posted
That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
-------------------- ---Beautiful Disaster--- IgeneX WB: IgM: 18+, 31+, 41+, 58+, IgG: 31++, 39 IND, 41++, 31kda Epitope Test: Positive Labcorp: IgM: 23+, 41+ No LLMD due to money since Sept 2008. Was on Doxy, I.V. Rocephin (30 days), Flagyl. Also dx with Bartonella. Posts: 139 | From United States, East Coast-ish | Registered: Aug 2009
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Can you share your references for this info? I'm particularly curious about the "18 Lyme, Lyme, Lyme" because that is my most-commonly observed band (that and 41).
You can PM if you like.
Thanks for all the fantastic info you share.
Allie
Posts: 300 | From Northeast | Registered: Dec 2006
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He states that: "Cross reactivity studies were done with syphilis. This does occur. How many syphilis patients have I seen in suburban practice in the last 20 years? One. Syphilis is easy to rule out."
He also states: "What about other spriochetal diseases? Yes. It can cross react with leptospirosis, rat bite fever and relapsing fever."
What he also says about dental spirochetes: "Current papers like to say that the 41band cross may reacts with dental spirochetes. Does the evidence support this? The answer is no. The primary dental spirochete is Treponema denticola. It is present in patients with periodontal infections. It is not particularly antigenic since it is protected within biofilms. The DNA structure of this spirochete has been worked out. It is very different from Borrelia. The 41 band reacts to a flagellum protein of Borrelia, the Lyme spirochete. The flagellum proteins of T. denticola are quite different from those of Borrelia. They are antigenically different. This was tough to find, but here it is: The WB or immunoblot bands that are specific for T. denticola flagelin proteints are: 38kd, 53kd and 72kd. In fact, the best known dental spirochete does not react with the 41 band."
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
TC, you're forgetting Timaca's evidence that 23-25 can be EBV virus. BIG one to consider and can highly discredit my Igenex findings.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
Seek have you been tested for EBV? I have band 23, but I tested negative for EBV.
And what does it mean "early lyme"? I was ill for over 3 years before ever getting band 23.
TC, where did this info come from?
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
IGeneX says viral bands only show on IgM. Not on IgG.
The study Timaca referred to linked to a letter in a German medical journal. And it states very specfically that they are only considering "early Lyme borreliosis (ELB) (duration of a few weeks to 3 months)".
EBV control group; "infectious mononucleosis" CMV control group: "acute cytomegalovirus"
Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Wow, Ilove this site more to learn everyday. Hey Tincup can you share your source?
Great post disturbed me. Now got more proof that my Western Blot 41kda band isn't related to dental spirochetes.
KA
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Yep, and that's my most positive IgM only band ChuckG. I have very high EBV titers...other bands could hypothetically be viral.
I kind of hung my hat on the 23-25 band thinking it's good as gold according to Dr. C and other sources of data. I know it's a longshot and Lyme is a clinical diagnosis for most here, but it's nice to have a sure thing once in a while. Know what I mean?
quote:Originally posted by ChuckG: IGeneX says viral bands only show on IgM. Not on IgG.
The study Timaca referred to linked to a letter in a German medical journal. And it states very specfically that they are only considering "early Lyme borreliosis (ELB) (duration of a few weeks to 3 months)".
EBV control group; "infectious mononucleosis" CMV control group: "acute cytomegalovirus"
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
Well according to the posted info I am everything but early lyme and erlichia. Who is the source?
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
TC can we have the resources for these discoveries please. I want to see these scientifically proven in peer reviewed literature. Danka!
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
disturbed,
please break up you medical info on 41 for us neuro folks so can read it, and take the broken up version and post on lymetoo's dr. c's western blot explanation post at top of medical.
we thank you; we'd like to be able to comprehend also.
yes, tc; you've got our attention, and where are your sources for this NEW, SHOCKING info on nos.
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-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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So band 23 is early Lyme AND CNS Lyme? I guess I would have considered them to be different things, I would consider early Lyme to not have CNS involvement. But, I have read that it can get into the CSF within weeks. I guess that explains it?
I think we are all wondering where this info came from. If you can't get us a name? Can you give us a hint so we know how credible it may be?
-------------------- ---Beautiful Disaster--- IgeneX WB: IgM: 18+, 31+, 41+, 58+, IgG: 31++, 39 IND, 41++, 31kda Epitope Test: Positive Labcorp: IgM: 23+, 41+ No LLMD due to money since Sept 2008. Was on Doxy, I.V. Rocephin (30 days), Flagyl. Also dx with Bartonella. Posts: 139 | From United States, East Coast-ish | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: [QB] Yep, and that's my most positive IgM only band ChuckG. I have very high EBV titers...other bands could hypothetically be viral.
Just to clarify (at least based on what Igenex told me), only a positive EBV IgM will affect the WB IgM. So if you tested WB IgM positive, yet your EBV IgM is negative, there would be no interference.
EBV IgG is common, at around 95% of all adults having it, and that shouldn't affect the WB IgM results.
Posts: 584 | From NY | Registered: Feb 2009
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I've got every one of those.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
tincup, time to show up again .... you left quite a cliff hanger for us all.
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Txing since 2006 and STILL throwing up band 23 IGM on Quest WB. ????????????
Was band 39 positive & MUCH more "neuro" than "joint". I never had the swollen knee thing.
I know, I know.....I'm a freak. I always used to like being different, now it's just annoying.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Tincup, Keeping this up so we can get an answer.
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Very interesting! I have most of these too and the explanation makes sense as well. Thanks for posting this.
-------------------- The advice I give, should not be considered medical advice. My opinion comes from years of research and experience. Posts: 233 | From Somewhere | Registered: Sep 2009
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-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
i was going to email her at home, but my system won't let me send a regular email; go figure!!
she won't answer sunday; no lyme activisties on that day...
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Just got back after 5 days of Lyme meetings and attending the LDA/ILADS conferences in DC area.
I am VERY tired, but bottom line....
Like I said above.. "it simply means this trend (bands) is being noted by those paying attention."
"those paying attention" are several LLMD's that I trust whose names are not necessary because it is NOT official- just something to consider.
There is no study prove it, it isn't absolute, nor are you to bet the farm on it.
I just thought it was interesting and thought you might too.
I know nothing more than what I've already posted.
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