posted
I'm a constant chiropractic patient - my joints don't seem to hold. Even a bad car ride that's bumpy can throw them out, so now I am needing cars with better shocks to ride in.
I'm wondering if any of you have gone through this and have figured out how to stabilize them.
I would like not to have to go to the chiro all the time, plus it will be a lot less expensive!
I'm thinking of trying Ultra Body Toddy again, a liquid mineral supplement that I used to do in smaller doses a long time ago.
Also a friend suggested trying lots of manganese.
Anything else that's worked? Thx!
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Be careful with manganese body dosent require to much of it.
Get b12 shots that help the muscles stabilize bones.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
Vitamin E at 600 a day is helping me. It is also recommended in the new protocol mentioned in a previous thread.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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massman
Unregistered
posted
Strengthening muscles around the joints is best. The chiro has not given you specific exercises to help ?
Some people are what we used to call "double jointed" which means that their joints are hypermobile - move too much. Ligaments seem to be too weak in this. May have some genetic predisposition.
Used to adjust a 30 year old male whose kids had the same problems.
Another factor may be areas that have been injured a few times. Had a patient with 3 whiplash injuries that often "went out".
Supplement KYRO from Systemic Formulas is designed to help stabilize joints.
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posted
My son has made good progress with prolotherapy. It's not covered by our insurance and it's expensive. He says prolo helped him more than any other treatments or meds.
Prolo tightens the liagments to support the muscles.
-------------------- Peggy
~ ~ Hope is a powerful medicine. ~ ~ Posts: 2775 | From MN | Registered: Apr 2001
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i totally dislocated my ellbow 14 days ago - i started this silica for connective tissue right away - i now can move my arm again - at least carefully......
take care
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Thanks for all replies, everyone! I think I'm going to run all the ideas by my LLMD next week.
So, in response -
Treepatrol - how much manganese? I have a friend who takes it like there's no tomorrow, but then she heavydoses on everything and gets away with it
And B12 shots - have you seen it stop muscles from pulling on joints? Also maybe I could do something with oral? I'm doing sublingual VitB tablets now and can only handle a little of it, otherwise I get a headache.
Pinelady - how do you witness VitE 600mg helping you? What recent guidelines and thread here are you referring to?
Massman, no, I'm not double-jointed. I just started having chiro care for what I thought was a bad back, and probably it or the Lyme or both loosened the joints, I guessing ligaments?
I've had a lot of physical therapy and conditioning and currently do gentle modified yoga stretching, walking and swimming. I eventually flunked Cybex equipment, which was my steady work-out until this condition progressed.
Has anyone found that a cardiovascular workout really improved your circulation to the point of seeing an improvement in your health?
This targeting injured areas? Not more than the usual bumps in life, I'd say.
I looked at the ingredients in the KYRO supplement - there's a lot of them and some I don't recognize - I'm highly allergic to stuff so I don't know if I'm going to pass such a mix.
If I were to try it, it would have to come with a money-back guarantee, which I have to use alot.
Pab, I tried prolotherapy for one area and I was so sore I couldn't move for some days afterwards and it didn't help the area, so I quit. Found the aftermath too painful to go through. Was your son able to handle the procedure better?
Diana, I have tested for co's, all negative, I don't think I have babesia - no sweats/chills, etc.
Gigi - so jarrosil is silicon - you've taken this along with a comprehensive mineral supplement? Were you already taking minerals before you hurt your elbow and then added the jarrosil?
Do you know much about what silicon does in the body or were you just trying it to see whether it would work?
The write-up says it's a partner for glucosamine for joints. From what I understand, glucosamine is for healing cartilage.
I think my loose joints involves ligaments. Are you aware of more things that affect ligament health?
I don't really know much about the physiology of what's happening to our tissues due to the bacteria.
I want to think it through here -
Lyme bacteria first invades the brain/spinal cord/nerves and inflames all. My first symptoms were stiff neck and shoulders - that could be both cranial nerve involvement and spinal meningitis.
Thus the bacteria irritates all the muscles enervated by the nerves, and they tighten up and pull on the neck and back muscles.
One of my best tools, by the way, has been what's called an Equalizer - it's a triangular vibrating hand-held machine that I use to "vacuum" the back muscles - run it up and down the spine and it gets the muscles relaxed equally on both sides.
Before I knew I had Lyme, I got a ton of massage - it felt good but didn't stop any of the symptoms.
Then the bacteria uses up our minerals and vitamins and we don't have nutrition, including for enzymes, hormones, etc.
Then it can colonize the tissues anywhere.
So an unstable back could be all of the above, plus due to a ton of chiropractic care.
If I have to keep being adjusted, I'd still like to help stabilize the tissues.
Have any of you had the problem of being a chiropractic patient with Lyme and taking supplements that made you better? Or was it more a matter of treating with other things - abx, herbs, etc - that made you better such that your back was not unstable anymore?
And what I mean by unstable - if I get bounced in a poor-shock car, it can bounce my vertebrae out of place. Needless to say, this is sorely slowing down my transportation efforts and depleting my back account for chiro care and I would like to see if I can do something about it.
I used to take Ultra Body Toddy in the 90s, recommended by the myofascial therapist - it's the same stuff that's in the Ultra mangosteen juice - it hardens my nails. And I'm thinking I could see if a larger amount could do more.
I just remembered something else - cab drivers - yes, when I take cabs, this is the central issue, the car shocks, lol - cab drivers from Eastern Europe have recommended getting bones and boiling them and drinking the broth, I guess for the gelatin. Has anyone done this?
By the way, the clindamycin I take stops all fibromyalgia pain and takes down joint swelling. That's as good I've got and I'm grateful for that much.
Anyway, thank you all for responding, and up for anymore experience with this.
[ 10-25-2009, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I'm one of those hyper-mobile folks, so my yoga practice can sometimes be challenging.
In fact, now that my co-infections seem to be rearing their ugly heads, my elbows have been really week, especially on the right side.
Now. . to set the stage, think super strong, muscle to the bone, hard working yoga practice.
I do planks and side planks and handstands regularly. Granted, these days I do them while crying, since I'm clearly hitting bugs in the brain.
But now, just in the last week I've had really loose joints. Could it be a babesia flare? Or bartonella?
This is an interesting topic. Hope I'm not hi-jacking the thread but I'm so interested in this.
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
I'm one of those hyper-mobile folks, so my yoga practice can sometimes be challenging.
In fact, now that my co-infections seem to be rearing their ugly heads, my elbows have been really week, especially on the right side.
Now. . to set the stage, think super strong, muscle to the bone, hard working yoga practice.
I do planks and side planks and handstands regularly. Granted, these days I do them while crying, since I'm clearly hitting bugs in the brain.
But now, just in the last week I've had really loose joints. Could it be a babesia flare? Or bartonella?
This is an interesting topic. Hope I'm not hi-jacking the thread but I'm so interested in this.
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
Peacemama, you're only hijacking the thread if you post repeatedly. No, jus' kidding. You have every right to be interested.
I do a form of modified yoga - I did yoga as one of those "if you do this, it'll fix you" suggestions, before I knew about Lyme.
I modified every stretch so that my body is fully supported when I do the stretches, like use window sills for support, any kind of a bench for support, etc. If I don't, my joints go out of place, and we don't like that, my joints and I.
Oh my gosh - I just read you do handstands - I'm impressed - I don't think my ketes will let me turn them upside-down - they'll get discombobulated!
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
The other day, I was thinking of you in the taxi with the bumpy ride that was so painful to you.
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
Prolotherapy really works!! It's saved my life. I'll take the short-term pain any day over the long-term pain! And you could take tylenol for the pain, if need be (just no anti-inflammatories, except enzymes).
If you go out of alignment much, you absolutely need Prolotherapy to strengthen the ligaments, tendons, cartilage, even bone, as needed. One session isn't enough to judge by. It can take up to 6 or more sessions, depending on what's going on with you, how bad the damage is, how many areas, how your body responds.
it also depends on the skill of the doctor, how many shots he does per visit, and the solution he uses. (I know more about Prolotherapy than many doctors who do it, having studied it and received it, etc. for decades).
Posts: 3792 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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A chiropractor told me today that wheatgerm oil can strengthen ligaments, also a product called Ligaplex. And asked me to start doing nonimpact exercise 4x/wk on a machine called an elliptical that's at fitness clubs.
An excellent doctor today - smart and creative - asked me to start taking CoQ10 to improve the metabolism of all cells.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
Don't know if this helps with ligament issues in particular but it helps with my joint problems.
Google cinnamon and honey.
I've been taking 2-500 mg. of cinnamon and a tablespoon of raw honey in the am and pm.
It works for me.
I was cutting alot of grass this summer and had major pain in my hips and hands and this simple remedy recommended by a friend of mine helped tremendously.
Good luck!
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6918 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Pilates. It focuses on the smaller, deeper muscle groups rather than your already large, strong muscles. Even my chiropractor recommends exercise for this purpose, and the power point he sent me had all pilates moves in it.
I don't know much about yoga, but it might work for it as well.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Cinnamon and honey does work for me. The cinnamon capsules I buy are 1,000mg each and
the directions are to take 2 twice a day. I also do the honey. I was told to buy honey that is from/within the area you live.
Posts: 31 | From Central Texas | Registered: Sep 2007
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
I hate to tell you guys: the stuff you are claiming that strengthens ligaments doesn't really do that! It may help with pain, etc., but not
strengthen ligaments. Ligaplex may help somewhat, but isn't strong enough to do the job!
Ligaments aren't muscles! Ligaments hold the bones together. Muscles move bones. Prolotherapy is the only therapy that really
heals ligaments, other than the body's own healing mechanisms (which is what makes prolotherapy work). Ligaments are very avascular, so they don't heal well on their own.
When your body doesn't hold an adjustment, it's because the ligaments are over-stretched or damaged.
Posts: 3792 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi Robin--
Glucosamine Sulfate --2000 mg per day--
Make sure it says Sulfate on the bottle- and Not HCL on the back of the label--
HCL is the cheap form of Glucosamine- and is Not effective --
Purchase at Health food store- Not Walmart--
I am 100% sure that I would be in a wheel chair or worse if I had not been taking GS --
My joints are in perty good shape now -
Whole Foods Market store brand is about the best deal around ---
If you dont have a WFM close to you I can pick some up for you and mail it to you ----> Jay
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Jay - questions for ya - Which joints of yours improved? Did you have any spinal instability? Did you ever have a lot of chiro care? Do you know if the glucosamine affects ligaments or is it for cartilage?
And the same question goes for cinnamon, honey, hyaluronic acid - obviously I'm not done researching, if anyone knows anything -
Has anyone taken a super high dose of anything - gelatin, whatever - and gotten any improvement in ligament stabilization?
And thank you for your offer, Jay - I think I have some in a drawer -
Ok - I finally researched ligaments - they are collagen fibers - 2/3 water, 1/3 solid.
The solid part is 75% collagen, with the 25% part being proteoglycans, elastin, other proteins and glycoproteins.
Collagen is the main protein comprising connective tissue. It is a long fibrous structural protein.
Three polypeptide strands get twisted together, stabilized by hydrogen bonds.
The amino acid glycine accounts for 1/3 of the amino acid building blocks.
So...we're dealing with amino acids here - wondering if the Lyme bacteria eats 'em up -
Says Vit C is also needed for Collagen One production.
Under the Synthetic Pathogenesis heading: "...a malfunction of the immune system, called an autoimmune disease, results in an immune response in which healthy collagen fibers are systematically destroyed with inflammation of surrounding tissue."
Continuing on here re the collagen fibers, they are comprised of smaller fibrils, with crosslinks.
When they get overstretched, scar tissue can form that is not as flexible as the original.
The body recruits muscles to stabilize joints that are not as strong, which puts the muscles in spasm.
That's what I go through in my neck, with constant C1 C2 adjusting.
They started Palmer Specific adjustments (C1/C2) on me way back in the early 80s. No one knew about Lyme. When that didn't work, I switched to full-spine chiro adjustments.
I believe my neck is unstable at this point.
I just wanted to know if there was anything that could be done, especially as I experience somewhat loose ligaments elsewhere, like in my wrists, etc, definitely in my pubic symphysis, and would like to try a whole body nutritional replenishment program.
I see my LLMD later this week and want to bring all comments to the appt. Thanks -
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi Robin--
GS Fixes Joints -tendons -cartilage- muscles --
It will tighten up wobble joints ect -- --back--spine-- Everything --
It Rebuilds the tissue --
Every Joint in my body was attacked by Babs --
I used to -snap- crack-- pop-- grind- -- Hurt Horribly --
2 Long time chiropractors told me I had the tightest muscles they had ever felt- Babs makes muscles have extreme tightness--
Make Sure NOT to get the HCL form -
Eat the rubbery stuff (cartilage) around chicken joints to get the chondroitin that can be added in the GS pills --
GS is as close to Magic as medicine gets-- --Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Wanted to add a couple comments from my LLMD -
First, he recommended taking bioflavenoids with rutin and VitC in it, 1000-3000mg/day. The NOW brand is ok.
I'm going to try Ultra Body Toddy or any product just like it - something like 70 liquid minerals in it.
Also recommended horse chestnut, biosil (Jarrow), and MSM (for methyl groups).
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
My joints became unstable, cracking, creeking after I got sick with Lyme and Babesia. Along with pain came noises in my joints a loose shoulder, elbow, wrist.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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