Topic: Wny is IV method for ABX easiery to toleratie?
springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
I just can not figure this out.
I can take an IV drip of a abx so easily but if I take an oral abx that is the same med even and of lower dose even....I can not tolerate it...
???
Does anyone know the difference in how they work and why orals would cause much more difficult tolerance.?
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
Hi Spring,
there could be a lot of different reasons. Soemtimes, the fillers in the pills can cause a few poeple problems. Also, impurities can get into pills, especially generic meds, and these can cause problems for senstivie individuals. The IV wouldn't have those problems.
or it could be that your GI track is very sensitive and gets inflamed. If you have leaky gut syndrome, then food particles can get directly into your inner cavities, and that can cuase all kinds of various problems, from pain, to nausea to allergic type reactions.
If the docs take you off IV, you could consider doing shots of Bicillin, or rocephin...
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
I have though about the fillers and such and wonder about that.
It is such an obvious difference and I just do not get it..
What do you mean about Food Particles. Wouldnt that happen if I had leaky gut whether I was taking oral abx or doing IV abx?
Is there some special route that the orals have to take that might be part of the issue ??
There has to be something.
My doctors keeps saying I am herxing.. and thats it... but I keep asking about this issue and WHY I do not feel that way when I get the same maed IV.
They do not have the answer for me.. Not even an idea... I just get hmmmmmmmm
I will think about the shots.. for sure.. when i stop IV. I mean I can not stay on IV forever..
Can I?
I am surprised my insurance has not said a peep and I in my 4th month of IV.
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Yeah, but is your insurance actually PAYING the bills Spring?
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
spring,
Stay on IV as long as you need it, can tolerate it, and your drs will rx it!! And, of course, insurance is an issue, too. But, if they're paying for it, keep going. 4 months is not that long really.
It's not uncommon to stay on IV for 6 months, a year, occasionally even longer. Dr. B once said that they used to have people on IV rocephin for a couple of years, and they got better---but that you can't do that anymore. I'm sure due to the pressure from medical boards and insurance companies.
And the difference between IV and oral, there are lots of reasons, as others have said. Plus, with orals, you get more Candida. Although IV can do that, too, it seems to be less so, because it's not through the digestive tract.
I'm sure the fillers & binders may be an issue, plus generics not having to be up to the quality of brand name.
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I think it's because the IV goes directly into your blood stream. It doesn't go through your stomach. Maybe the process of the drug being broken down in the stomach makes one sick.
However, I am taking Tigecycline next week which I hear makes you very nauseated - so who knows.
Posts: 86 | From California | Registered: Oct 2009
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
I got nauseous on IV in the beginning but not now and that is not the issue.
I feel just horrible on Oral abx. Like just very ill and I curl in a ball on my bed and i just feel so fatigued and out of it and shaky and in pain and i feel poisoned.
People kept saying it is a herx. But it happens in the few hours after taking the med. Also since I DO NOT get it with the same drug via IV> that means it is NOT a herx.!!
There is something going on with this and I have gone thru a lot of Sufferng thinking it is a herx when i now think it was not..
That is frustrating. And if I have to transition back to orals.. which I am trying to put off as long as i can.....
I will have the same issue... Ughhh..
So.... well.. i found out today my doc is not willing to rx one of my two IV drugs anymore..
I am not so happy about that..
So well.. we will see.
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
I did so well on IV antibiotics as far as getting well was concerned. I did have horrible diahrrea, trembling, sweating, etc. but that was worth it cause I got well so quickly. But it didn't last because I didn't stay on it long enough. No one then realized I had LD.
Then I tried oral abx and like you became too sick to tolerate them. Maybe it was just herxes that were too intense for me to bear, but doctor said no more.
So now I am trying the bicillin shots. I have no trouble at all with my stomach. I do take live acidophollus and Kapidex. The only side effects seem to be overwhelming and profound fatigue. And I continue to have serious brain fog.
If this doesn't work then I, too, am looking at IV abx and probably for quite a long while. I just pray that I can continue to afford treatment.
Keep us posted on what you decide to do.
-------------------- DOCTOR: "I don't think you are sick." PATIENT: "We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't think you are a doctor." Posts: 697 | From Northern California | Registered: Jul 2009
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
Hi.. Farra.. How long did you do IV the first time you mentioned?
I am concerned about how long I am going to be able to stay on them in order to not relapse..
I am going to stick with it as long as I can and get my doctor to keep writing RX.
I can tell he is getting more anxious to stop me and said he has concerns about long term side affects and c diff etc..
I dont know.. Every doc can be so different.. Maybe I will have to end up finding a different doc who will be ok with longer term...
If it was up to me.. i would do all IV abx and all treatments i can via IV. .
What a huge difference.. For me..
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
This is round 2 for me on IV and for me it's a trade off..My stomach isn't getting slammed with abx. My number 1 symptoms all along has been nausea and vomiting, so by doing IV and less orals it allows my stomach to take a break from the drugs.
I would not say that IV is easy. I went with a hickman port which i can get wet but doesn't have any needle cathaters in it. Still I spent 2-3 hours 2 times a day infusing. I have to deal with crappy home health agencies that don't send all my supplies or the right supplies.
I personally get very tired from the infusions. I used to feel great afterward, but this round 2 has been much harder as I am much sicker this time around.
I would say if you're going to do IV and you're looking for significant changes I would measure the C4a, CD57, and cbc. Last time around my cd 57 was 39 and I stopped IV when it got to 106. That took 15 months. If I had my way I would have kept going for another 6-8 months. However, we were worried about infections.
a year later I completely relapsed to non functioning. My cd57 dropped to 28. My C4a is 34,000 and should be about 1500, and my white blood cell count is high and red blood cell count is low. I am not going off this IV until I get my CD 57 back up to 150.
Make sure you have aggressively treated co-infections before IV or it's a waste. A year of rifamhpin and alinia for bartnella will have fully allowed your RBC to completely clear out. 4 months on bart is 1 rbc cycle but we need a full year to fully clear out the bart.
Any way hope this helps. IV is easier on the stomach but harder on the brain and emotions. It's all a trade off with lyme but we will all slowly get well. It can and did happen to me and I know plenty of others who are now well.
Posts: 484 | From Burlingame, Ca | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
spring... I opened this to make sure you were OK!!!! Your topic title indicated maybe you were having serious problems!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
Hi Tutu..
Thanks so much. I am ok.. I just had a horrible reaction to an oral med that I can take easily when it is IV. But my doc is resistant to letting me keep doing it IV..
I was just trying to really figure out why I have the horrible reaction to oral but can take IV so easily and even at double or more of the dosing.?
BuT> I am OK>>
THANKS For thinking about me...
BLESSINGS
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
I would say keep trying to get your dr to rx IV. And if he stops being willing to, find someone else who will---given your situation.
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