posted
I had a long conversation with one one of the guys here on LymeNet. I understood everything he said but was un aware of the following.
With lyme, two parts to our immume system are actually fiipped. One is over stimulated and needs calming. The other is underactive and needs support.
NEVER BOOST. NEVER BOOST ANYTHING but gentle support ONLY of the broken part.
Again Im under the treatment plan of a holistic Dr. who should understand this . He treats Lyme and CFS more than any thing.
Can someone explain the mechanics of this flipped immune so I can discuss it with him in tec. terms Again Thanks. J
Posts: 45 | From Branfort Ct. | Registered: Oct 2009
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Th1 -one part. th2 (humoral responce) -another part. Th2 responsible for killing stuff in blood and fluid . th1 responsible for killing infected and cancerous cells
I did not find definite proof for either th1 or th2 imbalance in lyme. the best indicator would be cytokine tests but I did not find the doctor yet who would order proper tests (since none of them knows much about immune system)
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
Don't know if this means much, but I treated for LD for 1 full year with no improvement. Then decided to take a turn in another direction.....out of desperation to get well.
Decided to consider an immunological disorder as a possibility. I won't go into all the details that led up to that. Long story!
Treated with 3 weeks of high dose steroids. I know, a no, no with LD; then used plaquenil, which is also used for autoimmune disorders. After a month of so of plaquenil, all heck broke loose. Started having crazy horrible neuro type symptoms. I am thinking maybe due to the steroids and or plaquenil.
I immediately started back on Lyme treatment, and that is when I began to see improvements with antibiotic treatment.
Now a possible theory, not scientific, just an idea in my head......is that my body was in over drive, the steroids slowed something down that needed to slow down. They also had a negative effect on the LD; but once I started back on antibiotics, almost 4 months now, I started to improve.
Very weird! But somehow the steroids may have been needed, just temporarily, at least in my case.
Or this could just be a bunch of nonesense.
I am not recommending steroids at all for ppl with LD and it may all be a coincidence in my case; but I feel that something good came out of the use of short term steroids for me.
I believe that our bodies can go into an autoimmune state when fighting off LD and that may be working against us. So slowing it down may be a key.
I am not scientific. This is just my experience and wanted to share.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-- Your doctor may not have mentioned it because if he is treating you properly and if you follow his plan, all might be fine. Most doctors don't go into the detail of the the Th1 and Th2 changes that lyme patients experience when the infection turns chronic. It just goes with the territory.
Patients have enough to absorb at appointments and this aspect is likely considered without a long explanation that could take valuable time from the purpose of the appointment.
However, where some patients can have bad results is if they decide, on their own, to BOOST their immune system with some supplement that is not intended for chronic lyme patients - or specifically for them.
By trying to boost the immune system - or energy - relapse can be severe if not done correctly. The immune system is not the only thing presenting with dysfunction. The entire adrenal system is also altered. So, taking stuff to boost energy can have quite a bad effect unless done with knowledge and care. And on and on.
Some good intentioned (non-LL) doctors often will try to give patients a boost, not understanding the delicate nature of a lyme patient's state. That is why it's so important to have any MD or ND be fully LL and ILADS-educated. Then they know all this. And they'd also know the nature of the borrelia spirochete, etc., even if their approach differs a bit.
Your doctor may be quite fine - he just may not have told you everything he knows. If he has had good success with lyme patients, that says a lot.
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Be sure to search for past threads on this topic here at LymeNet:
Start with a search of ``Th1'' in the subject line, in medical forum. You will find links to seven threads:
Th1/Th2 - 28 October, 2008
Th1 Inflamation - 16 February, 2008
Th1/Th2 Testing - 21 January, 2008
What's best for balancing Th1 & Th2 & inflamamtion? - 13 April, 2007
Th1 vs. Th2 -- 09 November, 2006
On Th1 Proinflammatory Responses - 14 April, 2006
TH1 or TH2 dominant? - 22 March, 2006
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You can also do a search through the LDA or ILADS of what LLMDs have written about it in professional articles, specifically of the unique way the Th1 and the Th2 are affected (in a reverse sort of way) for chronic lyme patients.
Some of the past ILADS conferences have this explained on the DVD of their lectures. -
[ 10-16-2009, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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