posted
I'm wondering if any of y'all have this sx: not only painful/burning soles, but your feet like someone took a sledgehammer to them..like all the bones are broken (sorry, gross).
Worse during herxing. Walking sometimes is imppossible, my LLMD says it probably isn't bart.. if not bart then what??
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You know, this disease is so frustrating. Some of the trademark symptoms of a disease are dismissed by llmds. My dr said that my air hunger is not babs, which totally puzzles me.
I hope you find some relief!
Posts: 490 | From TX- Go Cowboys! | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Do you have sore shins too? Odd rashes that match Bart?
At this point, I'm not sure how any doc can say for certain a person doesn't have any co-infection. So many varied symptoms and lab tests are at best iffy.
I get the air hunger thing too, yet doc says it's unlikely to be babs. And he may be right, but I'm not sure how anyone can really know.
Best bet may simply to treat with an antibiotic that mostly hits bart, and see how you react. Although if you go with a quinolone that has its own risks too.
Posts: 584 | From NY | Registered: Feb 2009
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btmb03
Unregistered
posted
Thank you both for your replies - well I have a ton of fibro pain and joint pain so..it's really hard to tell specifically about the shins.
As for rashes, occasionally, usually circular, reddish, size of a pencil eraser..they disappear as quickly as they come.
I'm sure as tx progresses my LLMD will re-evaluate..it IS so hard to determine what is what, best to trust one's doc I guess.
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posted
Along with the shin and bottom of foot pain, I get a very sharp pain in my ankles and foot joints. When I move my foot even slightly, it can feel like there is a metal rod through my foot.
This is made worse by the cold and, for some reason, when I'm in bed. So it's often there when I wake up, or gets bad if I go walking in the cold.
I assume it is part of my Lyme/Bart, because of how it can come and go and be debilitating one minute, and practically gone the next.
Posts: 455 | From Was in PA, then MD, now in the Midwest | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Foot pain can also be sluggish lymph flow. I've heard red root tincture recommended for it.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
six,
yep. sluggish lymph system can cause a ton of problems (stiff neck, swollen neck, foot pain, rib pain, calf pain)
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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btmb03
Unregistered
posted
Sorry you're also struggling with something similar Wonko, hope tx helps it.
I tried the Pekana drainage remedies, didn't tolerate them..can't tolerate massages either..will have to ask LLMD about red root tinctures, don't know much about them at all..thx!
Oh yeah..apart from my feet and other pain, I find the 'small bones' of my hand also hurt..inflammation??
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Your "sledgehammer" description mirrors my "like they've been driven over by truck tires" as the only possible explanation for my foot pain.
Yes, this could still be bart but all the other chronic infections can also do this - severe tenderness, inflammation, pain - anywhere in the body but the feet really take the brunt of it.
AND there are other things to consider, too. It would be good to be fitted by a podiatrist for your own orthotic. NEVER going barefoot is very important if this is Plantar fasciitis - which can affect much more than just the heel - the whole foot.
Take in your shoes so your podiatrist can watch you walk in them and assess each pair for proper support of BOTH arches in each foot. Cheap store bought arch supports can do more damage than good (and usually miss the metatarsal support), but you can buy a Birkenstock arch support now - you'll just need a room shoe for it. Birkenstocks - especially around the house and as a slipper are excellent.
Not knowing if you are male or female - either way, high heels are out, though !
I addition to proper food support and gentle but consistent stretches and a night boot - what helped me the most was ANDROGRAPHIS, as in Buhner's book "Healing Lyme" - I saw my feet get much better after 4 - 5 years of pain that had me near suicide just from my feet alone. All those other things were important but it was clearly the andrographis that brought my feet back to me.
Some LLMDs prescribe that, too, as a complement. You can ask your LLMD about it and maybe give it a month or two trial. For me, I think it took a few months but I was not taking it with this intent - this was a surprise benefit that I just happened to notice and andrographis was the ONLY thing new I was doing.
Plantar fasciitis is a painful inflammatory process of the plantar fascia. Longstanding cases of plantar fasciitis often demonstrate more degenerative changes than inflammatory changes, in which case they are termed plantar fasciosis.
Night Splints are the #1 Rated Overnight Treatment
(this does not mean it works overnight but is done overnight - I would never be walking now had it not been for these on both feet.
You would want to wear long COTTON SOCKS with these as the fabric can be hot - and socks will keep the boot cleaner, too. This is just one model but they need to be a long boot so your foot does not flex.
For a bit of a trial, you might wear VERY clean athletic shoes to bed. Sleeping on your back, try not to bend your foot at all, keeping toes pointing up. When you rest throughout the day, this is good, too.
Until you can get to your podiatrist, search at Google for: "Birkenstock orthotic"
If you can see a foot specialist soon, you might want to save your money to go toward custom-made orthotics.
A podiatrist can also order P.T. with ultrasound tx - very helpful. The ultrasound is best. Ice is frequently suggested by doctors but, actually, is suggested to be AVOIDED by lyme patients as per Dr. B's guidelines. Electric stimulation is also to be avoided but ultrasound was like deep massage for me and very helpful for temporary relief of a day or so. Great for circulation.
Look around pages 31-32 in the P.T. prescription part in Dr. B's guidelines. At the bottom of the page.
A P.T. course will also help you learn how to stretch all the tendons in your LEGS that attach to the foot tendons and muscles. The legs are vital to the feet. If the legs are hurting, that will pull on the feet, for sure. -
[ 02-08-2010, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Andrographis is mentioned in Singleton's book; much more thoroughly detailed in Buhner's: I consider the chapter in Buhner's book required reading. It is absolutely excellent detail.
Andrographis combined with eleutherococcus, licorice, and schisandra has shown promise for a genetic disease called familial Mediterranean fever. 24, 25
quote:Originally posted by btmb03: Oh yeah..apart from my feet and other pain, I find the 'small bones' of my hand also hurt..inflammation??
My massage therapist knows how to do lymphatic drainage. He always moves around those little bones to drain the lymph. Feels great.
I'd suspect between the feet and hands that it could be lymphatic.
If you try red root, start slowly and work up. I actually tolerate few herbs and don't tolerate this one, but I hear if does well for others. Some say it really helps a herx.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
At a point, I developed foot pain. Not the bottom of foot pain that is classically associated with Bartonella. But it was like my feet got slammed in a car door or something. Not just bone pain, or muscle...but like they got smashed.
I mean, I would LOOK at my feet and they were FINE, to try to re-train or wire my brain to understand that they were clearly not smashed in a door. But they hurt bad.
It's a bit better now, and I have no idea what might have hit it. I did a run of cipro, and it SEEMED to coincide with that, but at the same time, I have been on Mino for months, and a number of other things.
And it's not gone.....just better.
Posts: 322 | From Venice, CA | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
I do not have Lyme -- hubby does. But I used to have pain on the bottom of my feet. It was worse first thing in the morning when I got out of bed. For me it was due to high blood pressure -- the only symptom I had.
So something else to consider as a cause.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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nefferdun
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posted
Sore feet is classic. Some of the other symptosm are headace,aching shins, lumps along shin bone, hot flashes, nodules under skin that hurt when pressed, UTI (without testing positive for infection), dry sensitive eyes, pea size brown spots on skin or white marks, tiny blood blisters (hard to see), spider veins, red or purple "stretch marks", blotches, papules, swelling that does not dent anywhere but feet, shins are most common, markings on the skin like stacked clam shells or chicken and of course the typical streaks (which I never had).
Check out your skin. If you see some of the above mentioned things, then you probably have bart and need to see another doctor if he does not agree to allow you to treat for it. It is so hard to get rid of that you absolutely don't want to wait.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
google Plantar Fasciitis
Posts: 365 | From Sylvania | Registered: Aug 2008
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CD57
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posted
I am interested to hear that the sore feet and hands can be lymph related?
I have had, since day one of abx, the sore soles and occasionally heels. It does not go away. No abx has made it go away. they do not feel like they were smashed, rather, the soles ache. I have treated bartonella for 2.5 yrs and its still not gone so I am also interested in other explanations.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
I have the same symptom, although, since I have added Houttuynia to my protocol, I am having Bart herxes, but that symptom has not waned for me. Interesting to hear it may be lymph related and will try the red root and look for someone who can do lymphatic massages.
Thanks for the tip.
Posts: 19 | From New York | Registered: Jan 2010
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Please explain how to treat with "red root".
How much do you use, how often, how is it taken (orally?) and where is the best place to get it?
Thanks!
-------------------- Margaret Posts: 103 | From CT | Registered: Feb 2007
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randibear
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posted
my feet hurt too and burn but not too badly.\
however my heels seem to have lost feeling, like they are numb.
anybody get that?
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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nefferdun
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posted
All of that information is directly from the book by he who cannot be named. I did not become an "expert" - I merely read his book. As the book can cost over $100 I try to share what to look for with other people that might not have it or be able to afford it.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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map1131
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posted
All pathways through the body lead to our feet. It is amazing what those two little feet must tolerate.
Toxic body, toxic feet. So it could be something other than lyme & company like bart. If you have any other sx of bart, I'd bet on it being bart.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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Tracy9
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Member # 7521
posted
Small fiber neuropathy. See a neurologist and get a punch skin biopsy done.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
got lyme-i've been working up to 20 drops 3 times a day. i'm there and now need to go back to buhners book to see how much more i should take
i put the drops in hot tea or cold juice. at first it bothered me to put it in juice but now it works.
pm me if you need more info-i'm very busy now and not on everyday
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I am so happy to hear all this. My painful feet are basically the only symptom that I am aware of. I was diagnosed in september of 09 after two months of x-rays and an MRI on my left foot. It was so swollen I thought it would pop. And the pain was so bad I could hardly walk. They gave me a boot to wear which really helped. I did go to a podiatrist, he's the one that did the MRI. Nothin was found wrong with it. The pain was like walking with shoes full of rocks. Could'nt put any pressure on it. Fianlly my family dr. tested for lyme. I did the 21 day antibiotics and that's it. I still have the pain but it's not as bad, I can walk. I guess I'm just getting use to it. But, now my hands are starting to feel the same way. Someone else on here mentioned the small bones, that's what I feel too. I do not have an LLMD. Since this is the only symptom I have, I questions if it really is still lyme or something else. Any ideas? I was tested for RA and lupus which came back negative.
Posts: 48 | From Eden Prairie, MN | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
Told painful soles of feet can be from babesia by 2 docs.
Sx resolved after 4+ months of tx for babesia/lyme...omnicef, mepron, zith (no tx for Bart).
Posts: 214 | From where ticks flourish | Registered: Dec 2007
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