Topic: How can you tell the difference between Herxing and a bad reaction to abx?
BackinStOlaf
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Member # 23725
posted
Very confused about this
-------------------- First Symptom 9/09 Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test LLMD: 1/10 Positive Igenex/CDC test Treatment 2/10 2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues
Posts: 1121 | From New York, New York | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
That is a good question which I plan to ask my doc next week.
The only thing he mentioned previously to me, was if you get a rash all over your body (like I did once), it's either an allergic reaction or immune system going a little crazy.
But unfortunately, it seems like a lot of the potential side effects of antibiotics also correlate with herx reactions. I guess if the side effects never go away, it's an antibiotic side effect... if they improve, it's a herx?
Posts: 584 | From NY | Registered: Feb 2009
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I'm wondering the very same thing, St. Olaf.
I started 400 mg/doxy on 12/24 and definitely herx'd like mad from days 5 through 9. Severe constant waves of chills.
Two days ago, on my 27th day of abx, I had a severe herx - chills again plus roaring ringing in my ears, nausea, and feeling like I was going to collapse.
Everything has 'simmered' down except the CRUSHING fatigue. I have not been able to get out of bed for 2 1/2 days.
Has anyone experienced this God-awful exhaustion following a herx?
Posts: 25 | From Long Island, NY | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
If you do a search you will see alot of posts on this very important question.
I agree - some of the side effects of abx's mirror a herx. So how does one tell?
The way that I have learned to tell the difference if it comes in waves of days or a week or two as opposed to months, then I consider that a herx for me. I typically see a pattern.
Also, if I feel better aftet the "symptoms" subside then I assume it was a herx. I tend to see a positive trend in that I feel better after the symptoms/herx subside then I did prior to them coming on.
Everyone is so different but your LLMD should be able to clarify it for you and your individual constitution.
Regarding the exhaustion....A BIG YES!!! For days on end. It feels like my body was busy fighting a civil war and I get so depleted. Pretty common thing.. TG
Posts: 376 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
I think reactions to an abx start earlier than a herx would. For me, a herx usually happens on day 4 or the second week or fourth week of the drug. Dr. B talks about it taking 48 to 72 hours to start killing lyme. The co-infections may be different.
Talk to your doctor and tell him/her what is going on.
As far as fatigue, it is one of my main symptoms but it can get worse when I herx.
B4LYME
Posts: 144 | From PA | Registered: Nov 2009
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Keebler
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- Liver support and Adrenal support will general help ease a herx. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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nefferdun
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Member # 20157
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I have wondered the same thing. Many of the side effects of the drugs we take are the same as the symptoms of the diseases we have. The drugs can give you headache, dizziness, depression, fatigue just to name a few so how do you know if it is a herx, a reaction to the drug or just the disease..
I have read you should get much worse for a while but then get much better. This should cycle with borrelia lyme, flaring about every 4 weeks, waxing and waning like the moon. If you do not have periods of time when you recover at least a little, then the drug is probably not good for you and you need to change it. However I do not know about the other infections such as bartonella. When a drug helped me with that I had a crash of symptoms, then slowly crawled out of it without the waxing and waning periods. Also when you quit a lyme drug it can take weeks to relapse but with bart it happens very quickly in days.
I quit Rifampin the day before yesterday and yesterday was the best day I have had in months. The side effects of Rifampin include headaches, depression, insomnia and even pain in bones. I could not tell what was what. Finally I decided to switch abx. Rifampin did help me some - the headaches became less frequent and the shin pain diminished but it was not until I quit it that I could see any improvement in my moods and ability to sleep. Yesterday I felt like I was alive again.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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ping
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Member # 6974
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quote:Originally posted by Marie1959: I started 400 mg/doxy on 12/24 and definitely herx'd like mad from days 5 through 9. Severe constant waves of chills.
Two days ago, on my 27th day of abx, I had a severe herx - chills again plus roaring ringing in my ears, nausea, and feeling like I was going to collapse.
Everything has 'simmered' down except the CRUSHING fatigue. I have not been able to get out of bed for 2 1/2 days.
Has anyone experienced this God-awful exhaustion following a herx?
Don't know how effectively I can answer this question, but what has been stated above sounds very much like a classic herx. Notice the intervals of days 5 - 9 and again on day 27 or so, with severe fatigue throughout, likely through the entire period. The nausea and tinnitus could go either way, but the timing tells me it's a nasty herx. The number of days and intervals can vary, but this is a real obvious example.
It's likely that the bacteria that was killed during the first few days the drug was taken and took about 5 days to build up toxins in the body. This is a good sign (although a really bad feeling). Again on day 27, when the bacteria was in the reproduction phase and most likely to be killed off, also a good sign, but a bad feeling.
If it's an actual allergic reaction to a drug, you might get rash, hives, difficulty breathing and other sx's that would make it a medical emergency. THERE SHOULD ALWAYS BE INFO ABOUT THE DRUG AND ALLERGIC REACTIONS, WITH OR ATTACHED TO YOUR PACKAGING, FROM YOUR PHARMACY. If you don't receive the info, please ask them. I always ask for the entire drug insert from the manufacturer too, but that's really not necessary; I'm just overly inquisitive...(I even call the manufacter's 1-800 number and get them to fax or email me the works.)
Herxes and allergic reactions are different. Then, as nefferdun mentioned, there are SIDE EFFECTS, which are a catagory different from herxes & allergic reactions. (Side effects are usually bowel, fatigue and depression related.) Your pharmacist can be your buddy. Be sure to get the printed info. on allergic reactions whenever you order your meds. Ask for it.
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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klutzo
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Member # 5701
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To be sure you can do what I did. Get an appt. with an allergist to have skin testing done for all ABX. That way you know which ones you are and are not allergic to. It only takes one appt.
I had ended up in the ER too many times, and been told over and over by other patients that it was probably herxing, not allergy.
I am glad I had the skin tests, because it turned out I was severely allergic to all ABX but fluroquinolones, and I could have died if I'd taken those other drugs again.
klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Thank you, Ping. Wonder what the new month will bring...kind of afraid to know...
Posts: 25 | From Long Island, NY | Registered: Jan 2010
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Wonder what the new month will bring...kind of afraid to know...
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