posted
So, a couple days ago I posted I felt the best I ever had. I posted a day or two after we rotated my abx and I am now on Doxy, Rifampin, Nystatin (pills), Plaquenil. Well, either I'm going crazy, or the antibiotics are doing their work. Probably both. I'm on Klonopin/Ativan for panic, but I haven't had a panic attack in a while.
These episodes are new to me, and they are scaring me as much as they are scaring my family. The neuropsych bull**** is the worst. I haven't had the rage stuff, but I wonder if it comes from the same part of brain as the panic stuff. As twisted as it sounds, I'd rather have the rage over the panic as the panic just makes me feel like I'm going to die. I felt partially in control, and then I'd feel like I had no control. My memory of the last episode is a bit fuzzy, but I remember most things... sort of like how you wake up from a nightmare and have to think hard about it. My brain has been messing with me the last couple days.
Anyway, I was cleaning the kitchen, and while cleaning the kitchen I was feeling real angry (I was cleaning like a mad-man with OCD). My family was criticizing me for "never" helping out, and the kitchen is spotless. I was not feeling good physically or mentally while cleaning, I felt dizzy suddenly, sat down for a minute or so, and then I decided to take the car out. I didn't know where I was going. I backed into my mom's car not noticing it was behind me, but it didn't cause damage. I then pulled forward and knocked some things around in the garage, but luckily no harm done. My parents came out, took the keys from me, and said some things I don't recall. I hit my dad, although my recollection of doing that is fuzzy. I didn't recall it at all until my mom mentioned it. After my brain calmed down a bit, I was able to finish cleaning the kitchen.
Anyways, this was acute for a couple of hours, but I had an out of control feeling the whole day. Our bird died today, and I thought that I killed it with my negative energy (a bit delusional I have realized). I'm doing ok right now, but I do not feel normal. My thinking is quite impaired, and typing this is taking a while. I am afraid of going to sleep. I have other nights where I am afraid of going to sleep, but I am more afraid right now.
My parents wanted to take me to a psych hospital, and they are also quite upset with me. I said I want to ride it out, but I'm also a bit worried about getting stuck in an episode. I did take my abx tonight even though I was afraid to. Other than offering to drive me to a psych hospital, I feel that I have very little support right now.
What do I do? I think it's just a herx, but it needs to stop!
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
I forgot to mention other things.... I'm very cold and very sensitive to the cold weather right now. My heart and muscles are bothering me as well, but magnesium helped.
Maybe it would be best for me to get evaluated, but I don't want to go to a hospital and risk getting sick with something on top of this. As many times as I have been this past year, I hate hospitals. I probably just need rest, but I am afraid.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
are you doing anything for detox? I took so many abx without detox and got real sick. For me, I have to balance the abx and the detox or things go bad...
Posts: 48 | From california | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
I've been trying to avoid sugary foods and such, and eat fresh meat and vegetables, but I haven't been on a super strict detox diet.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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Are you doing detox baths? I think that's what Lymetime meant. It helps get the toxins out. Toxins can cause episodes like you had. So can babesia.
-------------------- The advice I give, should not be considered medical advice. My opinion comes from years of research and experience. Posts: 233 | From Somewhere | Registered: Sep 2009
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Shosty
Unregistered
posted
Stop the antibiotics and then after a few days, you can start back up on them at a lower dose, or, perhaps even better,start up on a different one that does not hit you so hard.
Getting some kind of anti-psychotic med to have on hand is not a bad idea, either.
One of my family members became psychotic on tetracycline. The Lyme doctor told me to keep her on it, that it was a sign of the meds working and the Lyme getting "stirred up."
After a couple of months, I no longer cared about Lyme as much as getting my family member back. We met with our family doctor, took her off the meds, and she was herself in a few days.
Sometimes, there is a reaction to meds that is not a herx, but a side effect or even allergy. In our family member, we believe it was drug-induced lupus, because at the time, her lupus tests were sky high and definitive, and they weren't a few months later.
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
Rage, anger and psychotic episodes could simply be because you are having a hard time dealing with such an awful chronic illness.
Not saying it is not a herx or lyme related, but it is possible that it is just a reaction to dealing with and living with such an awful illness.
People never think this way for some reason. Most always blame it on the reactions from the meds or disease itself; but I think this is a valid possiblity. It might just be that its hard to cope with this dang illness.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Well, I went to the E.R. this morning when I woke up feeling woozy. I drove myself as nobody was home, but it's not a state I like to drive in. My body temperature was 93 degrees upon admission, and I felt quite confused and couldn't verbalize well. It scared the crap out of me when they tried to get my temperature with several different thermometers, some returning an error. Bloodwork was pretty much fine, but potassium was a little low.
They sent someone from a psychiatry center, and strange enough, she knew my doctor and talked about how great he was. After evaluation, she thought it was just Lyme doing its thing. I denied admission to a psychiatric center.
They did a CT, and it said: "Well-defined sclerotic lesion is seen in the left frontal skull, measuring 10-mm with well-defined graphic margin, likely represent benign etiology such as osteoma or bone island."
E.R. doc says this lesion is nothing to worry about. I have had an MRI before, and no such lesion was mentioned to me.
My temp came back to 98.6 after a few hours. My Lyme doc thinks it's possibly thyroid and wants me to take temperature upon awakening.
Long day, but I'm feeling much better now. I am in TX, and I was quite surprised that the docs were reinforcing that it's probably Lyme. I actually tried to keep quiet about it, because I know how it's a curse word to some doctors.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
Oh, and what's best for removing toxins from the body? I feel toxic. I'm not taking anything to help remove toxins.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
These sorts of episodes are common for me. Are you treating for Bart?
Very common. . but really hard, too. I feel for you. Epsom salt bath, exercise until you sweat, sweat, sweat and get some detox homeopathics or herbs (like burbur) and that will help.
Seriously. You are NOT alone in this episodes. I would be more than happy to talk with your family (or email), or better yet, my husband understands them from their perpective even better.
hang in there.
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
The article talks about Herx deaths after using drugs against other type of borrelia infection (called Borrelia recurrentis).
Herxes are not to play with, and I would try to avoid herxes. Your kidneys can get harmed, gall bladder, liver...
Take binders. Don't play with a herx.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Louse-borne relapsing fever, caused by Borrelia recurrentis spirochetes, has been responsible for massive epidemics in North Africa, the Middle East, and Europe during this century.
The epidemic at the end of World War II involved some 10 million people.1 There is a potential for future epidemics wherever war and the movement of refugees or immigrants threaten a breakdown in public health.
Since the mortality rate for untreated louse-borne relapsing fever has reached 70 percent in some epidemics,1 antimicrobial treatment is essential.
Although effective in eliminating spirochetes, this treatment precipitates a potentially life-threatening febrile inflammatory reaction in a majority of patients.1,2
Fever plus other characteristic symptoms after chemotherapy was first described in secondary syphilis and has become known as the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction.3,4
This reaction has been described in a variety of bacterial infections, including brucellosis, leptospirosis, Lyme disease, and relapsing fevers.
The clinical and pathophysiologic features of the reaction closely resemble those of a classic endotoxin reaction,2 but unlike other types of acute sepsis syndrome, the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction is predictable and less variable in its intensity.
One to two hours after treatment with penicillin or tetracycline, patients with louse-borne relapsing fever become restless and apprehensive and intense rigors suddenly develop that last 10 to 30 minutes.
The temperature, respiratory and pulse rates, and blood pressure all rise sharply. During the next few hours there is profuse sweating, a fall in blood pressure, and a slow decline in temperature.1,2
The reaction is distressing to the patient and has a case fatality rate of approximately 5 percent.1
Just before symptoms of the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction develop there is a substantial increase in circulating levels of tumor necrosis factor (TNF-), interleukin-6, and interleukin-8.5 We have been impressed by the similarities in clinical features and pathophysiologic and cytokine disturbances between the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction seen in louse-borne relapsing fever and severe sepsis from other causes.
The sepsis syndrome, or "systemic inflammatory response syndrome,"6 has a case fatality rate of up to 60 percent despite treatment with antimicrobial agents and supportive measures.
Progression from sepsis to life-threatening shock is initiated by endotoxin released from the cell walls of gram-negative bacteria and by other viral, bacterial, protozoal, and fungal pyrogens or toxins.
posted
I meant to say bartonella can cause episodes like that. I typed out "babesia" instead.
-------------------- The advice I give, should not be considered medical advice. My opinion comes from years of research and experience. Posts: 233 | From Somewhere | Registered: Sep 2009
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-------------------- The advice I give, should not be considered medical advice. My opinion comes from years of research and experience. Posts: 233 | From Somewhere | Registered: Sep 2009
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I appreciate your input, but that info does kind of scare me. I didn't take my abx this morning, and I am thinking about taking tonight off as well now. I might sleep well not having to worry so much anyway. This infection has physically and mentally beat me down, and sometimes I don't know how to differentiate between something minor or severe.
That being said, nobody seemed too worried about this. The E.R. docs and nurses didn't seem to think much about the low body temp. I've had fevers from J-H reactions, but, as far as I know, there was no fever involved this time. I took my temp before I went to sleep, but I guess I could have had a fever while sleeping. The low body temps are more worrisome to me, but I've been told not to worry.
My doctor said it was ok to continue treatment. The previous couple rounds of antibiotics, I'd wimp out and was told to take a break for a few days. I want to get better, and I really wish I wouldn't wimp out when the antibiotics start doing their work. However, my reactions can be so strong, it does feel like playing with fire.
What would be more helpful is recommendations for products/brands of binders. From my book:
What products and brands should I use? I have all the info in front of me, but it's information overload right now.
I will pick up some Epsom Salt tomorrow, but any other suggestions? I need to get this under control.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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I feel for you...i have had episodes like that..have lyme and bad bartonella...my parents too wanted to admit me to a psych hospital too and are not supportive....i think you did the right thing.
BTW... i have been in a psych hospital before when i thought i was crazy before i was diagnosed with lyme and had all sorts of physical stuff and I will tell you...you won't get your medical issues addressed there and it will depress you more.
I told my parents this but they said they refuse to believe my "behavior" has anything to do with lyme and I need to speak to someone first and be admitted and then get medical help after.
If you are physically and cognitively able and don't have support, unfortunately you have to do as much for yourself as your can and keep reaching out for help and use the supports you do have,..
i know easier said than done but sometimes parents and people who are unsupportive can do more harm than good and we have enough stress from this disease and stress does make it worse.
All my best!
-------------------- Sick for 20 yrs+,dx'd 10 yrs ago fibro/cfs & hashimotos.dx 4 yrs ago w/neurolyme,recent adrenal failure, recurrent spinal cord injury,probable ankylosing spondylitis. Unable to get treatment & severe Cognitive, psych & physical symptoms progressing. Posts: 82 | From az but moving to ft lauderdale, florida= plantation. fl | Registered: Aug 2009
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Kday,
I note that you're taking a psychotropic drug.
These can cause psychotic rages, as well as other psychiatric problems.
Please discuss the side effects with your LLMD.
Since you're taking quite a lot of medical drugs, perhaps some B vitamins would help. They support the nervous system, etc., and are used up by most medicines.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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