Topic: It's a MIRACLE- Breaking news- got to see this!
Tincup
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posted
Johns Hopkins .. yes.. HO HO Hopkins... has just made a discovery that Lyme disease can be in the L-form and.... have admitted the following...
"Not only are L-form bacteria difficult to culture and therefore study, but this "fried egg" cluster is part of what makes the L-form bacteria resistant to antibiotics, in addition to the fact that they do not have cell walls for commonly used antibiotics to disintegrate."
ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!
They are saying we CAN have a continuing infection after antibiotic treatment!
canefan17
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posted
HAHAHAHA
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
What amazing work Mr. Hopkins. Back of the bus though. We've known this **** FOR AWHILE.
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Tincup
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Now I will go read the rest of the article. It is TWO pages so be sure to note both pages when reading from the website!
Tincup
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posted
Yes.. true cane... but.. they house the IDSA spokesman there and other IDSA ducks.. some on the Guidelines.
This would never have been put out from HOPKINS, had all their ducks been in a row.
They have just dis-proven (blown out of the water) the very foundation of the IDSA's arguement that we are all cured after the IDSA recommended antibiotic treatment.
We can say that all day long and we know it for sure...
But for Ho Ho Hopkins to come forth with it... it IS a miracle.
canefan17
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tincup,
I know. It's just comical that this ish is breaking research for them.
While I sit behind my computer desk and tell him, "DUH!"
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canefan17
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Where doe that article say anything about Hopkins?
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TerryK
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I don't see where they say they have actually cultured borrelia. Maybe it is in their original study? Do you know where we can find the actual study?
I do see where they are admitting that borrelia has an L-form.
edited to add: Seems like the IDSA does not deny that the L-Form exists. They do deny that it is a factor in humans.
I thought McDonald had been showing L-Forms in humans for a long time? I guess the idea is that they may actually listen now?
Thanks, Terry
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posted
Bloomberg School of Public Health is part of Hopkins.
I'd like to see a separate study specifically on Borrelia and L-form bacteria. That is the only way it will get more recognition.
Posts: 819 | From East Coast | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Unfortunately this article gives no focus to Lyme and only references it as a problem amongst
many problems in antibiotics.
This isn't nearly the huge medical turn around we were all hoping for.
However what this article may be able to do is to show the medical world that infesting into drugs
against L-forms in general could be a major money making investment. We all know the only way to
get the medical world to act on something is to demonstrate a mode for financial gain through drug
development.
Surely we will one day have access to new treatment against L-forms in bacteria.
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Tincup
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It is in the Johns Hopkins Newsletter. Look at the top of the page to see that line.
They refer to the researcher as being at Bloomberg... which is the Bloomberg Public School of Health... a part of Hopkins.
posted
Wowza! Here is another quote from the article
"These L-forms of various bacteria may be the underlying reason for chronic resistant and recurring diseases, such as sarcoidosis, various forms of inflammatory bowel diseases and rheumatoid arthritis. Zhang is confident that there will be many practical applications of this discovery."
I agree this is big news coming from this research institution.
I think PLOS ONE is an opensource journal, so we should be able to get this article easily.
Allie
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Amanda
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Wow, thanks for posting!
They say "commonly used antibiotics" won't be effective, since the bacteria don't have cell wall types that are disrupted by most abx.
I guess they do not consider tindimax and flagyl commonly used antibiotics. Aren't these two abx used for bacteria with these types of cell walls?
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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Tincup
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Mixxxxxxxx said.. "This isn't nearly the huge medical turn around we were all hoping for."
Oh, but it is....
It is ground breaking and VERY significant!
Now the IDSA can't say we are not infected after getting the treatment. They can no longer say..
"There is NO credible evidence chronic Lyme exists."
It will impact the IDSA Panel Review, help with doctors under fire... affect (positively) our insurance claims... and do much more!
It is confirming what we've been saying for years... and a BIG duck motel is saying it.
They obviously let this slip out. I can't imagine they intended this to be out there.
canefan17
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posted
grandmother,
They are saying common antibiotics won't work against L-Forms.
We know antibiotics that kill spirochetes. Doxy, etc
They are saying common axb like amox and Penicillan won't work against L-Forms.
Basically they've told US nothing new.
It's good news because more people will open their eyes.
But it's nothing new to you and me.
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canefan17
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So will they try to claim THEY'VE broken through with this new information.
Or will they acknowledge that great doctors/researchers have been saying this ish for years.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote: Now the IDSA can't say we are not infected after getting the treatment. They can no longer say..
"There is NO credible evidence chronic Lyme exists."
Yes, this is great -- particularly since it came from where it did.
But ...
TC, you of all people know that credible evidence has no bearing on what the IDSA says or will say. It hasn't as of yet.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Maybe this will help too with the insurance companies who deny long term treatment.
Posts: 495 | From KY USA | Registered: Dec 2004
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Tincup
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posted
Amanda said.. "I guess they do not consider tindimax and flagyl commonly used antibiotics. Aren't these two abx used for bacteria with these types of cell walls?"
You all are typing faster than I can read and respond! HA!
Hopkins and IDSA have NEVER promoted the use of Tini or Flagyl because they will NOT admit Lyme can be chronic.
They even list these drugs as NOT recommended in the IDSA Guidelines... therefore... insurance won't pay and ducks won't prescribe them.
Here is the list of IDSA antibiotics NOT recommended, from the IDSA Guidelines.
posted
The IDSA will say that is only in the laboratory and NOT in the human body.
They will ask for JH to PROVE that the L-form of Lyme is present in humans.
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Tincup
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Nomo said.. "TC, you of all people know that credible evidence has no bearing on what the IDSA says or will say. It hasn't as of yet."
But that is the point! Coming from US or ones who support us hasn't made a dent in their thick heads. But this is different!
Hopkins IS the epitome of the IDSA .. authors, editors, official spokesmen, etc.. all come from there.. in fact, even Wormser is from there originally... and the old Bumsteere is there quite often spewing his garbage.
They are the ones behind YOU not getting treated .. and are staunch supporters of the IDSA Guidelines and their hooey!
And NOW, they are the ones saying what we've been saying all along.
posted
Interesting. I'm just learning, but from what I've been reading this published finding by a reputable researcher is the equivalent to Columbus proving to the Queen that the world is round: It doesn't change anything other than open up the door for more discoveries.
Congrats on the win guys! Posts: 8 | From SE Mass | Registered: Nov 2009
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Tincup
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posted
Ok you bunch of belly-achers. GEEZE!
Does ANYONE have on their hats that say "I am a very positive person" today?
Obviously not.
I am sorry on the surface this doesn't seem BIG to some of you.. but it is. Maybe you will see the reaching affects this has later on.
I do hope so.
And yes, sapphire... another good point. This gives the insurance companies one less leg to stand on.
Their world is crumbling, as we speak... because the IDSA is being shown to be wrong, wrong, wrong!
Once they (insurance and IDSA) KNOW this... even that it is possible... they can no longer deny treatment based on the possibilty there is no such thing as chronic Lyme disease.
If it came from OUR LLMD's... it would be brushed aside as usual.. but it came out of their mouths this time.
D Bergy
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posted
I think it is good news on one hand, and a sorry state of affairs on the other.
It seems preposterous that the amateurs here have to wait for the smart people to figure out what has been readily apparent to most of us.
I guess that is why I do not pay much attention to developments like this. We already are about two steps ahead of the official science. It is like looking at a rerun of last years breaking news. I am waiting for someone to invent the wheel any time now.
Dan
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sixgoofykids
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Great news!!
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Marnie
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The cell wall form of Bb (CWD = cell wall deficient for newbies) is "finished off" via 2 means:
Osmotic pressure changes OR ultrasound.
Which makes HBO and Rife "believable". HBO and ultrasound ALSO impact "biofilms".
FACT...this is step #2 in "how to destroy a gram negative pathogen".
#1 Destroy the cell wall or prevent it from forming and THEN:
#2 Hit it with osmotic pressure changes/ultrasound.
I suspect barometric pressure changes also impacts the CWD forms...which accounts for pains before a storm, etc.
Given the opportunity (nutrient requirements), Bb is quite capable of rebuilding "his" cell wall.
Inhibiting that cell wall is only the FIRST step.
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Tincup
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"Asking questions or voicing ones thoughts about how this research will be viewed by the IDSA does not make one a belly-acher or a negative person."
Not seeing that I am KIDDING around DOES!
This image below means I am LAUGHING... and it is the same one following the comment I made above.
Amanda
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posted
Well, I'm with Tincup.
I think it is amazing that this research came out of Hopkins, and frankly, more amazing that the IDSA followers weren't there to argue or censor the article before it went public.
Of course many of the IDSA followers are going to argue that it doesn't prove lyme in the human body can be chronic, blah, blah, blah.
But those people most likely will not change their minds anyway.
But for those MDs and researchers that are reviewing the current literature, and are more open, it will mean at least they will begin to contemplate this as a possibility. And when they do, guess what? It will lead them to read the medical literature previous to this research, and maybe now those people will begin to see that that this is a very complex nasty disease, and not "hard to catch, easy to treat".
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Tincup
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Kitty said..
"I'd like to see a separate study specifically on Borrelia and L-form bacteria. That is the only way it will get more recognition."
That has been done and is at or on the way to the publisher. University of New Haven has 5 excellent papers ready to roll.
Add that work to this statement from HO HO.. and we now have 2 Universities confirming McDonald's work and that of other independent researchers.
Keep in mind..
There are NO studies proving the IDSA is right with their theory that there is no active infection in chronic Lyme.
Their catch phrase... There is no convincing evidence that active infection is the cause of the symptoms found in people who have been treated using the IDSA protocol... (I am paraphrasing here)
Well, their catch phrase has more holes in it than swiss cheese... and they can't keep saying it without being SUED big time.
Stupid can only get you so far. Pretty soon law suits can and will evolve.
And although we have Lyme and can be treated and get better...
It is unlike the IDSA's problem... because there is no cure for stupid.
Tincup
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Amanda said.. "I think it is amazing that this research came out of Hopkins, and frankly, more amazing that the IDSA followers weren't there to argue or censor the article before it went public."
You are right! How they messed up on this.. I have no clue.
I've known IDSA/Hopkins reps to go marching into a newspaper office and demand equal time/space when anything even remotely positive to our side has been published.
IckyTicky
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posted
But are they also saying that antibiotics are useless, therefore we don't need to be on them long term? Or did I miss something?
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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Tincup
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The article says... "E. coli L-form colonies appeared in 48-72 hrs, were mucoid, and exhibited typical ``fried egg'' morphology, consisting of peripheral growth on the surface of the agar with a dense center embedded into the agar (Fig. 1A)."
That is the findings of the CT studies too... and they did Lyme, not E. Coli. Good thing they BOTH were the same.
Sooooooooooo... they are changing into L-forms within 72 hours.
Tincup
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Icky.. I am still digesting the actual study... will respond once I "get it".
Cotton... You said.. "I feel bad for McDonald and other heroic researchers who haven't had funding and have been largely ignored."
Me too! Especially Dr. McDonald. But, hopefully we can go back in time, since this is now confirmed by the "big guys" and get them credit where credit is due.
Ho Ho should NOT be getting the credit for this... which is what I am working on now.
In between taking breaks and being here.
This stuff is DEEP.. and my attention span can only take small doses at a time.
posted
So, this paper does not have the words "Borrelia", "Lyme" or "spirochete" anywhere. Is that ok?
It's in the press release, but not in the actual manuscript.
hmmmmm.
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Tincup
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The article states...
"Despite the discovery of L-form bacteria in 1935, the molecular mechanisms underlying L-form formation and survival have remained obscure.
This lack of progress is mainly because of the unstable nature of L-form bacteria, the variability of the models used for their generation, and the unavailability of modern molecular biology tools before the 1980s when L-form research was largely abandoned.
In this study, we took advantage of microarray technology and an E. coli deletion mutant library.
These tools were used to perform whole genome-wide gene expression analysis and mutant library screens to provide insight into the molecular basis of L-form formation using the E. coli L-form as a model.
>>> The major findings of this study are the identification of pathways and genes involved in cell envelope stress, DNA repair, iron homeostasis, outer membrane biogenesis, and drug efflux/ABC transporters being involved in L-form formation and survival (Fig. 5). <<<
This study represents the first systematic genetic analysis of L-form bacteria and provides important insights into the molecular basis of L-form bacteria."
`````````````````````````````````````````````````
My assumption is... the "fried egg" description they are using could be describing the biofilms?
Not sure.. so if anyone has a thought on that, please share.
Although I too am now wondering if spirochetes are morphing into L-form within 72 hours and abx aren't found to be effective on that form, what does one use?
Posts: 648 | From northeast | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Cottonbrain, I don't think you have a cotton brain:
``Is it possible that Hopkins released this info because they are hoping that big pharma will donate huge amounts of grant money to further their research?''
Well, you read the last line:
"It is possible, with our discovery of the L-form genes to develop new antibiotics and more effective ones that can be used with current ones as well as new vaccines to...allow these forms to be eliminated by the immune system ," he said."
Vaccines can be good money -- given good marketing, hospitable host countries and hospitable host sheeple!
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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TerryK
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Oh yeah TC, I forgot to put a laughing face under mine.
TerryK
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Amanda wrote: But for those MDs and researchers that are reviewing the current literature, and are more open, it will mean at least they will begin to contemplate this as a possibility.
Good point! I think that is a real possibility!
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canefan17
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Yay. In 20 years we'll all be good to go.
/counts down the days
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