posted
It was on Sept 16th that I started my 30 days of antibiotics. I can say that I think I am having success. I am thinking more clearly and 90% of the arthritis pain has dissipated.
Along with the antibiotics I am taking Andrographis and oregano oil In the afternoon I drink dandelion root tea and milk thistle tea.
I have information about Andrographis, its use in Lyme, use in other medical purposes and the testing. The pages I have were given to me from my local health food store and I don't know what book they are from.
Posts: 11 | From pennsylvania | Registered: Sep 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Hi. Welcome. Hope you are finding what you need here. It's great that you are doing well after 3 weeks now.
Glad to see that you are getting treatment and sorry to rush into all this, however . . .
Your "30 days of antibiotics"? So they run out on the 15th?
Are you being treated by a LLMD? Are you sure? Lyme treatment is usually for months. And it's a combination treatment, so be sure you have a good lyme literate doctor who is ILADS educated. More about that in the links below.
Are you also taking good probiotic? Take that at a different time from the abx (antibiotic).
I suggest the milk thistle capsules - 3 x day - tea does not give you enough although you can figure the tea into the equation.
Andrographis? See Buhner's book. Great chapter in there. I use it and it's very good. It will make you more tired and also increase urination - be sure to drink lots of water with this throughout the day.
I'm not sure where you are will all this, so pardon me for too many links. You can select what seems the best help to you now and save the rest for later.
===============
LLMD (Lyme Literate Medical Doctor)
LL ND (Lyme Literate Naturopathic Doctor)
The "LL" implies that they are ILADS-members or "ILADS-educated" in having a good familiarity with ILADS research and guidelines, even if they have their own approach that may differ somewhat, they know all aobut lyme and how it works - and also about coinfections.
Many LL ND are also ILADS member. Some use combination antibiotics and supplements.
Some LLMD use supplements as well to compliment the antibiotics.
==============
This explains WHY you need an ILADS doctor (now, it would be fantastic if your doctor can work with you for backup and support but you need a real expert):
CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR" -(author's details at link)
As two medical societies battle over its diagnosis and treatment, Lyme disease remains a frequently missed illness. Here is how to spot and treat it.
Excerpts:
Meet the players
The opponents in the battle over the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease are the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA), the largest national organization of general infectious disease specialists, (and)
and the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS), an organization made up of physicians from many specialties. ( www.ilads.org )
ILADS, by contrast, asserts that the illness is much more common than reported, underdiagnosed, easier to contract than previously believed, difficult to diagnose through commercial blood tests, and difficult to treat, (especially)
especially when treatment is delayed because of commonly encountered diagnostic difficulties ( http://www.ilads.org/guidelines.html - Accessed April 6, 2007).
. . .
" . . .To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . ."
`` . . .Patients with Lyme disease almost always have negative results on standard blood screening tests and have no remarkable findings on physical exam, so they are frequently referred to mental-health professionals for evaluation.
"...If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided..."
. . . * Clinicians do not realize that the CDC has gone on record as saying the commercial Lyme tests are designed for epidemiologic rather than diagnostic purposes, and a diagnosis should be based on clinical presentation rather than serologic results.
- Full article at link above, containing MUCH more detailed information.
-===
Co-infections (other tick-borne infections or TBD - tick-borne disease) are not discussed in this article due to space limits. Still, any LLMD you would see would know how to assess/treat if others are present.
-
-===========
TESTING
You should also be evaluated for coinfections. Not all tests are great in that regard, either, but a good LLMD can evaluate you and then guide you in testing. One of the top labs is:
"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.
Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it.
But anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM."
The International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS) provides a forum for health science professionals to share their wealth of knowledge regarding the management of Lyme and associated diseases.
In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:
I would encourage EVERY person who has received a lyme diagnosis to get the following tests. . . .
- at link.
=================
The testimony from the IDSA Lyme Guideline review panel, July 30, 2009 - Some ILADS doctors presented research in hopes of changing the IDSA guidelines.
ANDROGRAPHIS -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- See page 20 and page 31 regarding exercise. I was looking back over your previous posts and see that you had a question about that. Aerobic exercise is to wait until you are nearly recovered - but non-aerobic movement is very helpful and encouraged.
posted
Make sure you treat a few months after your symptoms are gone. If you come off too soon lyme will return.
Posts: 323 | From Michigan | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Andrographis making a person tired. I thought so and it is good to hear that what I was feeling is correct.
Although I wouldn't call my Dr. a traditional LLMD, she is two steps ahead of your usual GP.
1. She knew that tests are not accurate and she likes to use a clinical diagnosis.
2. She knows the CDC 14 days for antibiotics is too short.
3. Even before I was going to tell her that I take probiotics when I take antibiotics, she said it to me.
What happens at the end of thirty days. I'll take it from there but the studies I've read show that Andrographis does kill spirochetes.
I'm not at all big on taking antibiotics and will go with the Andrographis over antibiotics.
A short time ago I couldn't get on my treadmill. Last night I did 20 minutes at 3.2 MPH. I see a very short time I will be back on the tennis court playing my usual 2 hours of hard singles tennis.
Thanks for all the info.
Posts: 11 | From pennsylvania | Registered: Sep 2009
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
Good for you! I have been on antibiotics for 15 months and no change.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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