posted
Posting this for another Lyme patient. She called me this afternoon hysterical that her blood test for magnesium was high. I told her that most Lyme patients usually have LOW magnesium levels so this did not make much sense to me.
She said she has no idea why her magnesium level is high, and her LLMD said NOT to worry about it and to stop taking supplements, and that her renal function was fine, and all other blood was fine. Weird!
I told her she was probably taking to much magnesium malate, but then she told me she is not taking ANY magnesium whatsoever and hasn't in months.
That makes no sense to me if she is not taking any mag to begin with.
I googled this and all I found was that kidney failure can cause it but that makes no sense. The magnesium stearate filler in pills/supplements she is taking should not even absorbed really so it's a mystery. She is making a list of meds for me to look at, but is certain there is no mag.
Marnie or anyone have an idea? Thanks.
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
I didn't think having high magnesium was that dangerous because I thought it wasn't toxic?
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Addison's disease (diseases of adrenal glands) Hyperparathyroidism Hypothyroidism Chronic Renal Failure Dehydration Diabetic Acidosis Oliguria Medicine that contains magnesium, such as antacids and laxatives
KA
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Thanks! Okay I got her med list
-Amoxicillin 8,500 /day -Zithromax 600/day -Amantadine 100 mg -Methylcobalamin injections B12 1 shot daily -D-mannose powder 6 scoops/day -Artemesinin 3x per day -echinancea/goldenseal -advil OTC not sure dose
no magnesium and she said her blood was all normal, no diabetes, and normal thyroid tests, kidney function ok. She says the mannose says magnesium stearate on the label and that the doses are high, but i told her that is just a filler to make the machines run smoothly in supplement factories. I dont think that is absorbed. It's in everything it seems.
Maybe she had dehydration, thanks bigstan, I will pass this on.I feel like Dr. House trying to solve this over here. lol
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-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
1. Lab tests can be inaccurate.
2. How was her Mg level tested? Mg is notoriously very hard to measure...intracellular levels (where Mg is attached to our ATP as Mg-ATP).
3. I suspect Bb may transport Mg -"force it out" of the cells.
4. What is going on with her kidneys? They balance the electrolytes....all of them.
5. "Hemolysis, magnesium concentration in erythrocytes is approximately three times greater than in serum, therefore hemolysis can increase plasma magnesium. Hypermagnesemia is expected only in massive hemolysis.
Other conditions that can predispose to mild hypermagnesemia are diabetic ketoacidosis, adrenal insufficiency, hyperparathyroidism and lithium intoxication."
From Wikipedia
From the above, if hemolysis is happening...her RBC count will be dropping, I think.
When something (like our own antibody to Bb's OspB (mAB CB2) locks onto the receptor, CB2, this -> alpha hemolysin which DOES lyse RBCs AND breaks down liposomes also (think of them as tiny building blocks of lipoproteins).
That is how our OWN antibody, if it wasn't damaged (fab portion) works to destroy Bb.
The excess Mg would prevent Bb from rebuild "his" cell walls (INactivating HMG CoA reductase), the release of very toxic iron, the lysis of Bb's lipoproteins...
The excess Mg will HELP her to make "healthy" antibodies to Bb's OspB which in turn will lock onto that receptor and do what I've described above.
The body is trying to find a way around a problem.
It looks like initially, the Mg loss is coming from our muscle stores.
Ketones are a GOOD thing...In a jam, our brain and heart LOVE ketones which sub for glucose.
Excessive exercise -> ketones = fat is burned.
Follow - fellow "House" lover? ;-)
[ 10-31-2009, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
Hi All,
Her kidney function is fine?
Usually, MD's only test Creatinine.
There is a second test: BUN, which I requested and immediately encountered an argument.
The resistence is due to Canadian Universal Healthcare wanting to keep expenses down - our doctors are gatekeepers for the insurance plans.
I hear you in the US are familiar with this issue.
Insist BUN is tested due to the abnormal Mag. level.
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Hey WC, have your friend request to have a magnesium blood test called "ionized" magnesium done at most large commercial labs.
Magnesium tests should be done on the red blood cells and not the serum. The usual serum magnesium level is of little value because the vast majority of magnesium exists primarily inside of cells (intracellular, as in red blood cells).
She will get a more accurate reading on her mag results.
KA
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Thanks all, I will pass this on.
She said it was a blood test for CBC and comprehensive metabolic profile, electrolytes, and lipids.
She said they also found a low vitamin D level too.
Yeah, I guess she called the LLMD and she said her renal function was normal and not to worry about having a high Magnesium level in the blood.
Maybe the test was just inaccurate, I will ask about the BUN.
Neat info Marnie, I know I always used to take IM Magnesium and it helped me tons, and for years my magnesium was always fine. This girl isnt taking any. In fact she said when she DID take it months back, it made her muscle twitching worse.
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Did you catch..."adrenal insufficiency" as potential cause for hypermagnesemia?
In reality this is PROTECTIVE from many aspects.
Cortisone -> hypernatremia (Bb needs sodium)
Norepinephrine and epinephrine (=noradrenaline and adrenaline)...Bb's OspA locks onto those.
They come FROM dopamine. Melatonin lowers dopamine.
Since melatonin is being produced (from the break down of tryptophan by our defense cells)...this makes less dopamine, less norepinephrine, less epinephrine available.
So...once again, Bb changes "his" Osp from OspA to OspB.
Our antibody to Bb is based solely on OspB.
mAB CB2. Monoclonal antibody that locks on to the cannaboid B2 receptor.
(Logical if Bb has a PKCB2 inhibitor, that the defense cell might indeed send a receptor CB2 to its surface as a call for help.)
Which is why the vaccine didn't work...it was based solely on OspA.
I think the new vaccine they are working on is based on OspB.
They are modifying Bb's proteins (that is how vaccines are made) and inserting them in a particular "friendly" bacteria (probiotic) for "delivery"...I posted it a long time ago...I don't remember which probiotic they are using off the top of my head, but it is a brilliant idea.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
WC,
Please recall that there are two Vit. D tests, and Bb converts one type of Vit D (D25) into the other (D125).
She needs to have both checked: typically D25 (which is the one usually tested) is low, and D1,25 will be high.
Best wishes,
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
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Starfall1969
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17353
posted
My LLMD said my magnesium level is high too, so he advised me to stop taking the supplements I have been taking.
My Vitamin D was low too,as it has been since started seeing him.
Posts: 1682 | From Dillsburg, PA | Registered: Sep 2008
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5dana8
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