Topic: positive thinking-no effect on physical health...
Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
OK,
Granted I am skeptical by nature, but I have to get this off my chest.
I see people making claims that there is scientific evidence that positive thinking/optomism/affirmations/ will improve you physical health.
I'm sure it helps people's mental health, but if you are not naturally inclined to be optomistic, this self hypnosis won't work for those of us that are inclined towords dubiousness.
The studies to date have genereted very conflicting results as to the effect of optomism/positive thinking on physcial health. Many of the studies that did show effects have not been able to be reproduced, or did not take into account certain other important factors like excercise. And in fact some studies flat out showed no effect, or remarkably, showed that optomistic people fared worse immunoligically, or that pessimistice people did better.
I just got finished reading Barbara Ehrenreichs new book, "Bright-sided, how the relentless power of postive thinking has undermined America." Recommend it to everyone. ITs actaully about a lot more than health.
I bring this up because for the last year I ahve been feeling badly that maybe I wasn't being postivie enough, and that was why I wasn't getting well. Then I felt guilty, like maybe it was somehow my fault.
Because, if you believe that postive thinking makes you healthier, then you will also believe that negative thinking will make/keep you sick.
Best to be honest about your feelings, rather than repress your natural inclinations....
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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canefan17
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posted
Amanada,
Positive thinking and laughter can increase endorphins.
Noone said it will necessarily improve your health. AKA it's not a cure for cancer... but it absolutely can't HURT treatment.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
laughter can increase endorphins, since it is genuine. I haven't seen a study that showed postive thoughts, in and of themselves, increase endorphins.
I guess, I am arguing that , in fact, forcing yourself to think positive, and then feeling bad because you don't really believe it CAN hurt. Because now in addition to feeling like ****, you feel responsible for your sickness, and thus feel guilty. Which isn't good for your emotional health.
Look, some people are just naturally inclined to think positively, and thats great. But going agasint your nature won't work...
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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massman
Unregistered
posted
Have you tried EFT ? EFT is not a happy face, it is reprogramming.
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canefan17
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Member # 22149
posted
Amanda,
Obviously forcing positive feelings onto a brain denying the transaction is useless.
Rather put yourself in situations where positive energy and laughter may arise.
I think that's more of the idea.
For example: every now and then I'll pop up a motivational video on youtube or a song that motivates me.
And I can literally feel my body responding positively to it.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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seekhelp
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Member # 15067
posted
I have tried for two years now to think happy thoughts about how the Gary Wormser does care about my suffering. Every day I go to sleep thinking positive thoughts and not doubting his sincereness.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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canefan17
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posted
mass,
I used reprogramming in HS to get rid of panic attacks.
I broke down the symptoms of a panic attack and reprogrammed my brain to not become anxious.
I haven't had one since.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
When I first got sick, I lived in an area with several EFT "masters".
It did not help me, and the other 4 people in my old lyme group that decided to try it weren't helped either.
Maybe it can work for psychological issues, I don't know.
No one in the "EFT movement" has done any kind of tracking study. Double blind pacebo is best, but there are other things you can do. They could set aside 300 new people with physical illnesses and perform EFT on them and see how they do over the course of a couple of years.
You will almost always find a small group of people who respond postively to anything, its called the placebo effect. thats why relying on testimonials isn't a good idea.
If positive thinking is very important to you, (or EFT or anything else) is importnat to you, then by all means, do what makes you happy.
I guess my only point is don't claim science supports it, because at the present time, it does not. And realize that for some pople telling them they "should" be "postive" in order to get well might just stress them out or (in my case, very frankly) make them angry.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I'm with you Amanda. People judge the sick. I know I did before I got sick. It's a very New-Agey view, if you're sick, people tell you you're not being positive enough, or you aren't releasing your emotions or you aren't doing something on top of feeling horrible. Then after beating yourself up like this for some time, hopefully you come to the conclusion that crap happens to good people sometimes for no good reason at all... and that healing is a lot more complicated than than the self-righteous New Agers think.
It's easy to judge when you're healthy, and easy to be compassionate when you're are sick. That's the only positive thing I can say about my suffering, but it's a big one.
Posts: 19 | From Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2010
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Hoosiers51
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Member # 15759
posted
Positive thinking can be good in the sense that when people need a little "shove" to exercise or get out of bed to get the lymph movin', you'll do it when you're positive and not negative (lifting light weights can help Lymies recover).
But positive thinking won't cure you. So stop guilt-tripping yourself!!!!!!
Do what you can, and don't feel guilty about the rest of it.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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massman
Unregistered
posted
DBPC study on EFT ?
I was not aware that DBPC studies can truly evaluate things with hundreds of variables.
Ohhhhh....that science advances so fast it is truly amazing !
And the fact that mental health and physical health are not connected is sooooooo mind blowing. Of course engineers, who are God's brothers + cousins have known this since the beginning of time.
They would get great results if they were in charge of the world.
posted
hah I am naturally a cynic and can have some dark moods, not what one would call a positive thinker.
However-when I set my mind at truly tackling an issue (which for me is staying on top of things, reading as much as I can, being as truly proactive as possible)my moods turn positive and I feel better in general.
I think mental health directly affects physical health and vice versa.
I don't think positive thinking will cure anyone, you need to be able to do what it takes to get well physically.
When sick, there's obviously no way to be positive all the time-at least not for me. There are going to be dark moments. I do believe thought that the brain is a seriously powerful organ and the health of said organ can really affect one's outcome in an illness.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
I have not read the science on this, so I can't say about the effects of positive thinking on the immune system.
I haven't read the book you mention, so I can't comment on it, either.
A very wise person I knew was fond of saying, "You always have the right to feel the way you feel."
It's not your fault that you are sick. (Unless maybe you stuck your hand in a bucket of infected ticks on purpose and encouraged them to bite you, haha.)
Your illness or your feelings about being ill can cause you to feel negative. You do not have an infectious disease just because you didn't think enough happy thoughts.
You have an infectious disease because it infected you. You will get better if you can physically kill the infection.
I am, however, a natural optimist. My optimism is the conviction that no matter how bad things get, I can always find the strength to keep going, and I always have a choice, to not give up.
Lyme occasionally makes my optimism desert me, and then I really can't function, and I stop trying, and sabotage my physical health by not caring what happens to me.
So even though it is not my fault that I sometimes stop being optimistic, it is a vicious cycle that does hurt my physical health. The only way out of that for me is to find my optimism again.
Helpful positive thoughts interpret reality in a positive way, and look for the good that can be found or made in a situation.
Unhelpful negative thoughts masquerading as positive ones deny the facts. If you have a disease that is progressing without treatment, and you think, "Oh, I'm sure it's nothing, it will go away and I will be fine," then it will hurt you instead of help.
I think that thinking "My Lyme relapsed or my cancer came back because I didn't think positively enough, I didn't have enough faith that I could get well, I didn't pray hard enough," etc., is denying the reality that those diseases have physical causes.
There have been proven studies that meditation has measurable effects on brain function, laughter increases endorphins, and we all know from experience that we can hold our breath under water when we choose to,
even though our nervous system automatically controls our breathing when we are asleep.
So I would not be surprised if studies did find some kind of connection between attitude and the immune system.
The trouble is defining and measuring attitudes, and figuring out what causes attitudes, because they are only partly voluntary.
And figuring out how the immune system affects attitudes as well as how attitudes affect the immune system.
But they ARE partly voluntary, and we do have some room to choose our responses to life, and to do things to cheer ourselves up when we feel down.
That won't hurt your physical health, and it will make your quality of life better, and it's possible they could discover and prove ways that it MAY help your health (not guaranteed to, even if the connection is there), so why not try it?
Antidepressant drugs can make depressed people feel less depressed by changing their brain chemistry.
Maybe a strong immune system that leads to particular brain chemistry can make people feel optimistic, rather than optimism causing a stronger immune system. Or maybe they are unrelated.
Don't blame yourself. It's not your fault that you're sick. There's no need to feel guilty for your feelings. And you don't have to be cheerful to get well.
But it won't hurt you if you manage to find some cheer where you can.
I hope today is a good day for you.
-------------------- Don't forget to laugh! And when you're going through hell, keep going!
Bitten 5/25/2009 in Perry County, Indiana. Diagnosed by LLMD 12/2/2009. Posts: 756 | From Inside the tunnel | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Although yes-faking being positive-if you are truly depressed and not feeling it-is stressful in and of itself.
When I get depressed, anxious, etc and am having a very hard time getting out of it, I will let it all out for as long as I need to-cry, mope, scream, blah blah-but eventually I scrape myself off and start researching, talking to people, and, yes, seeing a therapist for when its real bad. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy has helped me tremendously.
I don't think pretending to be positive is the point, its supposed to be about retraining your brain.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
I read this interview years ago with Naomi Campbell the beautiful model. She was asked what object best represented her soul. She responded something like, "The Sun because it's pure positivity and light" I thought, uh-oh, there's a girl who totally denies her dark side. And sure enough, a year later, she got busted for physically beating on one of her assistants, she had to do community service and go to anger management class. And that's how it is with the people who deny the dark, because the dark is always a part of us... ALWAYS, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Being generally positive and optimistic is the way to go, but suppressing frustration, anger, sadness and other "undesirable" emotions is a recipe for disaster. We just have to live with that stuff the best we can.
To feel bad about feeling bad is what the Taoists call the "double injury", The first injury we can't do anything about, but the other...
Posts: 19 | From Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2010
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canefan17
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