canefan17
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posted
Thought I'd simplify a few things.
Just got back from my visit with my LLMD. He was in DC at the ILADS conference a week or two ago.
Like some of you have seen mentioned... the biggest problem, which has arose recently, for LLMD's is BIOFILMS.
When you treat Lyme with Antibiotcs, some of the antibiotics drive the bacteria into cyst form. but this isn't the problem (we have drugs for cyst forms).
The problem is the bacteria first "circle the wagons" and cluster together and then form into cysts and the biolfilms protects these groups of bugs.
This is where Flagyl can't do much. Flagyl can kill single cyst forms. Flagyl does not have the manpower to destroy these biofilms.
So where do we go from here?
Well it seems as though more and more LLMD's are starting to recognize Dr Marshall and his protocol.
Benicar is popping up more and more now. What does Benicar do?
Benicar lowers your Vitamin D levels and weakens the bacteria.
We need our immune system to fight this disease... and lowering your Vitamin D levels is a huge way to do this.
Research more about it online. google Dysregulation of Vitamin D levels for Lyme Patients.
LETS TALK ABOUT BENICAR
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posted
The LLMD's that are doing all the biofilm research are not using the Marshall Protocol.
Lowering your Vit D levels on purpose is pretty unhealthy. Many of us actually take extra Vitamin D because we are already low in it.
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posted
I did research subject for 2 weeks , initially I was very enthusiastic about it , but I realized that while some points Dr. Marshall makes are solid and sound his stance on Vitamin D is vulnerable to critique which he and his proponents are unable to answer.
and decide for yourself
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canefan17
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posted
Buster,
I know they aren't using the Marshall Protocol... but I think they are starting to open their eyes to the possibility.
Most LLMD's laughed at the idea of lowering your Vitamin D levels.
Now many are saying, "Hmmm this is interesting and it makes sense."
There was MUCH proof at the recent convention in DC that confirmed Marshall's theories on dysregulating vitamin D levels.
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canefan17
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posted
coltman,
That's some intense stuff. I didn't read the entire thing.
Can you summarize what the main idea is. Just that the lowering of Vit D levels have no "proven" benefit or that Benicar has no proven benefit in doing so?
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springshowers
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posted
This is interesting. I have heard conflicting things about Marshalls protocol. Was his method with lowering D for the purpose of disolving biofilms to start with or that just coming up now?
I know for sure this is a big issue. I have been trying a few things that I take prior to infusing my Abx and it make a huge different when I do use something as opposed to when I do not use something and you can tell from the reaction very obvsiously and quickly..
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posted
I wish I had more time to share thoughtfully, as:
- Benicar and the MP helped me get better; - I continue to research biofilms and believe it is the #1 problem with many patients; not just Lymies.
This problem of biofilms in resisting antibiotics was identified more than 20 years ago, so it is almost a miracle that smart researchers are getting articles reviewed and published on polymicrobial films, e.g.:
So why would the MP help? Dunno, it's all speculative. Maybe BECAUSE the MP requires that NO supplements be taken, biofilm formation processes in the body are diminished. I've wondered about this for a while -- but can only credit a wonderfully bright biofilm researcher with this idea.
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Rumigirl
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posted
Springshowers,
What specific things have you noticed have helped when you infuse? And why do you think they help?
I'm really interested in this topic. I, also, wonder about the Marshall Protocol or any part of it. But I am reluctant to jump on that bandwagon at the moment.
I have been EXTREMELY low in vitamin D, and have had no sun exposure for many years. Not healthy in my opinion. I know he talks about the other vitamin D reading, but I'm not convinced at this point. But am open to new ideas.
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springshowers
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posted
Well. I have been using different kinds of EDTA and different enzymes.
When I first started IV ABx I did not use anything prior. But within the next couple weeks I started to.
I herxed and felt the affect of the abx near immediately or even during the infusion.
I then worked on detox and binding.
Has anyone read the AUtism sites that relate lyme to autism. Those doctors are doing just that.
THe give something they think will break the biofilm down. WIthin 30 to 60 minutes the give the abx. And then within the next 30 to 60 minutes they give binders and try to detox and aid in getting out the nuerotoxins etc.
I may not be exact on the times. but it is pretty much a bang bang bang type protocol..
SO i do that two to four times a day.. Depending on whether i am taking a cyst buster that day or whatever.
SO what I was saying was.. Wow.. I could tell an immediate differenece in how the treatment felt.
Also this happened on low doses and I had to slowly work up. I now am at a plateu of sorts. Been adding more enzmes now.
But not sure what the plateua means yet. Maybe I got the major stuff??
SO for me I worry about getting into the tissue and organs and that penetration.
I also do IV edta as well as oral.
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TerryK
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posted
The problem with benicar is that it lowers blood pressure.
Many lyme patients already have very low blood pressure. When it gets too low, your body cannot get enough blood to the heart and brain. This can be dangerous.
For systolic, anything below 90 is abnormal. My doctor measured my systolic bp to be 70 recently. I would not want to go lower for fear of fainting or causing some damage to my body.
Terry
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canefan17
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posted
Cold Feet,
How long did you do the MP for?
Are you 95% better?
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Carol in PA
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posted
quote:Originally posted by canefan17: Benicar is popping up more and more now. What does Benicar do?
Benicar lowers your Vitamin D levels and weakens the bacteria.
We need our immune system to fight this disease... and lowering your Vitamin D levels is a huge way to do this.
Okay, this information is at odds with everything I know.
It was my understanding that Benicar reduced inflammation. This is what got me started looking for things to reduce inflammation, and I found systemic enzymes.
Lowering your Vitamin D levels is NOT the way to strengthen your immune system. This is why people take Vitamin D supplements, and why people with adequate D are less likely to get sick with influenza.
The information you're giving turns everything upside down. What's going on?
Carol
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canefan17
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posted
Lowering your vitamin D levels IS the way to get your immune system back to normal.
Keep in mind this is in CHRONIC DISEASE PATIENTS ONLY! (Cell Wall Deficient Bacteria)
A healthy person would continue getting vitamin D from food, sun, etc.
They aren't harboring a stealthy/deadly cell wall deficient bacteria in their body.
Vitamin D isn't a vitamin. A vitamin, by definition, is something your body cannot! produce on its own.
Vitamin D is produced in the kidneys. It is NOT A VITAMIN.
It interacts with cell wall deficient bacteria in an interesting way.
Vitamin D is an immunosuppresent and it's conversion in the body is basically disrupted by these bacterias that have taken over our cells. They use our own **** to get stronger and stealthier (its sick I know).
This dysregulation of Vitamin D causes an increase in hormone 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D suppressing your immune system allowing the bacteria to infiltrate.
Guys this is the wave of the future in terms of Chronic diseases. Until we have more money to research and investigate more, we rely on Dr's such as Dr. Marshall to do amazing research and come to amazing conclusions.
LLMD's everywhere are starting to open their eyes. It happened 2 weeks ago in DC at the convention.
Now don't get me wrong.... (I'm not even on the Marshall Protocol)... I'm not saying the MP is the only way to go.
I'm currently killing off as much as I can and trying to build my immune system up to function normally for the rest of my life.
Just trying to become asymptomatic (not trying to destroy all the bacteria/lyme in my body)
So I'm not promoting Marshall protocol. I just wanted to discuss it.
Vermont_Lymie
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posted
I have to agree with Carol. Supplementing with Vitamin D (D3) is generally an immune-enhancer and strengthener, and that is why many of us take D3 as advised by our doctors.
Lots of information to consider if you google "D3 and immune system." For example, below:
Wednesday, May 23, 2007 60% Cancer Drop From Vitamin D Supplements Vitamin D - the new Vitamin C?
60% Cancer Drop From Vitamin D Supplements
A four-year clinical trial involving 1,200 women found those taking the vitamin had about a 60-per-cent reduction in cancer incidence, compared with those who didn't take it, a drop so large -- twice the impact on cancer attributed to smoking -- it almost looks like a typographical error.
One of the researchers who made the discovery, professor of medicine Robert Heaney of Creighton University in Nebraska, says vitamin D deficiency is showing up in so many illnesses besides cancer that nearly all disease figures in Canada and the U.S. will need to be re-evaluated.
"We don't really know what the status of chronic disease is in the North American population," he said, "until we normalize vitamin D status."
'By Easter, 90 per cent of the population are seriously depleted in the amount of vitamin D they have in their bodies,' says author of the study Dr Elina Hypponnen, of the Institute of Child Health in London.
As we get older and our skin ages it becomes less efficient at using light to catalyze the synthesis of vitamin D. So part of the rise in incidence of vitamin D with age is probably caused by worsening vitamin D deficiency.
Vitamin D might do what Linus Pauling claimed vitamin C could do: reduce the incidence of infections.
The malign consequences have been revealed by in a study from the United States which shows that boosting vitamin D may be the most effective way of warding off infections that cause winter colds.
The authors, from Winthrop University Hospital, Mineola, New York, who publish their findings in the journal Epidemiology and Infection, say vitamin D stimulates "innate immunity" by activating peptides in the body that attack bacteria, fungi and viruses.
"Vitamin D supplementation, particularly with higher doses, may protect against the typical winter cold and flu ... Since there is an epidemic of vitamin D insufficiency in the US, the public health impact of this observation could be great," they write.
Vitamin D deficiency is also linked to a higher incidence of auto-immune diseases. For example, multiple sclerosis occurs at higher rates in the more northern regions of North America where people get less sun in the winter due to both cold and shorter days.
The current max recommended limit of 2000 IU per day might be too low.
A recent review of the science reported that the tolerable upper intake level for oral vitamin D3 should be increased five-fold, from the current tolerable upper intake level (UL) in Europe and the US of 2000 International Units (IU), equivalent to 50 micrograms per day, to 10,000 IU (250 micrograms per day).
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canefan17
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Vermont,
All of that information is for HEALTHY people.
We are not "healthy" people. We have cell wall deficient bacteria in our body.
You have to consider the circumstances when reading that stuff.
And btw, Vitamin D is already produced in the body.
Vitamin D is definitely an immune-suppressor.
Milk, Sun, etc.
*Never knew anybody to drink Milk why they were sick. I guess we just instinctively KNOW that this isn't what my body wants.*
I think Alan Cantwell is absolutely correct in saying that the CWD infection creates the environment and cytokines needed for cancer to start and proliferate.
CAM apparently provides the adhesion necessary for the cancer cells to adhere to tissue, and to each other.
Since excess Vit D will shut down the cytokines, then it will be (and is being) shown as a cancer "cure" when it fact it is just delaying the inevitable.
Another problem with study design - the studies just do not last for long enough to pick up the effects of chronic infection.
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CD57
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posted
This is a good discussion.
I wanted to point something out. Before I started treatment and was diagnosed, I had vit D and other stuff checked. It was normal.
Then about six months ago (two years into treatment) I had it checked again. It was below the normal range. So I started supplementing and now am back in normal-high range.
The Autism stuff I have seen recently from Amy Derksen and Dr K (I think) says that there is better response to treatment when kids have Vit D levels above 80.
Also-my Vit D levels DROPPED during treatment which seem to indicate to me that chronic illness brought the level way down. So something seems amiss with bringing it down further.
But I'm open to hearing more.
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canefan17
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CD57,
Here's the deal with Vit D. Simple terms.
The CWD bacteria WANTS higher levels of 1, 25-D (Vit D)
High levels of Vit D = supressed immune system.
Supressed immune system = favorable living environment for bacteria.
The most frightening thing about it is that when chronic patients supplement Vit D to "control" their vitamin D levels...
They are just masking the symptoms. You get immediate relief from the benefits of Vit D. As a healthy person would.
Vit D, sun, etc makes you feel good. It has anti-inflammatory actions. Can relieve joint pain, help with mood, sleep, etc.
But to sick, chronic CW bacteria patients... it's what's going on behind the scenes that's scary.
With the immune system shut down and inflammation eliminated... the bacteria has a favorable environment to now SPREAD.
Lowering your Vit D levels frees up your immune system to fight the battle it was supposed to fight to begin with.
You will herx when first lowering Vit D. But I bet you'll notice after a month of lowering your vitamin D levels that your CD57 and immune functions will be sky high. (but you won't feel good)
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote: Can you summarize what the main idea is. Just that the lowering of Vit D levels have no "proven" benefit
Yep .there is no proven mechanisms of how lowering vitamin d helps , most of the effects experienced on MP can be attributed to benicar "side" effects and antibacterial effectiveness is mainly to multiple abx (MP is essentialy a combo low dose abx protocol if you throw away benicar stuff)
Au contrary I stumbled across few bits of information disproving his theories about vitamin d 1.25 binding other hormone receptors (it can't do anything to thyroid since there is 100 fold difference in concentration of vitamin d and thyroid hormones )
For claiming "immune " system modulation there is absolutely no information about the actual lab values of MP patients presents anywhere indicating their immune profile . The labs are cytokines assays (IL2 IL4 IL12 IFN-gamma TNF -alpha , etc) -Any serious research in immune effects relies on those values, Marshall for all his claims provides absolutely no proof of immune modulation even though it is confirmed by well known set of labs
All in all I decided I would do the immune modulation with clinically proven ways, not playing gamble with supplements or MP. This is the path I decided to take immune system wise - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez (those are only abstracts , but I read several of original articles listed there)
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The CWD bacteria WANTS higher levels of 1, 25-D (Vit D)
High levels of Vit D = supressed immune system.
There is no proof about that part. Immune system activity is easily verified by a set of labs. If Marshall claims that low 25oh/high 1.25 is indeed immune suppressive(and benicar stimulates it) all he has to do to prove it is to run cytokine assay on patients before treatment and during treatment and publish the results
quote: You will herx when first lowering Vit D. But I bet you'll notice after a month of lowering your vitamin D levels that your CD57 and immune functions will be sky high.
CD 57 is not a serious assay for immune system profile. There are many more variables than NK cells. And even for that part Marshall (and his supporters) provide no data -there been 5 years, hundreds of patients using it, this assay is cheap (and often covered by insurance) -yet no one really ran it and summarized the results?- what kind of research is this?
"herx " can easily be attributed to benicar effects Marshall prefers not to mention.Benicar has effects on immune system -just not trough Vitamin D, and so are abx. And not the one marshall aims for.
Believe me- I was initially stunned by MP and enthusiastically dug in to it (I even ordered benicar and have now stash of it I probably wont ever use) , but deeper I researched more inconsistencies I found. I still share Marshall view that many chronic disease are infectious in nature ,that there is immune system disregulation, that they hide in l-forms and biolfims. Just all of this is not remedied by benicar and lowering of vit d levels.
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canefan17
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posted
colt,
I agree with a lot of what you're saying.
And I too have raised a few questions to the MP.
The ultimate goal, imo, is the same whether you are on MP or Dr B's or Stephen's or herbs, etc...
The goal is to build up your immune system back to a functioning state and live an asymptomatic life.
Kill off as much bacteria as you can and then have your immune system to a point where the bacteria WON'T come out and play.
Create that unfavorable environment and do it for the rest of your life.
Heck, that's what healthy people are doing. Some are doig it without even knowing. But they're doing it.
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Cass A
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posted
Dear Friends,
Personally, I've found some of the MP data to be valid for myself. When I was supplementing with Vit. D, I actually got WORSE (before I knew I had Lyme).
My 1,25D tested WAY, WAY above normal, and my 25-D tested LOW. I stopped taking Vit. D, vit D foods, stayed out of the sun as much as possible, and got the NoIR glasses.
The 1,25 D test dropped considerably, and 25-D came up. I also started doing better.
I'm currently taking the Allergie-Immun drops, and will finish that before deciding what the next treatment steps are for me.
However, my LLMD is now interested in the MP again, after having all his patients (who would do it) on it, and then all but two off it when he wasn't seeing the results he wanted.
From my own research into the MP, I would say that the theory presented on this thread isn't a fully accurate rephrasing of the MP, and links to where it is discussed by Marshall would be valuable for those who are interested. This would be to prevent arguing over someone's understanding of the protocol.
Marshall is having a hospital in China do some medical testing, apparently. I don't know if they will be doing the cytokine testing Coltman describes in his post.
Best,
Cass A
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posted
can someone tell me if it is biofilms that make my hamtrings and shoulder tendons hurt so bad?
Posts: 72 | From West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
I have to weigh in on the Blood Pressure issue: systolic between 80 and 90 is considered borderline hypertensive. 70 is ideal, and in the 60s is not bad ad all. Marshall makes the point that many Lyme patients have abnormally low bp because of the disease, and that their bp sometimes actually goes up or stabilizes on his protocol, because people are getting healthier.
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I am 195% better. I decided to go off antibiotics earlier this year (Candida albicans was high), while continuing with Benicar. I rotate through different enzymes and other natural antimicrobials and continue to get better & better! Some of these include...
coconut oil TriQuench (iodine) aloe vera juice serrapeptase multienzymes (all different kinds) niacinimide Candida Clear (NowFoods; lots of strong herbs)
with occasional:
Bentonite & water liver cleanses antibiotics (different kinds, 2 tabs every few months)
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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TerryK
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posted
psr1 wrote: I have to weigh in on the Blood Pressure issue: systolic between 80 and 90 is considered borderline hypertensive. 70 is ideal, and in the 60s is not bad ad all.
I think you mean hypotensive unless you are talking about diastolic rather than systolic.
Anything below 90 is abnormal according to the expert who studied me in a research hospital in New York and who wrote the text book "Orthostatic Disorders of the Circulation, The Mechanisms, Manifestation and Treatment"
* Benicar has not lowered my BP by any significant amount.
* AFAIK, no treatment other than the MP purports to explain why most lymies have abnormal vitamin D levels. Even if the MP doesn't have the D issue exactly correct, IMO the fact they are attempting to account for this odd abnormality we share is an important step.
* It seems vitamin D does help guard against infection, but it's critical to read up on the mechanism: it does so by damaging cell walls of infectious agents. Bb has evolved a handy survival technique: it can exist in a cell-wall deficient form, thus D is useless against it.
* If our low vitamin 25D were leaving us prone to infectious agents, we would be coming down with more colds or other infections. In fact the opposite is true: most lymies report a decrease in colds and flu.
* That the immune systems of most lymies are stuck in high gear can revealed by steroids. Steroids make us feel better because they turn down this excess immune response, which leaves Bb free to multiply and spread.
* There is no record of vitamin D curing anyone of lyme.
* There are multiple forms of vitamin D. 25D is converted to the biologically active 1,25D form. The standard D blood test is for 25D, while the more expensive 1,25D test is less frequently done. Due to excess conversion, many lymies are low in 25D but high in 1,25D. High 1,25D can bring on its own problems, such as headaches and bone/teeth weakness.
* D is a form of steroid. Steroids suppress the immune system, something we don't want except in case of damaging inflammation. Steroids make us feel better because they turn down this excess immune response, which leaves Bb free to multiply and spread.
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quote: * It seems vitamin D does help guard against infection, but it's critical to read up on the mechanism: it does so by damaging cell walls of infectious agents. Bb has evolved a handy survival technique: it can exist in a cell-wall deficient form, thus D is useless against it.
Really? where did you get that info from. And you are contradicting MP too - immune action of Vitamin D is about VDR receptors, which are supposedly tied down with ligands (mind you BB does not bind it with ligands- it reduces the numbers of VDR itself (by interfering with gene expression).
Marshall himself has no answer of how the hell benicar will help lyme patients when the ligands is not the only problem, and benicar immune system modulation action according to marshall is based on the affinity of it to VDRs. We dont have many VDRs to start with (due to BB) - benicar does nada for that part
quote: * If our low vitamin 25D were leaving us prone to infectious agents, we would be coming down with more colds or other infections. In fact the opposite is true: most lymies report a decrease in colds and flu.
Where do you get the statistics about lyme ppl having decreases in colds and flus?
And btw flu (fever etcs) and colds are typically responses of immune system .If your immune system is down there will be no repsonse . And there are many variables in immune system besides vitamin d, you cannot reduce immune system to simply levels of vitamin d
quote: * There is no record of vitamin D curing anyone of lyme.
No record of Vitamin D (or lack of it) curing anything (o. Vitamin D link so far is about correlation . It is likely a symptom, not a cause. Still it does not prove MP right -since there is no proof for the effects of VitD Marshall claims, he could answer most of the critique with a few simple lab tests yet he does not do so.
quote: Due to excess conversion, many lymies are low in 25D but high in 1,25D. High 1,25D can bring on its own problems, such as headaches and bone/teeth weakness.
And what if you dont have high 1.25 D? I did have very low 25oh ,yet 1.25D was fine. Again the 1.25 -25oh disregulated conversion thing is mostly speculation on Marshall part. He draws many unfounded conclusions from it as well (such as thyroid dysregulation from 1.25)
quote: * D is a form of steroid. Steroids suppress the immune system, something we don't want except in case of damaging inflammation. Steroids make us feel better because they turn down this excess immune response, which leaves Bb free to multiply and spread.
This is purely speculative claim. "Steroids" are just name for specific groups of chemicals . There is no proof 1.25 downregulates immune system
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canefan17
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posted
Cold,
So would you say you're at the point where you're practically "cured?"
How long will you continue to take these supplements and enzymes?
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TerryK
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posted
dguy wrote: Benicar has not lowered my BP by any significant amount.
Thanks for letting us know. Did you have low blood pressure or dysautonomia before you went on benicar? I've read of others who had improvement in bp and some whose bp got dangerously low.
Marshall started out as someone with sarcoidosis. My mother has been diagnosed with atypical sarcoidosis although I think it is probably lyme. It is well known that vitamin D is contraindicated in people with sarcoidosis because macrophages in the granulomas cause elevated levels of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D.
I doubt most of us have had our levels checked but now I'm wondering if this may be an issue for me due to my calcium dysregulation.
It is thought that sarcoidosis is caused by an unknown infection. It's possible that the vit d problem varies depending on genetics and type of infection. Lots of unknowns in the world of infections.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Canefan, I don't think I will ever use the word "cured" for my condition, now that I understand how insidious pathogens and biofilms are.
For that reason, I'll take the non-script antimicrobials for many years to come. Besides, I've acquired some key skills: how to "read" my body as I take these various supplements. All are helping & improving my condition.
I will stay on Benicar for another 1-2 years, I am now on a reduced dosage (appr 80 mg day) and find that's good for me...
OK, back to you guys!
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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canefan17
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posted
Cold Feet,
What do you recommend for some like me who has been on 3months of doxy/plauqenil/ceftin
...and has improved 95%
I Started Flagyl today and will pulse it for 6 weks (2 weeks on 2 weeks off 2 weeks on)
If I come back to my Doctor and tell him I don't have any symptoms... then we're chcking my CD 57 and dropping antibiotics.
YAY!!!
i've been dong so good on this protocol. Almost too good. i'm staying cautiously optimistic. I think these bugs are just hiding from me. (I just hope the bacterial load is small)
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
coltman - vitamin D's activity against cell walls of infective agents is fairly well documented, you should be able to find several mentions in PubMed; sorry, I'm feeling too nauseated today to re-find the specific articles there.
When our immune system is deficient we get opportunistic infections (witness AIDS). In general lymies report the opposite. Stats about lymies decreased levels of cold and flu come from this board; it's been discussed numerous times here.
Many of our symptoms are inflammation related, and inflammation is an expression of immune activity. The symptoms of lymies are a closer match to those associated with autoimmune disorders involving excess immune response.
Yes, some lymies report not having an elevated 1,25D. I have not studied that situation much so don't have any particular comment for that.
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
TerryK - despite ~200 mg benicar daily, my BP came down only about 5 pts from what were always considered normal levels. No dysautonomia dxed.
Sarcoidosis, syphilis, lyme - many similar symptoms, seems likely they are caused by similar bacteria.
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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canefan17
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posted
dguy,
So you follow MP?
How'd the Benicar work for you?
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CD57
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posted
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Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Gee, I've been taking Benicar for over a yr for high blood pressure. I take Vit D3 also but not faithful with it. I live in AZ and my levels for D have been great just from the sun.
I have never felt that Benicar is helping my treatment.
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Friends,
A recent post from Trevor Marshall on one of the MP threads stated that the MP is NOT very helpful for Lyme disease (Borrelia) initially (possibly for quite some time) and not at all for HIV and some other infections he listed.
There are some people with Lyme doing the MP and are part of his research cohort. I have not seen a report on their experiences separated out from those with other afflictions.
At this point--especially with the predicted long "house-bound with major reactions" while the cells infested with the bacteria and viruses die off as one ramps up--I'm satisfied that I didn't start it when I thought it was the best alternative for me (2008). The LLND (W.A.)I went to had already taken all but two of the Lyme patients he'd put on the MP off of it and wouldn't start me on it. Well, I had Babesia badly at that point, so it was a good call for more reasons than one!!
I'm also satisfied that I decided NOT to do IV antibiotics although Dr. W.A. wanted me to, as I was not diagnosed with Lyme until 9 years (at least) after I got it. Current evidence is that IV antibiotics are ineffective for long-term Lyme, as it has gone into the tissues.
Still trying various approaches--I insist on being well again.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
I used energy testing and for a long time my body had very low vitamin D (like 25-30 on the blood test) and mainly wanted NO supplementation and occasionally for a few days a month just 2000 IU a day, a relatively modest/low amount.
After some point, my body started energy testing for loads of vitamin D, something like 60,000 IU daily, and my levels rose up to a very high number, just over 100 if I remember correctly, to the point my one doc said this is generally too high. Yes, this changed in energy testing and what my body was asking for happened after getting angioplasty for CCSVI and making very serious progress against biofilm (coincidence or not).
I was not at the conference, wish I could listen to or read what was being said on the vitamin D (yes, really a hormone). I remember hearing early on in this lyme journey that the bugs can use the vitamin D against us, and so I was not surprised to see my body seem to want very low levels.
I agree the low levels are a sign of ill health and agree I would not consider anyone healed from this until their levels are back to normal, but still, as canefan is saying, you have to recognize how things work and have a plan to get back to healthy.
Whether you agree the the MP or think it is very dangerous, it is something to just keep in mind, blindly working hard to make your levels high may not be in your best interests ultimately. It may be the wrong order, if you will.
While my doc immediately got concerned with the high vitamin D level, I rejoiced at the score, because I believe it meant that my body was past the point of needing a very low level and I had made an important step along the way toward getting healthy.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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I also did extensive research on MP two years ago and determined I could not be house bound for months and needed to earn a living. The number of successful lyme patients using the MP seemed low and I found more formal information on treating lyme with abx.
Also living in Houston makes it hard to stay out of the sun which the MP requires.
So I continue with the ABX and have just completed round 4 of UV Blood treatment, could need as many as 25 to 30 treatments. I am also looking into biophoton treatments perhaps in the new year.
One of my current focuses is killing the parasites and will add diatomatious earth to my regime next week. I went with Quassia instead of mimosa as recommended by Tropilab. And boy does it taste bitter!
I continue to take a lot of systemic enzymes and I am experiencing a difference especially with the nattakinese and serrapentase.
All the Best, MattH
Posts: 607 | From Houston Texas | Registered: Mar 2011
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