djf2005
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Member # 11449
posted
Hey guys-
I have started humaworm recently, and I can barely tolerate 2 capsules at bedtime.
I am not sure if it's so hard to tolerate from parasite die-off, the neuro-toxicty of wormwood, or just the overall die-off of the broad spectrum of pathogens all these herbs address.
Anyway, as I said, it's hard to tolerate, so I take it at bedtime. I have been told and do believe that when parasites are killed, metals are released as well. This could be another reason why it is hard to tolerate.
I guess the question is, can DMSA or other agents be taken at bedtime as well to help w/ the removal of metals while taking humaworm?
I am taking binders and detox measures during the day, but no specific agents such as DMSA, DMPS, EDTA, etc.
Anyone taken anything for metals while doing humaworm?
Thanks in advance
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
I'm wondering the same thing. The pain and numbness in my toes is back. . haven't had it for at least a year.
I also had some amalgams removed right before I started humaworm.
I wonder. . .
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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glm1111
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posted
Make sure you drink a full glass of water when taking the herbs.
A lot of the parasites are sitting in the small intestine and when they are hit with something that is trying to kill them, you will probably herx.
Derek,
what exactlty do you mean when you say they are hard to tolerate? Symptoms?
I never took anything else when taking herbs of any kind. Don't know if it made a difference or not, but I do an am salt/c flush to get rid of dieoff from day before, so maybe it flushes out the metals as well,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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I took DMSA every other night during my month on Humaworm; I had also been taking DMSA for 5 months prior. I did have what I thought were die-off symptoms, but like you I wasn't sure if some of the symptoms were possible neurotoxicity from the wormwood. To confound things even more, I started the Humaworm several days after abruptly stopping Rifampin because of unbearable side effects. A mess, huh?
I did all that before getting my amalgams removed, however - are yours all removed now?
Lynne
-------------------- Increasingly ill over past 10 yrs; treating since October '08. Posts: 180 | From Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Oct 2008
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
On about page 70, you will find a parasite protocol that works. This is the protocol that Dr. K. uses with most people. Humaworm does not go to the depth of these pharma drugs, which really work best when talking parasites. Parasites reside not only in the colon, but also in the brain and you need to get rid of the larvae. It should be done in the sequence as described in the protocol. Thank goodness, Alinia is now not as expensive as it was way back when.
These treatments should be followed with colonics because you are definitely releasing heavy metals and viruses.
I have posted often about parasites, etc. If you search, you will find them. I wish things would have been as easy as it is now. I post this link above and you will find literally every aspect of Dr. K.'s approach toward Lyme. If you stick with the right sequence clearing out the terrain, you will be much more successful with eliminating the microorganisms. There is definitely now an order that has been found to work best.
Do read that stuff that has been so carefully put together by a group of the best doctors all involved in a Think Tank devoted with the Mothers for all these autstic children that need help. Much in these protocols is right for anyone with Lyme -- most autistic children have the very same problems as is being discussed on this board.
When I was going through Metal and Lyme and viral treatments, parasites, etc., none of this was so carefully selected. We had to do a lot of trial and error, but it would have been accomplished in half the time had we known then what is known today.
Please to read through it and see what you can apply for yourself. Parasites are priority and I can tell you that Humaworm is not the way to go. It is not a complete parasite treatment which is what is necessary if you want to avoid only doing half a job. The average person carries around 12 pounds of parasites (per Dr.K.) - not all are bad -- we need some of them -- but the "knights in shining armor" who hold a lot of the toxic elements in their coat - you do want to get them out.
As a general rule, I have been advised to stay away from B-Complex Vitamins: you are feeding the parasites with it; you get the leftovers, if any.
Sharing what I learned over many years of my own treatment and lectures I have been able to attend. Please take advantage of these wonderful protocols that are now available for anyone that is in need to know.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
Landers-
Thanks for sharing, I think once the humaworm is better tolerated (when I am able to take the full dose) I will add dmsa back in.
Gigi-
Thanks for your opinion on the way things should be done. I have watched DKs levels of healing dvds and have seen his ideas on Alinia. I agree it seems like a good product, and I will use it in the future. Humaworm may not be the first and last thing one will do for parasite treatment, but it is a start. Similar to how everything else is approached in this illness.
I think it is quite possibly unwise to form one's treatment approach from one single Dr's opinion and perhaps a cumulative approach is better employed.
I really have not met anyone who was very sick and got better by following one Drs opinion solely throughout treatment, unfortunately most Drs are too absorbed with what they are currently immersed in and all think they know "best".
We are all uniquely different, and unique and different treatments are what I feel are most effective.
I will definitely read the link though, and I appreciate your thoughts.
Do you have any reason as to why you think humaworm is not a good product, especially since so many on here and elsewhere have been so helped by it?
Also, is there a reference you can site for the avoidance of B-vitamins while treating or having parasites?
We all always have some amount of them so how is one to know when it's "ok" to take b vitamins?
Thanks
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
If Dr. K has this down so precisely, I wish other LLMDs and docs would follow ship. I saw one of the reported best LLMDs in the country and he had no recommendations on parasites nor seemed concerned. It was strange because he pretty much jumped on every idea out there.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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canefan17
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posted
When it comes to heavy metals... generally speaking what metals are we looking to get rid of..
Mercury, Aluminum, Lead, ____________
Also... when chelating... we're removing good minerals like Zinc, Iron, etc.
I think we should replace those efficiently.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
Wide spectrum of heavy metals get removed.
Replace w/ minerals and trace minerals.
(liquid-minerals of life, matrix minerals) (pill=core, etc)
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
glm1111
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posted
LLMDs are MDs, they just specialize in Lyme disease. They are not that educated in parasitology and are more focused on traditional allopathic schools of thought relating to bacteria, viruses, mycloplasmas etc.
I also had one of "the best" LLMDs in the countrty and he never mentioned intestinal parasites. I have been clearing parasites since Nov 2005 with antiparasitic herbs (about 20 caps a day of South American and Chinese herbs which all contained wormwood) for about 6 months.
I added salt/c in May 2006 and all hell broke loose when hundreds of worms and parasites came pouring out of me and continued for months.
I still continue getting rid of them (smaller ones)using Humaworm, Clarkia tincture (wormwood, cloves, black walnut hull and cloves) GiGi is correct in stating that they migrate to the brain laying larva and eggs.
I agree that one dose of Humaworm alone is not sufficient enough to get rid of these parasites and their eggs. It takes several different approaches over time to get rid of them.
The allopathic rx such as alinia, ivermectin etc are by themselves not enough either. It takes a combo of things.
I haven't been able to access Dr. Ks info on this that GiGi just posted, but I remember that he also uses different protocols including salt/c.
I also believe that there are many pounds of parasites sitting in the G.I. tract and because of my aggressive antiparasitic treatments have witnessed this first hand.
IMO, they are much more of a problem in this Lyme complex than is currently thought.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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ping
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Member # 6974
posted
Gael - If you can't access link, I can send it to you pdf version. Send me a note and I will reply with attachment.
I'm really wanting to do anti-parasitic protocol after getting up to speed on hydration, etc., would be interested in knowing exactly where you started with deworm (specifically roundworm) and any name brands / dosage amounts you suggest.
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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canefan17
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posted
djf,
I use 1/4 real salt in water everymorning and in the evening.
Is this replacing minerals?
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
quote:Originally posted by canefan17: djf,
I use 1/4 real salt in water everymorning and in the evening.
Is this replacing minerals?
Hi cane - If you'll look in the link that GiGi posted, you'll see a hydration recipe and also some info on replacing minerals. I use Real Salt too, but mineral replacement requires more. Take a look at the info.
Hi derek - I agree that it's not an exact science and probably not an exact order of protocol. Knowing what I know now, I do think that proper hydration with electrolytes should be first and minerals a close 2nd with other basics. The basics I agree with; the order of other parts of the protocol might well be individualized, depending upon the patient needs. Ex. - Although I've taken Mepron, which would have at least in part treated some of the microscopic organisms, I've yet to do full parasitic protocols such as Humaworm or Alinia, etc. Will be doing that as soon as I have hydration and mineral levels where they need to be.
I'm not sure about taking certain binders while on anti-parasitics such as Humaworm. Maybe Gael can tell us?
Best to You
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
canefan -- yes you are replacing mineral but it way too small an amount. And minerals is about enough of each, there are many reasons why we don't have enough zinc or magnesium no matter how much we ingest. it is a very complicated issue and is specific to each of us.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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canefan17
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posted
k thanks guys
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
The consensus I am getting from many message boards and my LLMD is that herbs don't really do the job for Parasites. You really need Alinia and others (usually a combo) for these bugs. They are too resistant, especially those in the small intestine. Xifaxin is very good for those.
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glm1111
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posted
Myco,
Wondering if the alinia and other antiparasitics also get rid of the larva and eggs?
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
quote:Originally posted by Myco: The consensus I am getting from many message boards and my LLMD is that herbs don't really do the job for Parasites. You really need Alinia and others (usually a combo) for these bugs. They are too resistant, especially those in the small intestine. Xifaxin is very good for those.
Myco, very true. My former LLMD doesn't do parasite protocols (as many LLMD's, as Gael said). I need to post in Seeking for an MD that will do parasite protocols. Only problem is that as Gael also says, it has to be a long term thing and really need someone who will stick with me.
Suggestions, anyone?
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
quote:Originally posted by glm1111: Myco,
Wondering if the alinia and other antiparasitics also get rid of the larva and eggs?
Gael
My question too... That's what I mean't by having to stick with me long term (LLMD or other MD).
Gael - Question. I don't do Salt/C and work 10 to 12 hours per day, so doing Clarke protocol is very difficult for me. Besides Humaworm, what else can I do? (You talked about Chinese herbs, etc.)
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
The link I posted above is the information gathered over many years by a Think Tank consisting of the best caliber medical people together with parents, many of them doing research reaching the end of the world trying to help their children. They meet several times a year, all important doctors attending. That Dr. K. is the "agitator" making it possible to publish this on the worldwibe web - is to his credit. Dr. D. puttng it all in written form making it easily identifyable for anyone - is a hero doing it so beautifully. There is hardly a day that I don't refresh my memory on some of these links.
It is not MY OPINION nor is it anything one SHOULD DO and I am not here to argue. I am presenting what I know, and if I have a strong opinion on something, I say so. Medicine is grey enough on its own. But when something has been found to work and solve a problem, I hook onto it. Parasites come in all sizes and need to be treated accordingly. What has been tried and found not to work or only partially has been discarded when something else has found to be better. You can choose. Dr. K. published his "Looking Beyond" in 2004 where he noted that Parasites are a priority for him with his patients.
Re Minerals:
If you take minerals in water and drink them down, they flush through you in a hurry and you are peeing them and others out next bathroom visit. There is no time for the body to accomplish any absorption.
Minerals need to be taken in combination with nutrients that take time to digest, metabolize, transit, so that the body has a chance to absorb the minerals while digesting other nutrients.
Drinking a lot of water assures your mineral depletion. Dr. K. as a number before him have called it the worst doctors tell their patient.
If you want the science/evidence, please search the worldwide web. I am passing on to you what I hear in lectures and my own family experience, and what I see every day and am therefore not in need of years of research. We are, most of us, severely mineral deficient. That is one major reason we are toxic and sick.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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ping
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Member # 6974
Under Minerals, Dr. K has CORE and a liquid called Mineral Matrix (mixed with water?). They are different minerals and for different uses. I'm not in a rush to do CORE without knowing exactly what's involved, as K warns in his presentation.
This is why I love watermelon! A few bites at a time with my electrolyte drink and it takes hours to work it's way through... Wonderful fruit that watermelon. Did this last summer and have been missing it every since. Had the best hydration going; could really tell the difference. (Talking about electrolytes now, not minerals...)
I'm building a program and it's not cut in stone... Lots to consider.
Good luck to all!
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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glm1111
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posted
ping.
You can do something like Clarkia at work because all it requires is that you put the drops in water and drink it.
The chinese herbs are from The Monastery Of Herbs and have to be ordered by a medical professional.
You might want to consider working with a good ND (Naturopathic Doctor) who understands Lyme and works with herbs. Someone who does ART testing.
GiGi has posted VERY informative info in the past about parasites and can be found in the archives as she stated.
Any doctor like Dr K that makes parasites his priority is pretty smart in my book.
Myco,
The combo of the salt/c and herbs can kill the parasites, larva and eggs.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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glm1111
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posted
P. S.
ping,
I LOVE watermelon and eat it ALL year round!! I will buy a whole one, and squeeze some lemon (good mineral source) and some sea salt on it. YUMMY!!
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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ping
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Member # 6974
posted
Thanks Gael. I've read most of the info on parasites and not quite at the point of taking it on until at least June or so, as I'm busy with something else right now and don't want to overload.
Do you have a link for Clarkia? Would love to have it.
Much thanks!
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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ping
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Member # 6974
posted
Thanks Gael. Was real busy yesterday and checked my email before checking this thread. On lunch break now and it's over....TTYL
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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lymie_in_md
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posted
I made my own black hull walnut tincture. I gathered the nuts which are actually green and smell a little like lemons. I bathed in them in 50% alcohol and followed the recipe for double strength and made about two quarts of it. Cost about 12 dollars for a multi year supply.
I test for a lot more of the black hull walnut tincture then anything else. I separately have cloves, which I'll take 5 or 6 and chew them. A couple of times a day plus I have ground cloves in whatever I make in the morning.
I always test positive for it. Getting rid of parasites, is a Gael says a longterm process. Just sharing a little of my routine.
However, there is a connection with hydration and parasites. So ensuring hydration is very important if you are going to beat the parasites. That includes using alinia! However, I still prefer to find a natural approach.
Just one last point. If KPU is an issue, the immune system (immune system needs sufficient zinc and vitamins such as b6) is firing blanks and parasites as well as bacteria virus exist in the body without challenge. I suspect that it takes months to kill enough parasites/pathogens and at the same time get zinc levels back to normal.
So if the immune system is compromised, how good is clarkia going to be or salt/c? The immune system has to be working for anything to work, IMO.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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glm1111
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posted
Bob,
Nice that you can make your own tinctures. What about the wormwood? Do you take that as well? FYI, I agree that the immune system is compromised if we are dehydrated.
A lot of people are salt deficient and that can cause dehydration. When doing the salt/c protocol, drinking a lot of water will help circulate the salt and fill the cells with needed water.
Sea salt also contains mega minerals which we all desperately need. Vit C is a well known immune system booster.
Getting parasites out of the G.I. track with any antiparasitics will automatically give the immune system a chance to recuperate.
I found that eating a diet rich in zinc and vit b6 is more readily absorbed by the body.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
As far as tolerance what do you mean? I did a colon cleansing program and got totally disoriented for two days. I was forgetting everything but kept at it for thirty days. I feel better now and not sure what worked or not but it definitely did something.
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