posted
I know this has been discussed before but I felt like posting this for anyone who is considering trying marijuana.
Befre lyme I was against it and now I am certainly for it. If I am herxing bad or very depressed, marijuana has become my drug of choice. It has also helps my body pain tremendously when needed. I believe marijuana has far less side effects and potential risk than most all oral drugs.
Watch the documentary "The Union - The Business Behind Getting High".
Posts: 124 | From Toronto | Registered: Aug 2009
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gwb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7273
posted
I've often wondered how it would work for herxes and lyme pain.
Is it legally prescribed by doctors in Canada or do you have to buy it on the streets?
Not sure how I feel about it but glad you are getting relief from it.
posted
Nice--from my experiences with lyme you want an Indica dominant strain high in CBD. Sativas + inflammatory disease can be anxiety hell, but indicas seem to work very well.
It's hit or miss unless you know which strain you are getting imo, neuropathy either goes through the roof (sativa) or is subdued (indica).
Posts: 501 | From Cleveland Ohio | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
I had no appetite, weight loss, pain, and insomnia. Mj would have fixed all of those specific issues. I chose not to because I have kids in the house and I didn't want to introduce it to our family as being okay. But, yes, I think it would help with issues.
As a word of warning though, I do know someone addicted to it from smoking it at night only for sleep/back pain. He said he would not be able to stop it without rehab.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Addicted to marijuana? That's insane. Back in the day, I smoked every day, several times a day, for years. I quit when I wanted to quit. Cold turkey. What about it was addictive? Why would this person need rehab? Cigarettes are farrrrr more addicting. I had no hard time at all. Pain pills are far more addictive. IMHO. Most people do not get "addicted" to marijuana. Usually when people go to rehab, it is to safely get off serious drugs, pain killers, or alcohol. It's to provide a safe environment to detox and also get some therapy in the process.
I'm sure most of us take some form of medication (besides abx) and most of it IS way harder to get off of than smoking pot. You don't get physically "sick" when you stop smoking pot. I feel HORRIBLE when I try to get off pain pills on my own, or if I have a horrid month of pain, and then run out 5-7 days early because I had to take more than rxd. Marijuana is the least harmful thing in the picture and it angers me that they will Rx you tons of ADDICTIVE medications that will make you physically ill if you stop taking them, but outlaw marijuana (unless you are on of the lucky ones who qualify for medical marijuana).
I hadn't smoked for many years but I will admit, I tried it twice recently because my pain was just that bad, I have neighbors, I wouldn't ever have sought it out on my own. My pain decreased so much. My neuropathy, my eye pain, my appetite which is NON-EXISTENT came back....and my pain stayed gone for a long time. I am really annoyed that there is this cheap, more non addictive way to treat my pain but I can't because I have my little one and I don't ever want to risk losing him because of something I've done.
UGHHH. I'll get off my soapbox. This country is SO BACKWARDS, in so many ways. I could go on forever....but I'll spare you.
-------------------- ---Beautiful Disaster--- IgeneX WB: IgM: 18+, 31+, 41+, 58+, IgG: 31++, 39 IND, 41++, 31kda Epitope Test: Positive Labcorp: IgM: 23+, 41+ No LLMD due to money since Sept 2008. Was on Doxy, I.V. Rocephin (30 days), Flagyl. Also dx with Bartonella. Posts: 139 | From United States, East Coast-ish | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Well, beautiful, it wasn't judgmental on my part, he told me he's tried to get off it but is addicted. Sorry if you consider that insane. It's not about withdrawal symptoms for him. He says he would need help to get off, but since he's in his 70's he doesn't think it's worth the trouble. If he were younger, he'd seek help.
Maybe it has to do with the fact that he's using it as a medicine that he would need help getting it off. That would be entirely different from using it recreationally.
BTW, it took me six months to wean off sleeping meds. I KNOW how hard they are to stop using.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I appreciate both opinions shared, but I especially agree with beautiful disasters comments on marijuana and the backwards world we live in.
Beautiful: you should really watch that documentary.
With addictive prescription meds, we all want to get off them because we KNOW they are highly addictive and can cause other heath problems with long-term usage.
What about marijuana? There is not one recorded death due to marijuana usage alone. I've never been addicted. Why try to get off something that has no recorded long term side effects if it works for you?
Posts: 124 | From Toronto | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Oh yea Pot is highly addictive. I look to my brothers problems with THC.
Some thing I read from my brothers clinical hand out:
Marijuana is an addictive drug, according to the American Society of Addictive Medicine. In June of 1997, a team of laboratory researchers found that marijuana produced the same biochemical changes in the brains of rats as highly addictive drugs, such as heroin, cocaine, nicotine, and alcohol.
The researchers discovered that smoking pot seems to alter the brain chemistry of users in a way that makes them more vulnerable to using drugs like heroin and cocaine. That could explain why 90 percent of hard-drug users say that they used marijuana first.
Another way addiction specialists define addiction is by noting what happens when a substance is withdrawn. THC, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, is the active ingredient in marijuana.
In one study, subjects who were given high-dose THC pills for three weeks experienced irritability, restlessness, sleep disturbances, sweating, and nausea when they stopped taking the THC pills.
Pot and the body
Regular use of pot can lead to a host of serious physical and psychological problems, from panic attacks and impaired judgment to delayed puberty and lung cancer.
Marijuana contains 150 different elements, including THC. When marijuana is smoked, THC flows through the bloodstream and interacts with different areas of the brain, such as the hippocampus, which is responsible for memory, and the cerebellum, which controls movement. The highest concentration of THC, however, binds with the middle of the brain. It is this binding that triggers the secretion of the feel-good hormone dopamine. This is what produces a feeling of mellowness or carefree numbness -- a "high."
Because marijuana affects the hippocampus, the part of your brain that forms new memories, smoking it can inhibit new memory formation. That can be a serious problem if you're in school, trying to learn. There have been no studies on the long-term effects of marijuana on child and adolescent brains, so the extent to which smoking pot permanently damages brain cells is unknown.
Personally I feel intoxicated stoned everyday for the past two years with Lyme Neurotoxins. I can't even think about adding POT to my problems.
I PASS ON GRASS.
KA
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Well, I still thank that's insane. Just my opinion and I've been around it quite a bit in my time. I have had a ton of friends who smoked and non of us would have EVER called themselves addicts. And by the way, I graduated H.S. early, with honors, and was active in every activity that was offered. 3 sports + cheerleading. Then we all went to college, we all performed well. Everyone graduated but me, I decided to join the military....so of course I stopped then! I had quit before that too, on my own, and I never would consider that a hard thing that I had to do.
However, taking these pills are very so PHYSICALLY addicting. I hate it. It says take every 6 hours and in 4, I'm sweating but have the chills, etc. It's hell and I hate it. So, I'm comparing saying being "addicted" to pot to being "addicted" to pain meds....and I LOL at the difference. I'll take a pot "addiction" any day.
The thing that was INSANE about that post (my opinion ONLY) was the fact that people come on talking about Percoset, Oxys, Vicodin, (as I have taken) etc.....and I don't hear people talking about addiction with those things and I don't hear a lot of warnings about that. Those meds can end up being the devil. Pot is not.
Treatment centers are filled with people trying to detox from pain medicines, serious drugs....I used to volunteer for treatment centers and I never met anyone that was there for pot addiction, shaking, vomiting, shivering, and there for a long time for weed usage. Pot is no more addicting if you use it for pain than if you use it for fun. The weed doesn't know why you are using it.
Lung cancer deaths: I agree. I'm sure there have been lung cancer deaths. I also have noticed, however, that often, where there is weed, there is also tobacco. I'm not saying that is a rule, just my experience. I haven't met a person that didn't smoke cigarettes but did smoke weed....but I'm sure there are some. I'd say more often than not, people smoke cigarettes.
And boy, I wish I felt stoned from Lyme. Instead, I feel like I'm on uppers. My pain is so intense, my mind races, heart pounds, and I don't sleep at night. I'm strung out and sick of it. So, I'd take feeling stoned.
And as for studies: I can find a study for EVERYTHING. We can find some on studies for long term antibiotic use, how people have actually overdosed and died from supplements, etc. We could do that all day.
Generally, the people I had worked with and trained with, the worst symptom from quitting marijuana: a few sleepless nights.
I'm sorry, I just thought it was a little ridiculous having a warning about pot when a lot of us are on much more addictive stuff than pot....and for good reason, LYME SUCKS. I'm addicted to not wanting to be in pain! Amen? lol.
-------------------- ---Beautiful Disaster--- IgeneX WB: IgM: 18+, 31+, 41+, 58+, IgG: 31++, 39 IND, 41++, 31kda Epitope Test: Positive Labcorp: IgM: 23+, 41+ No LLMD due to money since Sept 2008. Was on Doxy, I.V. Rocephin (30 days), Flagyl. Also dx with Bartonella. Posts: 139 | From United States, East Coast-ish | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Pot is not addicting, does not cause lung cancer, nor is it a gateway drug, anyone that thinks any of these, is caught up in the old reefer madness hysteria and needs to get with the times.
All these arguments have been debunked with modern research, it's just swept under the carpet to keep the sheeple in the dark because hemp and marijuana benefits threaten our two largest domestic industries. (Oil and pharm).
Go educate yourselves, that's just barbaric lines of thinking.
Posts: 501 | From Cleveland Ohio | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
"The researchers discovered that smoking pot seems to alter the brain chemistry of users in a way that makes them more vulnerable to using drugs like heroin and cocaine. That could explain why 90 percent of hard-drug users say that they used marijuana first."
Hmmm.
I'll bet most of those heroin users would say that they drank milk before ever trying heroin, too. So maybe milk alters the brain chemestry to make them more vunerable to hard drug use, too. I say it's time we go after those troublsome cows! We need to declare a war on dairy!
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
It's pretty bad for your immune system, but good for things like nausea. Sometimes it can make you more depressed long term too. Just be careful.
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posted
I have a relative who has smoked recreational MJ for many years. He will tell you he is not addicted and how non-smokers are biased.
He has a justification list as long as his arm yet he doesn't mention how it is destroying his marriage because his pot purchase comes before anything else.
I don't smoke cigarettes nor MJ. If it helps you then continue it. I personally choose painkillers over pot because I am a non-smoker.
I try to be considerate and realize we all have to do what helps us most yet I don't get on here and blast anyone choosing to use pot for their medicial needs.
Oh yeah, this guy also has woes at work, a couple accidents in a company vehicle, an increasing anger problem, and a son that sees what is going on with his daddy.
Posts: 245 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Hey I'm not saying not to use it. If it helps people in pain then by all means use it. I was just saying that in my situitation I feel toxic all day/night already.
I have a hell of a time clearing neurotoxins (confusion) so I would choose not to add to it.
I also have a weakened immune system that I am trying to restore and it has been said more then once how MJ can weaken an immune system even more.
I read about immune dysfunction and MJ and all post a little here:
The most potent argument against the use of marijuana to treat medical disorders is that marijuana may cause the acceleration or aggravation of the very disorders it is being used to treat.
Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells.
For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in AIDS patients.
Studies further suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker?s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells.
Obviously, this suggests the conclusion, which is well-supported by scientific studies, that the use of marijuana as a medical therapy can and does have a very serious negative effect on patients with pre-existing immune deficits resulting from AIDS, organ transplantation, or cancer chemotherapy, the very conditions for which marijuana has most often been touted and suggested as a treatment.
It has also been shown that marijuana use can accelerate the progression of HIV to full-blown AIDS and increase the occurrence of infections and Kaposi?s sarcoma.
In addition, patients with weak immune systems will be even less able to defend themselves against the various respiratory cancers and conditions to which consistent marijuana use has been linked.
Donald P. Tashkin, M.D., "Effects of Marijuana on the Lung and Its Immune Defenses
KA
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Lung cancer? You can't find one recorded case of marijuana causing lung cancer.
I have never smoked cigarettes nor have I ever tried any harder drugs.
There are also studies that boldly say "marijuana, with long term use, is not an addictive drug"
Toppers hit the nail on the head.
And that guy with anger problems--that is definitely not caused by pot. He has other issues that need to be dealt with.
Posts: 124 | From Toronto | Registered: Aug 2009
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
No citizen of these United States should be legally FORCED into dependence on unnatural chemicals, pharmaceutical companies, and doctors for personal pain control. IMHdangO.
Furthermore, untreated or under-treated chronic pain can become intractable and eventually untreatable. I wish the DEA would do a little research once in awhile.
Why does everyone think you have to smoke pot to get the benefits? Granted, it takes more of it if you bake it into foods, but it still works.
If mj were easily obtainable or could be legally grown for medical use - and therefore very cheap - you wouldn't have to be concerned with how much you used (like for baking).
Ages ago, some friends and I made some spaghetti with mj in it once. Boy, was it nasty. Stick with brownies.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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IckyTicky
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posted
Toppers I have to disagree. It is addicting. I can say that because I was addicted to it and my father still is. He WANTS to stop but CAN'T. So what else would you call it? It has nothing to do with hysteria or lack of being in the "times".
And uh.. we all know how RELIABLE "modern research" is.
I always get a kick out of people who are just SO adament that the good ole Mary Jane can't be addictive. The ones who hollar that the loudest seem to be the ones who can't imagine life without it.
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
Also.. for anyone who has never tried marijuana .. be warned that you will not have control of your thoughts. That was the worst part of it for me. I hated not having control over what I was thinking of.
My father convinced my mother to try it twice.. both times it made her want to pick up a knife and stab people.
People react in different ways to it.
Also, my father had to have a complicated tooth extraction done and thought that the pot would ease his pain. Instead it made him focus on the pain more.
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Oh I bet the IDSA members are having a party with this thread. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
IckyTicky if you were describing crystal meth your story MIGHT be plausible. I would site your family as having mental health problems instead. Stabbing people? Please... I don't need to say anymore that's so far out there, I'm speechless.
I'm out, some generations cannot be reached on this topic and never will. The veil of ignorance is thick on the topic of a beneficial plant less harmful to the body than baby aspirin, unbelievable.
Posts: 501 | From Cleveland Ohio | Registered: Apr 2009
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-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Actually there is a component in "medicinal" pot that may work without the "high". Go here:
Rather than spend millions to develop synthetic antibodies to CB2, it would be a lot more cost effective to admit the Romanian doctors were right...restore Mg (P5P too) levels AND give IV abx. to eliminate this infection.
Restore the health of our own antibodies...isn't Mg what a component of the beta lactams ligates anyway? Which combines with ATP as Mg-ATP to aid phosphate transfer. Not to mention the impact of MORE Mg on alpha amylase.
Or there maybe another way...taking very high levels of EPA (formulation in OmegaBrite) and VCO = virgin coconut oil.
OmegaBrite comes in kids' dosages and VCO doses can be adjusted and can be taken as a coconut milk. Want the link?
EPA is working on several levels, but suffice it to say, it downregulates inflammation.
The nutrients in VCO:
"Glycerol monolaurate inhibits the production of beta-lactamase, toxic shock toxin-1, and other staphylococcal exoproteins by ***interfering with signal transduction.***"
But I think all the saturated fats in VCO work together...esp. also caprylic acid.
If you use pot (and it inhibits CB1 too)...you're gonna increase dopamine -> norepinephrine -> epinephrine.
Bb's OspA locks onto those.
Dopamine is being downregulated via melatonin...harmful or helpful depends on which 2009 Pubmed abstract you believe.
I have a lot more...interested? We need to take a hard look at what happens when/if the mAB to CB2 (to Bb's OspB) locks on...the good AND the bad aspects of that.
Alpha hemolysin.
To be continued? Your call.
P.S. Pot IS addicting...dopamine is the trigger.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
You don't have to smoke it. You can ingest it. IT is a drug, and so its best to go to a doctor who typically presrcibes it. I think you can even get it in a tincture....
Also, just a point of clarification, there is a big difference between "addicted" and "physically dependent".
Addicted is when you begin taking more and more of the drug, you engage in illegal or other nafarious activities in order to increase your dosage, you are highly secretive, etc..Withdrawl symptoms can be life threatening.
Physically dependent means that you take the same amount of drug on a regular schedule, but need to cut back slowly to avoid unpleasant withdrawl symptoms.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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Yeah, those who think pot causes cancer have a LONG ways to come from the dark ages. The witch burning crusade of ignorance is over and will be coming to a crashing end soon.. Posts: 501 | From Cleveland Ohio | Registered: Apr 2009
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I have a friend that smokes MJ to sleep.
She recently went to a chiropractor, and he did some X-rays, or some other kind of scan (not sure what it was exactly). Then he said, "so you smoke?" Meaning cigarettes.
And she was like, "no...why?"
And he told her he could tell by looking at her scans.
She told me she was shocked, because she doesn't even smoke weed everyday, yet to the chiro it looked like she was a cigarette smoker.
If I were going to use marijuana, I would put it in food, personally. Though it's not something I plan on using.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Let me make this clearer (I hope)
Our own antibody to Bb's OspB is monoclonal antibody CB2. mAB CB2.
The RECEPTOR our antibody locks onto is a cannaboid receptor - CB2.
Competition? If the protein in pot locks onto the receptor that our own antibody normally would lock onto...
Do they actually work the same when different things (proteins) lock onto the identical receptor? Are the proteins the same?
Alpha hemolysin (which is triggered when our OWN antibody to Bb locks onto CB2) IS an anti-inflammatory.
And it does a whole lot more.
Unfortunately our own antibody to Bb's OspB is "damaged" and Mg restores the "health" of that antibody. Documented tons of times. Pubmed.
But, it looks to take restoring Mg AND giving IV abx. (BOTH are needed) to knock out lyme.(Romanian abstract).
It sure looks like we need to reduce inflammation (and provide anti-histamine support)with what our body NEEDS - magnesium... WHILE hitting Bb with a drug/supplement that can help...in addition to our own "restored" antibodies.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Look at the similarity:
"It appears as if cannabinoids have a connection with autoimmunity.
The loss of one or more cannabinoid receptor signals could lead to B cell proliferation according to some of these papers.
In particular, deleting CB2 seems to cause an inflammatory bowel condition in mice.
***The fact that CB2 is actually upregulated in I.B.D. patients but absent in normal patients may indicate that the body is trying to downregulate inflammation a little too late.
Taking low-dose CB1 or CB2 antagonists (me: like own antibody to CB2) might boost receptor expression and enhance sensitivity in the gut and local immune system to endogenous cannabinoids
and thus ***block B cell-led autoimmunity***
(but might also leave you vulnerable to infection for the same reason rituxan does).
These are all educated guesses. I also don't know if this would produce any psychoactive side effects.
Straight CB1 agonists (me: = helper) definitely do that.
To my knowledge, nobody's used low-dose antagonists in the cannabinoid family like this before.
Given the relatively recent marketing of cannabinoid drugs like Rimonabant (a CB1 antagonist at 20mg)
and cannabinol or cannabidiol (CB2 antagonists), I don't know how easy it will be to compound these drugs into smaller doses."
PMID: 16286810 PMID 16924491 PMID 17041005 PMID 17007821 PMID 17185040 PMID 17000011 (Is Bb inhibiting PKCB2? -> CB2 expressed which our own antibody is supposed to lock onto, but can't because it is "damaged")
It sure as heck looks like we need an healthy antibody or something to lock onto the CB2 receptor WHILE hitting Bb with a powerful (IV DOSES) of an abx. or the "right" supplement(s)- VCO maybe.
TWO steps.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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I have also heard great things about Kratom being used for people with severe pain from Lyme disease and more. As a substitute for MJ. At the present time it is not illegal in the US, it is in certain Countries.
People have used this plant as a tea with great sucess for pain relief.
If anyone knows more about Kraytom please feel free to comment.
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
Okay... so even my pot smoking friends who say they LIKE that they don't have control of their thoughts (and some who quit because they didn't like that fact)... they must be in some sort of mass hysteria with me?
Let's see... my dad's buddy who drives stoned and causes an accident. That makes MJ so very gentle! Not harmful at all! I've driven while stoned... and I didn't remember how I got from point A to point B.. I only know I laughed the whole way!
I know what pot does. My dad grew it (still does) and actually supported my family on the distribution of it. I started smoking it in my teens right along with my dad. What my mother says she felt... why would she make it up? It made her simply not want to try it anymore.
So.. everyone I personally know must have mental disorders. Must be from the POT.
It's not my "generation" that is the problem. I'm not saying MJ doesn't have medicinal properties...I'm saying the risks outweigh the benefits especially in people who already have neuro issues from LD.
No need to attack me and call me mental just because I relate my personal experience and what my parents have told me of theirs.
You don't have control of your thoughts. I'm not the only one who knows this. I was a pot head my whole teenage life.. I know what it did to me. Thanks
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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