i have a question which nobody could answer me until yet.
i am from germany and nobody could answer my question in the german lyme forum.
so sometimes.. especially before my first ABx i had a grey / dirty skincolor.
Now i have done 6 month of ABx and doing better than on the beginning.. the grey / dirty skin now isn't there anymore permanently.. it only appears sometimes.. which bug could this cause??
i have borrelia and bartonella.. thats for sure.. could this cause bartonella??
the strange color of my skin began with my illness.. before i had good and healthy golden/brown skin.
greetz
Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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blinkie
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Member # 14470
posted
well, I was sick for years with just lyme, then bit again and got babs and bart.
Within a year, I was VERY ill and people were telling me my skin looked gray. After I started treatment, it returned to normal.
I think that babs kills red blood cells and all infections starve your body of nutrients and oxygen. My guess is that this cindition is likely just from being ill but could in fact, be linked to babesia.
Posts: 1104 | From N.California | Registered: Jan 2008
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i really dont know if i have babs or not, i dont know how to find out which bug it is..
borrelia and barts are testet pos. babesia was negative... there are some symptoms which could be from babesia.. for example my anorexia.. but it could be cause of barts or borrelia too... how to figure out which bug it causes?
blinkie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
treat it anyway, that sometimes is the only way to know for sure.
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Pinelady
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posted
I have read about this condition but for the life of me can't put a name on it. Keep searching, I do believe it is a rare one, maybe even congo related. I am with Blinkie, treat them all. Just not all at the same time.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
some other suggestions?
Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Anything that messes with red blood cells? or heart problem or intracellular ie blood cells germs inside
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
up.. are there some more people... i treated now for 3 months my barts with levaquin.. 1 week ago started with rifampin (which is hitting me hard..) today my girlfriend said too.. "you have dark eyes (raccoon) and a dirty skin color"... i want to get rid of this which is killin me slowly i started the levaquin right away with bactrim ds (twice daily) and pulsed artemisin for babesia.. so i treatet both.. and nothin happend in 3 mo'S?
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- There appear to be many reasons for grey skin. I hope your doctor does further testing.
Celiac is not mentioned (inability to process gluten from wheat, rye, barley, spelt) . . . but the malabsorption of nutrients is listed as one cause (#8. Whipple's)
I think you should be assessed for celiac. Most LLMDs have their patients on gluten-free diets, anyway as lyme really messes up the stomach's ability to digest food, etc.
1. Cardiac tamponade is the compression of the heart that occurs when blood or fluid builds up in the space between . . . .
2. Leishmaniasis is a parasitic disease spread by the bite of the sandfly. [poster's interjection: if one parasitic infection can cause this, it would seem that others might, too. And you should probably be assessed for Leishmaniasis.]
. . .
6. Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) is one of the most common lung diseases. It makes it difficult
7. Emphysema is a chronic respiratory disease where there is over-inflation of the air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs . . . .
8. Whipple's disease is a rare condition that prevents the intestine from properly absorbing nutrients.
Exposure to too much or the wrong kind of silver? Some home-made colloidal silver has caused this from using the wrong kind of water as the source, too.
Argyria (ISV from Greek: ἄργυρος argyros silver + -ia) is a condition caused by improper exposure to chemical forms of the element silver, silver dust, or silver compounds.[1]
The most dramatic symptom of argyria is that the skin becomes blue or bluish-grey colored. Argyria may be found as generalized argyria or local argyria.
. . .
Chronic intake of silver products can result in an accumulation of silver or silver sulfide particles in the skin. As in photography (where silver is used due to its reactivity with light), these particles in the skin darken with exposure to sunlight, resulting in a blue or gray discoloration of the skin. This condition is known as argyria.
People with argyria develop blue-grey skin, usually through ingesting significant amounts of colloidal silver, but sometimes on areas that have been treated topically.
===========================
As blue can include many different hues or ranges of tone - including greys - the link below may shine some light. But, even if this is not involved, it could be something similar to explore regarding a deficient enzyme process, or possible liver or kidney condition.
Methemoglobinemia is a disorder characterized by the presence of a higher than normal level of methemoglobin (metHb) in the blood. Methemoglobin is a form of hemoglobin that does not bind oxygen. When its concentration is elevated in red blood cells, tissue hypoxia can occur.
. . . Methemoglobinemia can also be acquired.[1]
The protective enzyme systems normally present in red blood cells maintain methemoglobin levels at less than one percent of the total hemoglobin in healthy people.
Exposure to exogenous oxidizing drugs and their metabolites (such as benzocaine, dapsone and nitrates) may accelerate the rate of formation of methemoglobin up to one-thousandfold, overwhelming the protective enzyme systems and acutely increasing methemoglobin levels.
Other classical drug causes of methemoglobinaemia include antibiotics (trimethoprim, sulphonamides and dapsone[2]), local anaesthetics (especially articaine and prilocaine[3]), and others such as aniline dyes, metoclopramide, chlorates and bromates. Ingestion of compounds containing nitrates (such as the patina chemical bismuth nitrate) can also cause methemoglobinemia. . . .
[Kentucy] Blue Fugates (family) . . .
. . . The 'blue men of Lurgan' were a pair of Lurgan men suffering from what was described as 'familial idiopathic methaemoglobinaemia' who were treated by Dr. James Deeny in 1942.
Deeny, who would later become the Chief Medical Officer of the Republic of Ireland, prescribed a course of ascorbic acid and sodium bicarbonate.
In case one, by the eighth day of treatment there was a marked change in appearance and by the twelfth day of treatment the patient's complexion was normal. In case two, the patient's complexion reached normality over a month-long duration of treatment.[8]
==============
Above are just a few results of a basic search. Much more research needs to be done. Apparently, there are many things to consider.
However, as you say: `` . . . isn't there anymore permanently.. it only appears sometimes. . . .'' it seems you are on the right track. It may take longer as lyme does take a long time to adequately treat. Still, you might consider some of the detail above - especially a gluten-free diet.
Good luck. ===========
Afterthought: Porphyria. There are over 11 different kinds. Many lyme patients can have an acquired sort of secondary porphyria. I'll be back later with a set of links about that. In the meantime, do a cross-reference at Google and PubMed:
porphyria "grey skin"
porphyria "gray skin" -
[ 03-20-2010, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Are you getting enough color in your diet? Lots of vegetables, good low-sugar fruits like dark berries and tart apples?
The more color you can take in, the higher the antioxidant levels and your own color might just take a shine to all that. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
hey, thanks 4 response.. i have nothin at all u posted.. i checked it too on "wrongdiagnosis". I dont eat much sugar.. i try to eat veggies and fruits every day. i take milk shakes (made of fresh milk, joghurt and bananas) etc... im taking multivitamine.. etc.
in my oppinion a bug is causing this.. not my body itself.. but i cant find anything which is related to grey skin, bartonella and babesia.. Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
daniel, what were the hemoglobin and hemotocrit readings on your blood draws, before starting abx & after the grey skin color? This will likely give you an idea if it's RBC related.
Could also be virus or parasite related.
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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i checked it 5 sec ago... no changes at all. really .. i thought i would be healthy again last year.. today im crying again all the time.. im searching since 1 week again because my skin color improved just a little bit.. but i cant find anything.. i have raccoon eyes too .. many people here say its from barts?!
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ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
daniel, it could be Bart, it could be anything... Just too hard to be accurate and we're not physicians.
Have you been tested for Bart? If so, what results? I was fortunate not to have Bart, as I hear it's one of the roughest of infections.
I'd insist the doc test you and ask if you can back off the abx a bit, or find out if doc has alternate plan for occurrances such as this. Wish I could be of more help.
Do the best you can and let us know.
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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i was testes POS for lyme and bart henseale. my babs tests always were negative....
i thought, that bart treatment will take maybe 3 months?! but like i said.. im treating since 3 months for bart but im not symptom free at all. especially the tinnitus and my memory are making me depressive because this symptoms not improving..
i have no joint pain at all.. only my right foot is hurting when i walk after the 3 months of levaquin.. and my other "body" symptoms are: - anorexia (im only hungry 2 times a day.. in the morning and then 6 hours later after i ate something 4 breakfast) - at the beginning when i got sick abdominal pain under my liver - muscletwitching and hurting but lowgrade - raccoon eyes - light sweating during the day.. (NO sweating at night.. not a little bit) - loss of weight (on the beginning of the disease i had a VERY STRONG anorexia.. i couldnt eat anything and lost 10 kg, now i gained 4-5kg back)
the most symptoms are cognitive issues.. - memory problems - problems to concentrate - since 4 months i dream EVERY night.. often dream with no sense.. but sometimes.. maybe 1 or 2 times in a months violent dreams too.. that someone will kill me - vertigo - tinnitus (very annoying) - muchos volantes - headaches (especially in front and on top of head, my neck isnt hurting at all.. sometimes a little bit, i would say on a scale from 1 to 10 (worst) it would be a 2) - my psych is changing - trouble listen to other people when they explain something.. even when i talk to my girlfriend its hard to concentrate.. - when i try to do some stuff for university.. my head start aching immidiatly.. when i take a break and watch tv.. the headaches disappear.. so i would say.. when im starting to work with my brain.. it starts tu hurt/ache.
how long would u treat bart?? i would like to know the range.. 3 months.. 6 months.. 1 year? etc..
greetz from germany
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Pocono Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5939
posted
Daniel,
I know you said you were negative for Babs but your symptoms sound like it to me.
I have/had the same symptoms and only relief was from Larium followed by Primaquine although it didn't last
and currently Riamet/Coertem.
Mepron, Malarone, Alinia and more didn't touch it. My memory has improved, vertigo, vivid dreams(horrific at times) have just about vanished, and yes the raccoon eyes with the onset of allergies.?
Never bothered by allergies before. Called allergic shiners.
The right sided (liver) pain is also a part of it.
-------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:9-11
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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i will try to talk to my llmd.. because im sick of this..
like i said, i dont know if a have babs or not.. because i didnt have breathing diffilcuties.. no night sweats.. fatigue isnt that bad (i sleep 8 hours and make my day).
isnt bactrim DS with artemisin working for babs? im taking it since 3 months
Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
up
Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
"borrelia and barts are testet pos. babesia was negative... there are some symptoms which could be from babesia.. for example my anorexia.. but it could be cause of barts or borrelia too... how to figure out which bug it causes?"
Anorexia is zinc related. Check with German doctors www.hputest.de also known as KPU. Book by Kamsteeg.
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