Topic: 2 quick questions, please...fever and thyroid.
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Good morning all,
I return for a follow-up LLMD apt. on Thurs, and have a couple of questions that I would like to address with my doc. However, I would like to know a bit more before I ask these specific questions.
While I do have Thyroid dysfunction and am currently on Armour, how does one know if the med is actually working? I mean besides looking at reduced symptoms or re-testing?
Also, I have recurring low-grade fevers almost daily, and at times, spiking several times daily.
While we believe this is due to a relapsing Borellia infection, how do I know that it isn't thyroid related?
And more specifically... since I am treating for both conditions, and the fever is not abating, are we dealing with something other than the above 2 causes?
Also, sorry... what can I do to reduce this fever besides treating those causes? I have been taking Advil daily at 800mg to help with this and to help with reducing inflammation, and it is not working.
Thanks so much in advance for any input you may wish to add.
Melanie
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Sammi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 110
posted
Hi Melanie. I am sorry you are having fevers. In my non-medical opinion, I don't think it is thyroid related. Hypothyroidism can cause low body temps until it is properly regulated.
How long have you been on Armour? What dose are you taking? When did you last have thyroid tesing done?
Do you think you could have Babesiosis? It can cause fevers for some people. I believe Lyme can also.
I wonder why the Advil is not helping with the fever. Do you think they could be from some kind of virus?
I hope you can determine what this is from. I am sorry I was not much help. Hopefully others will be.
Posts: 4682 | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Hey there my friend,
I have been taking Armour since 6-6-09, so not quite 2 months. My current dose of 15mg is actually half what was prescribed.
I ran into several problems taking full dose meds, so cut everything in half for awhile, including this. The testing was through Genova and was completed on 1-31, however, it took awhile to get my results and to start medicating.
Most numbers were within range, however the Reverse T3 was high. This result combined with many hyper symptoms, led my doc to prescribe the Armour to try and even things out a bit.
Granted, I also have low temps. In fact, I usually run low around 97 something. And am pretty constantly freezing, that is when not waking from a 'night sweat'. This is why the fluctuation is really not too fun.
Yes, I have 2 strains of Babs, and we are treating that as well. It was my understanding that Chronic Babs usually presents with an occasional afternoon fever? Mine have no schedule.
Who knows what else is happening in me? I've been diagnosed with 7 TBDs so, there could certainly be more going on, although I would be happy to stick with the seven, thank you.
I do have recurring rashes that appear to be viral in nature as well as some known viral issues. Colorado Tick Fever was certainly viral. Won't Advil work on virals?
You are always helpful, thank you!
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
Most LLMD's prefer Armour because it is more
readily absorbed that synthroid? I tend to
believe it may be possible but only if the cells
are working properly in the first place. If you
have a TSH that continually decreases and a FT4
that continually increases,while T3 remains
constant, You may say it is malabsorbtion if your
dosage has remained the same. But you cannot say
this unless you can chart it. While one cannot
quit taking it just because of this, I remain on
my 100 synthroid. As for the temp. I would let
him help you figure it out.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Thanks Lady of the Pines,
So you are saying that there really is no way to know if the thyroid meds are helping besides retesting?
The thing is, based on symptoms alone, there is no way for me to tell either if they are thyroid or TBD related. The overlap is too great. And I have symptoms of BOTH Hypo and Hyperthyroid.
Is it possible to swing back and forth with this? Does anyone else do this?
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
1. Maybe the thyroid is starting to function better with supplemental meds... and the higher body temps (to a normal persons normal) are a result of better over all functioning.
2. I'm not sure I believe that.. but if you do, ok.
3. As for taking the thyroid meds and seeing an improvement.... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Hey sugar,
1. the fevers have been ongoing for a long time, way before any meds were on board.
2. um, no.
3. what improvement? this is why I am asking, how do you know there IS thyroid specific improvement when thyroid specific symptoms are not changing?
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
The easy answer is...
Make the doc work for the $$ and get them to give you the answer.
I have no direct answers, only assumptions.
The other dose was NOT good... the doc needs to know that.
This dose makes you ok without severe ups/downs.... but is it enough to help those specific symptoms associated with thyroid, especially that overlap and that are hard to distinguish?
We don't know unless you just feel better in general.
OR.. unless you see better lab results.
But.. better lab results don't always match how you feel or indicate you ARE better.
6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other.
If you get it all figured out, you won't, but it is nice to watch you try so hard..
Then...
Will we ever know if treating the infections had anything to do with it or not?
If you want my suggestion... I KNOW you do. HA!
Stay on the dose you are on now.
It takes the body a while to regulate itself and you are so understandably wacky with all the stuff going on that saying what is doing what is hard enough without the thyroid question added in there.
OR.. your choice, pay for monthly labs to watch the numbers. If not in balance you can adjust the dose that way... but I don't really think that will be great.
Actually I didn't find that fun nor helpful to be honest. It was a pain and expensive to boot.
I'd retest in 4-6 months and unless major problems... leave it alone, or as is, for now.
BUT.. listen to the doc. That is what THEY get the big bucks for.
I work for ice cream... so my advise is not medically based.
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Melanie - Please see this thread on Brucella canis
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Alright Dr. TC... THAT was much more helpful than 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. (goofball) And I WILL fix the Advil dosing today. Much appreciated, as always... and I will pay my bill in October.
Hey Miss Ali, Nice to see you again. Thanks for the Brucella link, very interesting info you have gathered there!
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
"and I will pay my bill in October."
I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard that one!
posted
i'm very interested in what you doc has to say. i'm in a similar situation. i'm on armour. i was taking Mino, Zith, Rifampin and Plaq. for 3 months, low grade fevers coming/going thruought the day.
I went from freezing cold at times to boiling hot. My doc took me off abx and plaq a couple weeks ago, and within 3 days the fevers, nightsweats, chills etc were gone.
oh he also reduced my armour from 150mg a day to 120mg a day.
i went back on plaq as an experiment to see if side effects of that were causing the fevers etc. Nope.
so...like you, i'm wondering what the fevers, body disregulation stuff was from? a big fat herx? (babs? Bb?) does it mean i shld continue abx?
i wonder to how i can tell when i have the right armour dose. its been awhile since i had the TSH, T3, T4 test.
if you get any answers from your doc, please share!!
thanks!
Posts: 148 | From Berkshire County, MA | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
I will certainly share if we figure anything out, StJohn. I hope you can find some answers too.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
just don
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1129
posted
Dr. Don's turn,
I Rx a trip to Omaha.
Find a traveling companion fer a road trip.
Go east to Ohio to other needy lymie house.
Find some live stream.
Follow the "V".
Make sure you follow ALL doctors instructions,,,specially the hokey wanna be ones!!!
NO shortcuts allowed!!!
NOW dont cha just wish I had told you something worthwhile??
-------------------- just don Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Excuse me, Dr. Don... Oh Dr. Don....
You did a wonderful job with your advise above... but...
just don
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1129
posted
OOOOPS!
Invite best lymie friend from further east to join us,,,or better yet,go pick her Up
Is THAT better?? Doc TC???
-------------------- just don Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged |
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Oooo another road trip? I'm in! Especially if it involves 2 more from TX! How's your fall looking Doc Don? Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Looks like we've got a party coming up!
Just Don...
We know you are wonderful in little boats... but how do you like the BIG ones?
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
I'm so OK that I am headed out the door on errands! Finally!
Temperature is still all over the place, and the Advil feels stuck in my throat, but what the hay... other 'issues' have resolved for the moment, and I am going to make the best of this small window of opportunity.
Expect a pkg, again... finally. (sorry it isn't my entire bill, but only a down payment) Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey Melanie, My LLMD insists that persistent low grade fevers are most likely a sign of Babesia infection--and with so many strains now being identified that can't be reliably tested for, more and more LLMDs are treating for Babesia based solely on clinical Sx.
As for thyroid, I too have had thyroid problems since contracting Lyme in 2000. Unlike most people on thyroid meds, I am on cytomel, which supplements T3 instead of T4.
In light of your current dilemma, it sounds like more frequent bloodwork to track TSH, T3 and T4 might be a good idea.
My own experience has been that my thyroid tends to fluctuate a great deal. The same is true of other hormones that are ultimately controlled by the pituitary--our "master gland." My LLMD said at my last visit that my pituitary tends to "sputter." In other words, it is unpredictable. If you are in a similar situation, it could explain why you would have sx of both hypo- and hyperthyroidism.
I know it must be frustrating. I hope you get to the bottom of what is causing your troubles!!
Posts: 962 | From Charleston | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
MADDOG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18
posted
Hey Mel.I allways put ice in my watter bowl when I got a fever.
And dig a hole in the yard and stick my belly in the nice cool dirt.
Yep!! thats what you got to do!!!
MADDOG AAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Posts: 4083 | From Ohio | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Just wanted to add...after rereading your posts and realizing you already know you have multiple strains of Babs, I would definitely put that way up high on the list of possible causes of your fevers!
And to track your thyroid between blood tests, pay particular attention to pulse and BP. If your pulse starts to go up persistently, and your BP drops at the same time for no other apparent reason, you may be getting too much thyroid medication, and need to adjust your dosage. If your thyroid tends to fluctuate the way mine does, this can help you determine if your dosage is on track.
Posts: 962 | From Charleston | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
MADDOG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18
posted
Oh hey gang ,I just saw the rest of the post!!!
And follow the V !!!!!!!!
Everyone is welcome anytime to come float my river with me!!!
MADDOG
Posts: 4083 | From Ohio | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Bless your heart Maryland Mom! I'm so sorry you are experiencing this too. What an inconvenient mess, huh? Thank you for confirming what I have been suspecting re: the back and forth nature of a malfunctioning endocrine system. My Adrenal functioning is way whacked as well, so I do think this has to be part of the bigger picture.
The hope was that the small dose of Thyroid meds would help this too, along with a better eating plan, which is basically non-existent.
Because the adrenals are off the charts, my BP and heartrate are also currently very much increased overall... mimicking, again... many symptoms of hyperthyroid. I'm able to track my pulse on my own, but don't have a way to keep track of the BP. It will be interesting to see if this has changed at my next apt.
So, that throws another wrench into the picture. Is the motor, being in constant overdrive, causing the hyped-up temperatures too? If so, why isn't it consistent?
Why, for example, was my evening temp last night 97.2, but my waking temp this morning 99.6? And why do I feel as if my head is burning up and my face is flushed even when my temp runs at its lowest?
I keep thinking that if I continue asking these questions, eventually, someone somewhere will come up with some answers! Maybe my expectations are too great, I don't know. Perhaps it is too complicated at this point in time to ever be able to unravel what is causing which problem.
I'm feeling certain that I am driving 'some people' completely insane with my quests for answers.
MADDOG! hey dearheart. You have me smiling as usual. Thank you for those wonderful suggestions, you old dog you.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
I can certainly relate to how difficult it can be to sort through what problem may be causing what sx, with the the potential for one problem masking or exacerbating another....whew! It's enough to make your head spin, isn't it, trying to sort out what is going on with your body.
Unfortunately, a lot of trial and error is often necessary. Do you have a good endocrinologist? I really miss Dr. S in Kansas! These are the types of problems she was so good at puzzling through.
Wishing you better health, sweetie!
Posts: 962 | From Charleston | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[lol]](graemlins/lol.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic