Topic: Does ANYONE not get a positive Babesia WA-1 titer from LabCorp?
seekhelp
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posted
Ok, out of curiousity, I have to ask this. I have seen positives on this test from many here including Lymetwister, Feelfit, and others. I have had positives repeatedly too. We may very well have it and have plenty of symptoms.
I recall LymeMD saying in his blog a lot of his patients test positive for WA-1 through LabCorp. This lab only does an IgG titer for this strain. They do IgM and IgG for Microti, which for me is always negative.
Could this WA-1 be highly cross-reactive w/something and spinning off endless positives? Any LLMD testimonials? Is this real or are we chasing our tails on this lab?
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posted
Personally, I would move on from this question and if you have babesia symptoms, just treat them. My husband tested negative for babesia but had clinical symptoms. He was treated aggressively for the babesia and has gone from very disalbed to about 90% now.
It would be nice if Lyme treatment and co-infections were nice and tidy. It's not. The value of an experienced LLMD is they diagnose and treat based on symptoms not just lab values.
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seekhelp
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Parisa, I'm definitly treating it with Mepron/Zith. I'm just curious from a bigger picture perspective.
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btmb03
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Seek I had my Lyme + co's tested thru Lapcorp, I was neg for babesia but I'll have to check which one..will post tomorrow.
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seekhelp
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Probably Microti Btmb03. Your LLMD doesn't test for WA-1 from what I've heard. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Amanda
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I get negatives at LAbcorp.
I was so sick initially I was hospitilized for 5 days (although at the time they didn't run any tick tests because they were clueless as to what was wrong with me)
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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seekhelp
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Amanda, you're sure it was negative for WA-1 specifically?
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posted
Interesting question. I plan (or at least hope to) get WA-1 tested in several weeks, so I'll see if it's positive or negative.
Question though... is WA-1 exclusively a west coast (US) bacteria? It should primarily be west coast, but I think many of LymeMD's patients are east coast.
Cross reactivity could explain it, but then the question is why so many people are showing cross reactivity. Is it reacting to a different co-infection, or a different species of babesia?
Posts: 584 | From NY | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
I tested positive for babesia and my llmd said I was the first one of his patients to test positive for it
-------------------- Casey 1/7/10-Diagnosed with Lyme but got it in July 2008 and possibly 15 plus years ago http://www.crazylyme.com Posts: 105 | From Aubrey, Texas | Registered: Nov 2009
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Hoosiers51
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Lemon-Lyme,
People are testing positive for WA-1 and duncani all over the country. I think it was LymeMD that said about half his patients that have babesia have the WA-1/duncani.
The question is, if there are a few very similar strains that are all showing positive for WA-1, or if it really is the same strain that all these people have. Who knows.
Apparently many species of animal carry babesia, so why not humans. Note that babesia microti is not actually a babesia, it's a theileria. (see Wikipedia for the distinction).
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Tincup
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The Labcorp tests state on them the ducani does not show up if it is microti... and vise versa. No cross reaction.
Focus is owned by Quest, so you have to work with your local Quest lab or your doctor has to have an account with Focus to get tested there.
Best, Timaca
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seekhelp
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Timaca, you're going to be shocked, BUT guess what place LabCorp sent the blood to for the WA-1 test? Yup, FOCUS DIAGNOSTICS in CA. Now, this doesn't answer my question yet if this test just spins off endless positives and little clinical meaning.
I have read WA-1 can cross-react to a degree with Toxoplasma Gondii, which many,many people are exposed to through cats. I'm not sure of the validity of this as it's IDSA verbage. We know that one. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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btmb03
Unregistered
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You were right seek, my former LLMD only tested for babesia microti. Will have to ask my current one re: this issue in the future.
Hope you get some answers!! Hang in there!
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timaca
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Well.....I do think Focus is a good lab for most things (but not for enterovirus). If you click on Babesia WA1 you'll get a bit of explanation that it does not cross react with Babesia microti.
Why not run a test for Toxoplasma Gondii? That may help you. If those results are suspicious at all, then have your doctor contact this lab, or have you blood tested at this lab:
If toxo isn't an issue, then go with treatment for the babesia and see what happens.
Best, Timaca
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Amanda
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Seek- yes, I'm sure it was for WA-1.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: Timaca, you're going to be shocked, BUT guess what place LabCorp sent the blood to for the WA-1 test? Yup, FOCUS DIAGNOSTICS in CA.
Hmm... I see listed under the test description this: This test is not approved for New York patient testing.
So I guess NY people (like myself) can't use LabCorp for that test?
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seekhelp
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Timaca, I tested positive for Toxoplasma IgG - normal 0.00 - 0.90 ; my result = 1.35. Then 5 months later, I was negative on the IgG. Weird.
Always negative on the IgM Toxoplasma test. I'm absolutely lost why LabCorp / Focus didn't make an IgM portion to the WA-1 test.
It's hopeless as ID docs don't even know what WA-1 is. That includes the world-class one I'm seeing that you're aware of Timaca. Sad state of affairs.
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timaca
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Lemon-Lyme~ I don't know the answer to your question. You can call Focus Diagnostic Client Services: (800) 445-4032
Seekhelp~ I would ask your doctor to please call the Toxo lab listed above and explain all your test results. Include why you want to make sure toxo is not an issue for you (you want to make sure it is not cross reacting with babesia WA-1).
The lab may suggest testing your blood there to make sure Toxo is not an issue for you. My understanding is that IgG titers do drop over time if the pathogen is no longer an issue. So, for your IgG titer to drop in 5 months is not surprising to me. As I've treated my various pathogens, my IgG antibody titers have dropped.
Best, Timaca
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posted
I called Focus today, and they said their test was not available to NY people unless they somehow got special permission... involved a lot of forms from your doctor, state agency, etc. or something similar... so I doubt any NY people can really get it from them.
If LabCorp send to another lab for NY people (doubtful), or someone else offers it, I guess it's an option. I checked Mayo's catalog and couldn't find duncani listed, so I assume they are out (sunrise labs can use them).
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seekhelp
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I don't know why but I just think something funny is going on with this WA-1 test.
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IckyTicky
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I tested neg. for Babs through Labcorp
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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seekhelp
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Ickyticky, Microti or WA-1?
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sutherngrl
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Okay, I don't know.....microti or WA-1. I do know that it was through labcorp; and my doc said it showed that I possibly had a "partial immunity" to babs.
I have no idea what that means, and at the time, I didn't have enough brain to ask.
He still treated me for 2 months with Malarone, and I actually felt slightly better while on it. Still don't know if I have it or not.
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cactus
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I am now testing neg on WA-1 through Focus.
Initially, I tested neg for WA-1 and pos for microti through Focus.
After 8 mos of babs treatment, my microti test became neg and WA-1 became positive.
After another year and a half - both babs tests came back neg, WA-1 and microti.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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seekhelp
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That's crazy Cactus when the two tests are supposedly non cross-reactive!! That's great they're negative now. This testing is some odd crap IMO. lol.
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sutherngrl
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Wow Cactus, that makes it seem pointless to even get tested.
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cactus
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I don't know, I wouldn't say it's pointless...
My LLMD seemed to think that I had both microti and WA-1 all along, but that as we knock down one infection, another can become more active, to the point that it shows up on testing.
She compared it to peeling back the layers of an onion.
So - her thought was that we knocked out the microti in 8 mos time, then had to work on WA-1.
WA-1 took a lot longer to beat!
That seems to fit, as many people think that microti is easier to beat than WA-1.
It was a happy day when I got neg test results back, and that paperwork actually had a place of honor on our fridge for a few months.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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feelfit
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how did you treat the WA-1 Cactus?
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cactus
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We used different combos - mostly Mepron combos, some malarone combos.
So either Mepron or Malarone, plus one macrolide (Biaxin, Zith, or Ketek), plus one more abx (doxy, omnicef, etc). Always at least 3 meds.
We rotated combos every few mos.
Tried to add in artemisinin and/or Plaquenil but I could not tolerate those.
We would treat until symptoms were gone for a few mos, (usually 6 - 8 mos), then I would move on from babs treatment to only Lyme or Bart.
I relapsed several times after about 4 mos off babs treatment, so we would go back on one of the Mep/Mal combos again.
After each relapse, the herxing was less intense, and symptoms seemed to resolve quicker.
It's been one year now since I've been off of all babs treatment, and no babs symptoms!
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Seek, I can't answer your question specifically, but can relay my experience of babesia vs. toxoplasmosis.
Both toxoplasmosis and babesia are protozoa/parasites, as I'm sure you know.
I tested Igenex equivocal for babesia microti. Tested pcr positive to toxoplasmosis from Vipdx (Garth Nicholson's preferred test and xmrv testsite). At the same time tested Igg/Igm negative for toxoplasmosis through quest diagnostics. Was retested by Vipdx for toxoplasma whole blood and serum pcr again, and tested positive. Spoke with them at length, and they confirmed positive for toxo.
I was treated for toxoplasmosis and definitely felt a response. Artemisinin is susceptible to both babesia and toxoplasmosis. Add in the fry test that found some new toxo-like protozoa, and I'm not sure if anything is accurate.
Currently, we are treating babesia. I don't know if I have babesia, toxoplasmosis, the new mystery fry protozoa...but it's something. I don't trust the tests, and find most to be inacurate or cross-react with various pathogens.
Just my humble opinion...
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seekhelp
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OK, more info....
From MDL on WA-1
Clinical significance: Babesiosis is a zoonotic disease which requires transmission from an animal reservoir to humans via a tick vector. In the northeastern United States, the black-legged deer tick Ixodes scapularis, the same vector that transmits Lyme disease, is the principal vector for the transmission of the etiologic agent of Babesiosis, Babesia microti.
Babesia species from rodents, primarily the white-footed deer mouse but also the field mouse, vole, rat, and chipmunk, are transmitted to humans during tick bites in endemic areas. Diagnoses of Babesiosis are understandably more prevalent during periods of tick activity such as spring and summer.
Babesia shares a close affinity with malaria parasites in its intraerythrocytic niche in the host, which can and has led to its incorrect identification as Plasmodium spp., the malaria agent.
Human infections occurring on the West Coast of the United States have been caused by Babesia-like organisms designated WA-1 type Babesia (where the prefix "WA" stands for Washington State in which the first human case was described). Based upon sequencing data, WA-1 type Babesia shows more affinity to small babesial isolates from dogs and wildlife in California than to B. microti.
Although WA1 is morphologically similar to B. microti, several differences were noted, including antigenic cross-reactivity, virulence in hamsters (100% fatality within 10 days), and Southern restriction fragment length polymorphisms of DNA digests.
All of these data indicated that WA1 is a new human pathogen that is distinct from B. microti. Subsequent studies examining the ribosomal subunit sequences along with comparison against other piroplasm-derived sequences showed that WA1 was most closely related to B. gibsoni, a pathogen of dogs that produces a chronic condition with poor susceptibility to antimicrobial treatment. Phylogenetically, WA1 falls within a cluster that includes T. equi (B. equi) and the known lymphoproliferative Theileria piroplasms.
And the most informative article I've seen on WA-1 from NEJM:
[ 01-18-2010, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: seekhelp ]
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seekhelp
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Overall, it seems if you have WA-1, the only hope of finding a LLMD to treat it correctly is the big man in FL - Dr. S. His name just pops up over and over and over in searches. He seems to be the world expert in co-infections.
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seekhelp
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Up..any other thoughts on WA-1 and the NEJM article? I am SHOCKED this article was written in 1995. After looking on the web, I can't find any other articles with detail. Shows how much the IDSA cares about WA-1. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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feelfit
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I don't like the line in the body of your message where it is speaking of WA-1 and dogs...esp this:
" a chronic condition with poor suseptability to antimicrobial treatment"
Off to read the NEJM article...but don't really want to scare myself much more Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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feelfit
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can't get the article from your link Seek? help.
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seekhelp
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Yes, Feelfit, that line about dogs scared the crap out of me too. What is this BS we're dealing with seriously? My ID doc is world known and doesn't even know of WA-1. That scares me as it shows this diease is foreign to the world.
Both links are working fine for me. I'm not sure what's wrong.
You can Google the NEJM article. It's called 'Infection with Babesia-Like Organism in Northern California." I hope that helps.
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feelfit
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Thanks Seek,
Will comment later...
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feelfit
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Huh, read the NEJM article and you're right, very disturbing. Especially since it WAS written in 1995 and as you have stated, scant other info is available.
The NEJM article doesn't address treatment modalities used on the infected men...all had spleen involvement as well. yuck.
One would *think* that ID doctors would be all over something like this...research etc.
Just makes me feel like i'm up the proverbial creek w/o a paddle.
Oh yeah, scary about the one pt. who presented with heart problems too...
Cactus thanks for sharing how you beat this back at least there is a little hope for us WA-1's.
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Wow, some stuff in this journal really caught my eye.
"Patient 2 was a 31-year-old Air Force flight engineer who participated in field-training exercises in San Bernardino County 11 days before he became ill. He had also taken two camping trips in the Sierra Nevada mountains (Fresno County) in the month before the onset of disease."
"Patient 4 was a 41-year-old man from Kern County who was evaluated for a several-day history of influenza-like symptoms. Relevant exposure history included a four-day camping and hunting trip in the Sierra Nevada mountains (Mono County) that ended eight days before he became ill."
Now, I was living and working in the Sierra Nevada mountains before I got sick. I worked about 5 days a week outdoors, in shorts and t-shirt. Everything started with similar symptoms to the patients in the article. I had heart (SVTs) and blood pressure problems too. I get horrible arrhythmias sometimes (not caught through testing) and I am 23. I had severely enlarged lymph nodes in my groin when it all started, and I don't see anything in the journal that mentions lymph nodes.
I don't think I've ever been tested for WA-1, but I'll have to check. However CDC+ IFA and WB through Igenex for Lyme. Never had a blot through LabCorp.
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seekhelp
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Wow kday, I'd jump on doing that test. Did you test for Bartonella too since you had the enlarged lymph nodes?
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i sure hope so. if they dont find a positive through labcorp, im gonna have to dish out $400 to send bloodwork to igenex because my doctor thinks i have it. She swears by igenex.
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I tested negative on the Bartonella Antibody Panel, but my doctor suspects it. I tried Cipro, but only for about a month (maybe a little more) because I felt cognitively impaired, my gut was killing me, and my psych symptoms were out of hand. I ended up on a lot of benzos, and I am still on them.
I was tested for Babesia microti PCR through LabCorp (negative). Is this different than WA-1? I didn't see "WA-1" on LabCorps website.
I'd also like to add that after I got off work, I would go mountain biking. My average mountain bike ride was about 20-30 miles through the Sierra Nevada mountains (I did this about 4 times a week). I was highly active and was outdoors close to 7 days a week. I haven't exercised since being ill. I am off treatment now because I was doing much, much worse, and I couldn't cope. I was going to start just Levaquin, but insurance doesn't want to pay for the med.
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feelfit
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Kday- Microti is a totally different strain.
WA-1 is also known as Babesia Duncani....LabCorp runs the test, however, both Seekhelp and I had problems with LabCorp finding the right 'code' for it....I waited over an hour b4 they figured it out....I think that Seek did too.
You may want to call LabCorp before hand and get the proper code to eliminate the waiting and frustration.
Sorry treatment is so rough for you....I've been at it for over 2 years and still having a very rough time too.....never give up!
Feelfit
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They actually lied to me and gave me the wrong codes. I printed the fax (lab slip) I received from my Doctor's office, and it's for microti. I specifically asked them to make sure it wasn't microti. Apparently I was annoying them.
I called again and nobody can find the code. Can someone PM it to me or something? They are clueless at LabCorp.
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seekhelp
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Kday, the code is #807177. Yeah, they aren't the brightest lights there. ) I have a feeling even LLMDs ars clueless about this at times.
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seekhelp
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I came to a sickening realization today that confirms what TInCup once stated. I saw an ID doc willing to treat for my WA-1 and he scoured all the publications in PubMed and other sources. At the end, I was told there is absolutely NO literature indicating how one treats this parasite.
That's so alarming. I asked why. He said sadly the powers that be just don't care and don't take the time to do research. My question is how did LabCorp develop/sell a test for an illness that doesn't have any awareness in our country?
Who is to say Mepron/Zithromax even has effect on WA-1? We all really are flying solo with these illnesses. Lonely territory.
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Hoosiers51
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For me, Mepron/Zithromax seems to have "an effect" on whatever piroplasm (babesia, theileria, etc) I'm carrying around....but I don't think it's curative. I've realize that for me, Mepron/Zith is not the answer, so I basically just don't bother with it anymore. Other options seem better, like Malarone, Q/C, rotating things.
I think it's gonna just take a combo of things, pulsing, persistence, etc.
Cryptolepsis is seeming like a good option to me. I had a few really good days when starting Crypto-Plus, which is an herbal blend. But then the benefits went away.
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