I have been sick for 2 years and it has ruined my life. I think I finally have a diagnosis. I am 22 years old.
Posts: 73 | From ca, usa | Registered: May 2009
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feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
Are your lyme results IgM or IgG? yes, it does look like you have found an answer.
Feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
go to top of medical and print off lymetoo's post .... dr. c's explanation of western blot tests
yes, you have LYME! read what it says for the positive and IND nos.
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The other two, erlichia and babesia...looks like I have as well?
Posts: 73 | From ca, usa | Registered: May 2009
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Pinelady
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Member # 18524
posted
Bless your heart. Yes it is true.
Now to find you a great LLMD to get you well.
I was sick also for over 2 years. So I do know
where you have been and I know you will get better.
Prayers that your road is easy and you have family to help.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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Could those just mean exposure? that is not indicative of having the disease? anyone know?
Posts: 73 | From ca, usa | Registered: May 2009
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posted
It wouldn't make sense that it'd be just exposure unless you were previously treated for them and got better. By the way I got sick when I was 24, now I'm 27 so I know how you feel.
There should be an explanation on the test results about the titers. I remember the duncani titer levels though and mine were the same as yours and I also had a positive PCR FISH test which is a test that allows you to actually see the parasite through a microscope. So it would definitely seem like you have it.
Posts: 499 | From Indiana | Registered: Oct 2007
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Pinelady
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Member # 18524
posted
41kDa band is marker for flagella. Meaning you do have a bug with it.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I tested positive for Erlichia with a similar test result.
According to my regular family doc, it was just exposure and didn't need to be treated.
According to my ILADS doc, it definitely should be treated and could represent a chronic infection (especially since I was never treated to begin with).
Needless to say, I agreed with the ILADS doctor. And your Igenex looks pretty Lymey to me, although it is still a clinical diagnosis. However, with ehrlicia and babesia too, the odds strongly favor Lyme. My own results were sort of similar, 31+, 41+ and 39 IND -- positive for Igenex IGM.
Posts: 584 | From NY | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
I don't know if my Dr. from Kaiser will buy these test results. Any idea on what I can present to substantiate the results?
Posts: 73 | From ca, usa | Registered: May 2009
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posted
Well... you really need an LLMD anyway. Even if your regular doctor treats you for Lyme/Co-infections, they usually don't know how to treat properly.
But if trying to convince your current doctor, suggest common sense to him. Even if you completely disregard the WB results, and if you have symptoms of Lyme, then consider tick bite exposure as shown by ehrlicica/babesia. It'd make sense to consider Lyme as a diagnosis just based on the co-infection tests.
It'd be no different than walking into a doctor's office, pulling off several ticks and complaining of Lyme symptoms. You were bitten at some point by one or more sickly ticks.
Posts: 584 | From NY | Registered: Feb 2009
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I was told because I had 3 bands and not 5 I don't have Lyme. I was told that the antibodies for Babesia and Erlichia were non specific and anyone could have them. He said if I had disease the antibodies would have shown up at a higher dilution, 4x what I have. He said igenex was a money making scheme.
He diagnosed me with depression and anxiety disorder.
I was in Minnesota, literally in the woods, in the river, etc. during summer with my shirt off. Why is it so far fetched to believe Lyme exists??????
I have every major symptom of every bug and coinfection. My life has been shattered. I am not even depressed, but motivated about my business, family life, etc..
What gives?
Posts: 73 | From ca, usa | Registered: May 2009
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sutherngrl
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Member # 16270
posted
Unfortunately your story is oh so common. They love to use the anxiety/depression diagnosis. Its easy money for them. They don't have to think! It's like they got all thunk out in medical school or something.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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Hoosiers51
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posted
I think band 31 can also be from a virus.
Igenex offers a band 31 confirmation test....I would call the lab and ask, but you may want to get that done, since 41 and 58 can also be caused by other things besides just Lyme.
To me, it doesn't look like enough info to confirm Lyme yet by bloodwork. The Lyme diagnosis can also be made clinically (based on symptoms and history), by a qualified physician. Sometimes the labs do not come back positive on the first try....
Perhaps after provoking with antibiotics, more bands would come back positive. I'd think about that band 31 confirmation test.
I don't know if 1:40 and 1:80 are considered positive, because I never had those done through Igenex, so I can only offer insight on the Western Blot.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Bear in mind that "not very strong reaction" is the expected result for someone infected two years ago; the test reaction goes down over time as the bacteria take up residence outside the bloodstream.
I don't know if you do or don't have LD. I can say that the test results are consistent with someone infected with one or more tick borne infections two years ago. I can say for sure you need to find another doctor.
David
Posts: 98 | From Maine | Registered: Jul 2009
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gemofnj
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Member # 15551
posted
here is the definitions for the lyme bands: #31 is very specific for lyme, and of course also #41.
I was considered positive with bands #23 & #41.
18: An outer surface protein.
22: Possibly a variant of outer surface protein C.
23-25: Outer surface protein C (osp C).
28: An outer surface protein.
30: Possibly a variant of outer surface protein A.
31: Outer surface protein A (osp A).
34: Outer surface protein B (osp B).
37: Unknown, but it is in the medical literature that it is a borrelia-associated antibody. Other labs consider it significant.
39: Unknown what this antigen is, but based on research at the National Institute of Health (NIH), other Borrelia (such as Borrelia recurrentis that causes relapsing fever), do not even have the genetics to code for the 39 kDa antigen, much less produce it. It is the most specific antibody for borreliosis of all.
41: Flagella or tail. This is how Borrelia burgdorferi moves around, by moving the flagella. Many bacteria have flagella. This is the most common borreliosis antibody.
45: Heat shock protein. This helps the bacteria survive fever. The only bacteria in the world that does not have heat shock proteins is Treponema pallidum, the cause of syphilis.
58: Heat shock protein.
66: Heat shock protein. This is the second most common borrelia antibody.
73: Heat shock protein.
83: This is the DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi. It is the same thing as the 93, based upon the medical literature. But laboratories vary in assigning significance to the 83 versus the 93.
93: The DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi.
In my clinical experience, if a patient has symptoms suspicious for borreliosis, and has one or more of the following bands, there is a very high probability the patient has borreliosis.
These bands are 18, 22, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 37, 39, 41, 83, and 93.
Posts: 1127 | From atlantic city, nj | Registered: May 2008
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Hoosiers51
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posted
I am confused as to why Igenex offers a band 31 confirmation test if 31 is "very specific" for Lyme, without the confirmation test?
41 is not Lyme-specific. A gum bacteria can cause it as well as Lyme, and possibly other things too. So, if at one point in your life, you got a cut on your gum, and some of this mouth bacteria entered your bloodstream, you could show IgG positive for band 41.
Dr. C is saying that if a patient has the symptoms, and has band 41, that there is a high probability the patient has Lyme (borreliosis). I think that would be tricky to infer though, because say your Lyme symptoms are very non-specific....like just fatigue and brain fog. I have no idea how one would know, honestly.
I think in that case it is tricky and you just need to gauge your response to antibiotics. That is why clinical diagnosis is so important.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Based on our tracking, as well as input from our client physicians and our clinical consultant, the initial Panel to order for Lyme disease is the IGeneX Panel 6050. This panel includes the IFA, IgM and IgG Western Blots and PCRs for Borrelia burgdorferi. The IFA is a general Lyme disease screen.� �The Western Blots are to determine which antibodies the patient is making. The Western Blot is 96% specific. Since some patients do not make antibodies , the Lyme Whole Blood PCR for DNA (#456) and the Lyme Serum PCR for DNA (#453) is included.
quote:IGeneX also now offers a new 30-31kDa Confirmation IgG and IgM test. If results from the initial Western Blot are positive for bands 30 or 31, it is possible that these could be due to cross-reactivity with several different types of viruses. In this confirmatory test, highly specific recombinant antigens are used to validate that the positive result is not due to cross-reaction with viruses. If ONLY band 31 is positive and no other specific bands are positive, it is recommended to have tests #488 and #489 31 kDa epitope Igm/Igg to make sure borrelia hasn't crossed reacted with several possible viruses....but AGAIN ONLY IF BAND 31 ALONE is positive.
Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
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I was told because I had 3 bands and not 5 I don't have Lyme. I was told that the antibodies for Babesia and Erlichia were non specific and anyone could have them. He said if I had disease the antibodies would have shown up at a higher dilution, 4x what I have. He said igenex was a money making scheme.
He diagnosed me with depression and anxiety disorder.
What an A$$!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
There are some virus problems that could interfere with band 31, such as EBV. A good doctor could check you for these viruses via blood work beforehand too.
But a good doctor wouldn't rely solely on blood tests to diagnose Lyme anyway. The tests are known to be unreliable and give a lot of false negatives.
The ehrlicia and babesia antibodies would show past exposure. I never heard of them being nonspecific and that anyone could have them before. I mean, why would anyone have them if they weren't exposed to the diseases?
Low levels could mean they aren't currently active, but they would demonstrate past tick bite exposure.
Get a new doctor.
Posts: 584 | From NY | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Hoosiers, I have read articles that having 2 bands show up on the WB can be diagnosed as Lyme with 92-97% accuracy. But now that doesn't make sense if 2 bands such as 31 and 41 can cross react.
1:40 and 1:80 are considered positive with Igenex. It means starting infection or killing it.
I have a blood smear with rings in it that look like Babesia. I also have many of the symptoms.
Energetically I test for babesia, erlichia, bartonella and lyme.
I have had tests in the past. This time around I took azithromycin for 2 months, and then also took 3 weeks of high dose HH. Some of this stuff became positive after... why is that? Last time only band 41 was positive, now I have positive bands on both IgG and IgM.
Posts: 73 | From ca, usa | Registered: May 2009
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
bigdreams,
Okay...that info you just gave is helpful.
I'm not sure what that means, the 92-97% accuracy thing. Does that mean ANY two bands? Or any two of the lyme-specfic bands? Hmmm.
Okay, so if those values for erlichia and b. duncani are considered Igenex positive, that does make it seem more likely to me that the bands on your Western Blot could be caused by Lyme.
You can get erlichia, and probably babesia, without Lyme, but if I had those infections and symptoms of Lyme, I would treat it all. For sure.
It is too bad none of the bands that "seal the deal" showed up positive. So I would follow the advice of those here and definitely see an LLMD. If he/she makes a clnical diagnosis and you are comfortable with that, you may not retest the Western Blot...but it might be good to retest a little after more treatment. Sometimes more bands will show up later in treatment, when the body recognizes the disease more.
I thought you had said you only had the bands positive on the IgG. The IgM ones would show your immune system was recently activated by whatever causes those bands (so Lyme, or a virus), as opposed to past exposure, which is IgG.
So maybe with even more treatment, even more bands would show.
If you have rings that looked like babesia, that is very important. Was it from Fry labs? What lab did that test?
All of these diseases are ideally treated based on symptoms, and clues, even if the bloodwork is negative, since the bloodwork can be finicky. I hope treatment will bring you success, and that you find answers. This website is a great place for info, though you can't believe everything you hear, as always. Good luck.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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HH capsules make some of my symptoms go away like night and day...
Will just assume I have lyme based on symptoms, that factor and other positive tests. LLMD says I have lyme.
Posts: 73 | From ca, usa | Registered: May 2009
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Us ole' Lymies sure have lots of anxiety & depression, huh? I'm so glsd Mr. IDSA doc clarified that for my self? I always wondered what was wrong with us. Guess I should've gone to med school for 12-14 yrs. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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