posted
For the past couple months I have been experiencing a fast heart beat with light headedness especially when standing.
All heart tests came back normal. I have been diagnosed with Babesia, Ehrlichia, and Lyme, and started treatment the beginning of April.
I will be seeing a cardiologist for a tilt table test. Also have read about POTS and NMH and am also taking magnesium supplements. My doctor mentioned today that taking salt might help.
At the beginning of treatment I had palpitations, but they have gone away. Just the fast heartbeat remains. This has been very scary for me.
Just wanted to know if anyone has been able to overcome this during treatment. Thank you very much for sharing.
Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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What is the level of magnesium you are currently take? And how much fish oil?
Adding a little more sea salt (it has to be sea salt, not table salt) might help. I'd start by increasing in increments of 1/8 tsp a day until you find your good point but ask the doctor for the top number that would desirable in your case.
If you get puffiness, back down. Since you have irregular heart rhythm, you don't want to get too much salt but too little, too, can pose problems.
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You might also consider adding Hawthorn extract to help your heart. It can really help normalized the beats.
And, Calcium, too. Did you increase your calcium levels when you started your magnesium supplements?
And . . . what are the adrenal support supplements you are taking? Just the right ones will help the heart, too.
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You said you had all the tests but you still might want to read through this thread:
I've had it since my neuro symptoms reared their ugly heads.
I haven't overcome it yet.
It's more than likely part of your dysautonomia package (POTS, NMH).
Mine was a little better until I recently started a new protocol which includes tx for Bart.
Now, esp. when I'm fatigued(end of day), my heart rate is faster,
maybe has some arrythmia thrown in too, as I have some occasional pangs. Definitely feels "electrical".
Anyway, my resting heart rate is still way above normal.
I noticed on my last labs that my sodium is on the lower side too.....
sorry. I'm no help. but: you're definitely not alone. My sister's had tachycardia for years and years.
Posts: 571 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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It's often not so much that one is not getting enough sodium with POTS or NMH but the kidneys and adrenals are not able to keep it stable in the body, due to endocrine dysfunction but also due to liver stress from toxins.
Cordyceps might be one other helper there, too, as it helps both kidney and adrenal support. Being sure your liver support is there also can help.
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This is included in Burrascano's Guidelines, but you may want to be able to refer to it separately, too:
Nutritional Supplements in Disseminated Lyme Disease
J.J. Burrascano, Jr., MD (2008)
==================
This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, holds great information about treatments options and support measures, including those for adrenals, liver and heart:
disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
I've had tachycardia (fast heartbeat) since I was in high school (I'm 25 years old now). It's been with me for a long time. I was bit when I was around 14 years old, so I've had symptoms of lyme for a long time. Of course when I had tachycardia way back then I didn't really put the tick bite and the tachycardia together. I had no idea there was such a thing as lyme disease or ticks carrying diseases. UNFORTUNATELY.
So I've lived most of my life with a fast pulse and really no break from it.
I'm on a beta blocker now. I'm also on Florinef for my low blood pressure. The beta blocker has helped a lot. But I've had to up it to 50mg after a year because I was having breakthrough tachycardia even on the 25mg.
The only thing I've noticed that helped my tachycardia for a very short time was while I was on Bartonella treatment. I was actually able to stop the beta blockers and my pulse was normal. It lasted for maybe a month or so. The tachycardia came back full force after starting Bactrim and herxing off it. And since then, I've never had any breaks from it again. Though it does seem like Babesia treatment has helped it somewhat.
I wish I could be of more help.
I'd also be prepared with the tilt table test. Many people who do it feel awful for weeks afterward.
Good luck.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Keebler~ Yes, I am taking 750mg of Magnesium Malate (Pharmax Brand) as directed by my LLMD.
However, I did not increase my calcium intake since blood tests always showed levels were okay. Is supplementation still recommended even though levels are okay?
Regarding Fish Oil: I have Carlsons Fish oil 1000mg per teaspoon. I have so many supplements to take I am working at being more consistent with the oil.
Thanks for the links. I will take a look at them.
Distrurbedme~ Why do people feel bad after the tilt table test? I thought it just measured blood pressure and pulse at different positions. Maybe I have a misconception of what will occur.
Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009
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This is my first post although I was diagnosed with Lyme in 1995. By the time I received my diagnosis I was having supraventricular tachychardias that landed me in the hospital via ambulance for 2 years. Remarkably they diminished with treatment and my heart was healthy and everything else checked out ok. I had two other incidents and since they corresponded with a rise in other symptoms I continued to, as did my cardiologist, equate this with relapse of Lyme. For me what is scary about this disease that simply won't go away is that I had another incident two weeks ago( basically heart rate goes form resting pulse -I was sleeping- to 240 bpm) that included raised Troponin levels ( indicating a heart attack) and a "bad" EKG.After a heart catheritization I found out that it was not heart disease. I am really empathetic of any heart symptoms ( especially because for me the worst is that I am woken form sleep)- it is scary- and for me who had been pushing physically(biking, swimming)I feel like a turtle who has to pull in and cool my jets so to speak. Could Lyme create these bizarre spikes in cardiac enzymes when there is no othe rreason given? In any event- Needed to share that I also am puzzled and at the same time sure it has something to do with Lyme. Any researchers out ther? Thanks for sharing.
-------------------- wendyidewilliams Posts: 2 | From Ravena | Registered: Dec 2006
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Apparently Co-Q10, L-Cartine and D-Ribose taken together really works for people with Lyme. Google it.
Posts: 770 | From USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Ditto to what Myco says. That is a wonderful combination.
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Morning Song,
When you take your test, my guess is that you should be off all supplements for a few days prior and certainly take none the day of the test. I would have some good protein powder, with greens powders, too with me to mix up right there after the test. I'd do it even before getting back off the table.
about a Tilt Table test:
1. you have to stand for a long time, until sort passing out (you would be strapped onto a table, so you will be secure.
2. There is an solution put in your arm by IV. I actually did okay with that.
- For me, they did the test wrong. I was used to pumping my legs if I ever had to stand up for even a few minutes. When I felt faint shortly after the table got into the upright position, I just pumped my legs.
I though I was supposed to stay "with it" for as long as I could. Interns had been overseeing my test and when the doctor came to look in, he saw my working my legs and said I should not have been doing that as it ruined the test results.
He seemed to think that I had NMH, though and suggested Florinef or increasing my sea salt until I felt better.
I wish he had known about other adrenal support as that took forever for me to learn about. All this was years before I even knew anything about lyme, too.
posted
Wendy~ My heart goes out to you and all you have been through. Thanks for posting.
Myco~
That was really helpful information. One of my labs showed low in L-Carnitine. My doctor has also prescribed D-Ribose. Googled these as you have suggested:
"Since the nutrient L-Carnitine is responsible for shuttling fatty acids into the powerhouse of our cells, where they can be burned for fuel, the heart is consequently dependent on L-Carnitine for most of its energy production...
Several scientists have studied the effect of L-Carnitine supplementation on frequency and severity of anginal pain. Dr. Cacciatore studied patients with previously diagnosed exercise-induced angina for six months.
Given 2,000 milligrams (mg) of L-Carnitine per day, he observed them for irregular heartbeat patterns (arrhythmias) and their tolerance to exercise. He found that his supplemented subjects showed both significant and progressive improvement in cardiac function and quality of life during the six months of treatment"
Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Yes, I am reading THE SINATRA SOLUTION - Metabolic Cardiology and it is fascinating. Dr. Sinatra in CT has helped many with heart disease and CFS on this combo (must be all three). Reversed heart failure, high BP and prevented bypass in alot of patients. Amazing read!
Posts: 770 | From USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I wrote down the name of the book and these supplements. I can't take Co-Q10 now because doctor has me starting Mepron. Does he give recommended dosing in his book?
Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Thanks!
Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009
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klutzo
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Member # 5701
posted
Like Wendy, I also awoke from sleep with supraventricular tachycardias (PSVTs), and I also had them in overwheliming situations, like noisy places, or in crowds, or if I exerted myself, such as climbing stairs.
My pulse went up to 165 and became very abnormal, with no back beat. I had chills, diarrhea, and all of the sx of a heart attack. This went on for 1 1/2 hrs. each time, and was happening 1-3 times per night in the winter months, for 12 long years, before I got a cardiac event monitor which diagnosed it in one night.
I could not afford the copayment on a $60K radio frequency ablation procedure to fix it, so I take slow release Verapamil 240 mgs. and a large dose of L-tryptophan (3 grams at night), and avoid things that trigger it, and have not had an attack in two years. Of course, I no longer have a life either.
I come close to having attacks, waking up from dreaming about running with the start of symptoms, but the meds shut it down in a couple minutes.
Mine started with just a plain fast heartbeat of 110-130 when I stood up. Over the years it progressed to panic attacks, and then PSVTs.
The moral of my story is to keep pushing that down that treatment road. I have had no ABX due to allergy, and this is what happens when you don't. This year, a new progression has been added. For the first year ever, the problem did not go away when we went on daylight savings time.
I normally drive only in summer, when my heart does not feel like it might take off at any second, and I really look forward to it, but this year I can't, so it looks like my driving days are over. PSVTs carry a 30% chance of blacking out, so it is too risky.
klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Klutzo thanks for your encouragement to keep pushing down the treatment road and for sharing your personal story. My heart goes out to you to and pray that you will we able to drive again.
BTW, I grew up in the St.Petersburg, Largo, Clearwater area -- I'm familiar with your stomping grounds. I wish you the best in your recovery.
Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009
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There is some real peace in understanding you are not alone. I empathize with you klutzo, keebler, morning song. I do think running in a race 2 weeks prior to this event exacerbated but I cannot face never running for fun again. And I understand there will be no hiking this summer, or driving for you.But could you drive off highways that allowed you to feel a little safety if you needed to pull off to recover and/or get some help? Just wondering. I am back on abx. I do think these cardiac moments are driven by the Lyme infection. Wendy
-------------------- wendyidewilliams Posts: 2 | From Ravena | Registered: Dec 2006
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
My heartrate used to be in the high 90's, working with a doctor to treat autonomic neuropathy by boosting my methylation system has lowered it so it is usually in the low 80's now.
He did a combination of supplements, and they were somewhat based on things I was low in. Included Vitamin C, magnesium, B vitamins and amino acids.
(This doctor is in southern Maryland, I'm not sure where in Virginia you are, but PM me if you want information)
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
beths- Thank you sooo much for sharing. That is such an encouragement. Someday I would like to run in a race. Did you do mainly IV or oral?
Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
j_liz I am glad you are seeing a big difference. Do you just put the salt into a glass of water and drink it?
Also my LLMD gave me a prescription for calcium 10mg(even though labs show fine) along with magnesium supplementation. I was wondering what a calcium channel blocker is.
Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009
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I use to take the salt tabs, but after awhile I just couldn't bring myself to swallow them. Psychological.
I mix 1/4 tsp in a small amt of water and drink it. If I wasn't drinking enough water throughout the day I would follow it with a glass of water.
I take the salt, not just to please him, but it is so good for us. I am talking unrefined salt. I read a good book, simple too, called "Salt Your Way to Health".
I don't understand how bb's and ccb's work, all I get is they block some kind of receptors. It doesn't have anything to do with supplements of calcium being blocked.
Sorry, I don't know if it's my Lyme brain that can't figure it out or if I wouldn't be able to figure it out with a healthy brain, either. LOL
posted
My daughter and I both have had tachycardia. I had it with PVC's and it was, I think, hormonal,although Lyme treatment may have helped (can't tell, because my treatment was during menopause years).
My daughter had a resting heart rate of 140, and saw stars getting up. She has trouble taking showers. The EKG showed supraventricular tachycardia. One cardiologist wanted to do ablation (she was very symptomatic) but the other one (who was a prominent urban MD) said it was just hormones.
It did go away in a couple of months, although she still sees stars in the shower because of low blood pressure.
She has also had panic attacks, which are fearsome, so that is an interesting connection for us to look into. Whenever a healthy person might feel nervous, as before an exam, or before meeting someone new, or whatever, there is always a chance that her body will overreact and produce full-blown panic. I never connected this to her heart problem, which was 3 or 4 years ago now.
Neither of us can tolerate beta-blockers due to low blood pressure, and I wonder if people have problems with verapamil for that reason (it is also used for migraines, another problem in our house).
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posted
Beta blockers (atenolol) and verapamil made my bp better than it ever was, by slowing my heart rate my heart was able to fill and pump more efficiently.
posted
YES i overcame it it was my first major symptom that something was wrong, first being my thumb started twitching for over two months straight then i started having minor palpitations, i mean like 1 a week and then one night went to bed and woke up my body was vibrating by the time i got to the ER my heart rate was 230. After that sitting it would be normal the second i would stand it would go to 160 within seconds and as i would walk it would climb to almost 200 and the palpitations were constant. I was out of breath just walking to the bathroom. At this point didnt know a thing about lyme disease. I ended up at clevland heart clinic becuase the idiots where i lived kept telling me it was stress and anxiety LMAO!!!! which im sure I was stressed and having anxiety but becuase they were idiots. I was finally diag with IST innapropriate sinus tachnicardia and put on 25 mg of atenolol which didnt do a thing, I also had major regergitation in all 4 valves and they said my heart was a mess and wanted to do surgery called an ablation I opted NOT to as it was permanent. i lived that was for 7 months with a heart monitor attached to me, I was 26. agian for knowing i had lyme I started reasearching chronic illness.my eating habits were not good and i found alot of info about organic food helping chronic illness which i new something was causing this. I switched to 100% organic diet started walking even through i wsa out of breath and with in 1 month my heart symp after living with this for about 8 months were 90% better and as I continued with clean water (penta water) and clean organic food and cut out red meat the IST went away but the other syms got worse body pain , memory etc etc I then found lyme and started to be treated and had some palps during treatment but the heart conditon two years later is still gone and my cardiologist says my heart looks healthy doesnt see anything and ive been on atenolol for about 8 months now and am even doing aerobic excercise and jogging without any problems. I know changing food will not work for everyone but its an easy thing to try and see if you get any benefit. Organic food was my saving grace when it came to my heart.
Posts: 229 | From front royal, VA | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
beta blockers work if its your heart only, BUT if with most cases of illness it is the automic nervous system that is affected as with lyme and beta blockers although worth being on a low dose do not really provide much relief
Posts: 229 | From front royal, VA | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
beta blockers work if its your heart only, BUT if with most cases of illness it is the automic nervous system that is affected as with lyme and beta blockers although worth being on a low dose do not really provide much relief
Posts: 229 | From front royal, VA | Registered: Jun 2008
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Thanks so much for sharing your success story, and that it is indeed possible to overcome a fast heart beat. What an encouragement. Believing that it is possible for me too.
Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009
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timaca
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6911
posted
Does anyone know of a patient forum that deals only with cardiac issues, including tachycardia?
Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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I just wanted to mention to you that a small dose of bb is very helpful to me and those I know with dysautonomia. (None of us can take a reg. size dose.)
posted
timaca yes there is, thats where i started when i had IST before i knew i had lyme google dysautonomia forum or pots forum and it will be the first link.
Yes bb in a small dose will help with palpitation but regarding heart rate, if its caused by the automic nervous system bb will not help lower heart rate. but I did take atenenol and found it helpful with palps but most people i know with just this issue and not lyme arent on bb because it didnt help thier heart rate
Posts: 229 | From front royal, VA | Registered: Jun 2008
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ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
quote:Originally posted by whatayear: Yes bb in a small dose will help with palpitation but regarding heart rate, if its caused by the automic nervous system bb will not help lower heart rate. but I did take atenenol and found it helpful with palps but most people i know with just this issue and not lyme arent on bb because it didnt help thier heart rate
timaca,
The only way to find out is to try it. BB's help me immensely and my severely elevated BP & heart rate ARE ANS involved.
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Whatayear, I don't mean to get into a debate with you (and won't), but wanted you to know I do not take it for palpitations, I take it for IST (tachycardia). It is true however, that I needed to add verapamil to the mix to better control the tachycardia.
Also, the NCS is a dysautonomia and the sm. dose bb is a big help with that.
I see Ping finds it helpful with dysautonomia, too. Ping is right, everybody will have to try it for themselves, because we are all different.
Timaca, you can go to NDRF, but unfort. they won't allow open discussion anymore about treatment or links for further education. But there is a lot of info you can get there.
A lot of us members of NDRF have switched over to IMAZEBRA.net Everybody is very helpful there and they will share what worked for them and where you can get more info.
You can, also, look up Medhelp's cardio forum and research there. You can do searches on their site (archives) and find lists of questions w/their answers about your searched subject. They allow 2 questions a day and cardio's from Cleveland Clinic answers them.
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