis works. You could discuss with Dr. Z and also stay on the herbs long term even after antibiotics.I heard tea tree oil is good and tea tree soap.
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
david,
if you go to COMPUTER QUESTIONS, someone has posted there how to download photos and post here on the forum.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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David,
You should have your test results back by now. Was that MRSA or Shingles? Or . . . ? Did they possibly test it to see if from spider bite or maybe even for borrelia?
Is the rash gone? If not, take photos. And then look up "black widow" bite.
karenl has good suggestions. And, depending upon your weight, allicin capsule may have to be increased in number. I think the Hepapro allicin is simply the best in the world and I've tried them all (even Allimax):
kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
My dad started with MRSA on his leg. He said it started out like a pimple, then looked like a spider bite. Within a day or two it was a painful boil. He had to be hospitalized and had IV Vancomycin for several months.
He got it from a hospital where my brother was staying.
For over a year, my parents kept passing MRSA back and forth. It was in their respiratory tracks, arms, hands. I couldn't go over to visit them for fear of bringing it back to my daughter who is sick with Lyme & Co.
I asked them to have the dog checked because I read that a woman kept getting reinfected by her cat. The cat harbored the bacteria in her nose.
My parent's dog eventually passed away, and the MRSA infection disappeared.
My mother just passed away. She had to have her lungs suctioned the week before and I asked for them to check for MRSA. They didn't find any.
The antibacterial soaps are good, but don't use them all the time. You wash away the acid mantle of the skin, exposing you to reinfection. It's a catch 22. If you have a pet, have them tested.
Hope this helps.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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Hoosiers51
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Member # 15759
posted
Google the "herpes diet" if you have shingles. It should give you a list of foods with high arginine and high lysine.
You want to eat foods that are LOW in arginine and HIGH in lysine. Or take a Lysine supplement.
For example, I never eat nuts (high arginine) without including some dairy (high lysine) to balance it out.
This diet I believe has caused me to test negative for many viruses.
Also, with MRSA, studies show that green tea helps the antibiotics work better, and it helps bypass the resistance issues.
Green tea can cause a very few drugs to not work as well (so check that out as well), but in general, it causes some antibiotics to work better, and like I said, not as many issues with the bacteria forming resistance to the antibiotic when green tea is added.
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karenl
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Member # 17753
posted
If it is not getting better also look at the morgellons photos.Allicin would work as well. Just to make sure you are not getting the wrong diagnosis, I don't want to worry you.
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521
posted
Thanks for your concern. As of Thursday I didn't ahve test results because they were cultures and ahd to grow. I'm leaning toward it being a spider bite because: a.) It has actually gotten better, unlike MRSA b.) It doesn't hurt, unlike shingles.
I'll call later today to see if they have results yet but it seems like the two more serious possibilities have more-or-less been ruled out. As it is, the reddening around it is almost gone and it has stopped draining.
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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karenl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17753
posted
thanks keebler, if you have no idea what it is allicin is always an option. Dr. Z also sells an allicin spry for the skin. The smell is horrible but you can wrap a towel around , that helps.
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