posted
Hi Everyone....I'm new here. I read some great forum topics with supportive and knowledgeable responses. I've been sick for years, but was recently diagnosed with Bb and Babesia. My LLMD started me on Biaxin and Septra. I had a great and immediate (4-5 days)response, but also ran into the (anticipated) detox problem after about a week. Because I have the detox problem with many meds/herbs, I have become able to recognize it from herxing. Anyhow, she switched me over to Zithromycin, which also had an immediate great response, but I ran into the same detox problem after a week. She has now put me on IM Bicillin to get around the detox problem, which it does so very well...but I am not getting that immediate response on the symptoms like I did with the others. I'm 2 weeks on the Bicillin now and notice nothing....so since I tolerate and detox the med so well, I'm hoping the response is just taking longer than the others did. I am working on detox/methylation issues meanwhile too. I would appreciate some feedback....thanks everyone.
Posts: 16 | From Arcata Ca. | Registered: Mar 2010
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Welcome!
Typically it's normal to experience a herxheimer reaction a few days to a week into treatment. It's not a problem, it's a normal reaction to Lyme treatment. So, stick with it!!
Keep reading, there is a lot of info here.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- When possible, it's good not to herx. Don't hope for that. The medicine can work just fine without a herx. Some LLMDs don't WANT their patients to herx as it's so hard on the body.
You seem at a point where you are tolerating the protocol. That's good. No herx = no problem. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thanks everyone...Sorry, what I meant by "great response" was not herxing, but rather that I would start to feel great with a major relief from symptoms. I haven't experienced that with the Bicillin (yet) like I did with the others.
Posts: 16 | From Arcata Ca. | Registered: Mar 2010
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
Bicillin (for most) can take 3+ months to really help and a lot of chronic patients stay on it for 1+ year.
It has helped me a lot in the past and I may use it again.
No fun in the bum but effective.
Herxing for most is unavoidable, but supporting detox is crucial throughout the entire duration of treatment.
Those who do not herx IMO either do not have a high load or have perfect detox pathways and in that case they should not be that sick anyway...
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
quote:Originally posted by Jed: Thanks everyone...Sorry, what I meant by "great response" was not herxing, but rather that I would start to feel great with a major relief from symptoms. I haven't experienced that with the Bicillin (yet) like I did with the others.
I was referring to your detox problem. That may actually be a herx. Typically, I'd feel good like you did for a few days, then herx.
But, if you can progress slowly on something else without herxes, that's good.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Oh ok, thanks Six, your right that it is really hard to tell the difference if it's herx or detox/methylation problem.
Posts: 16 | From Arcata Ca. | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
Thanks DJF, I was wondering about responsiveness taking longer like that. I do need to sit tight with it for a while.....I'm only 2 weeks on the med. Appreciate everyone input.
Posts: 16 | From Arcata Ca. | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
I have read that the herx is a consequence of the large amount of toxins released when the drug starts to work and suddenly kills a lot of bugs at once.
So detoxing can help reduce the symptoms of a herx, and reduce the amount of toxins that might build up in your system and keep causing symptoms. Some people are genetically better at removing the toxins from their body than others.
Therefore you might not be able to tell the difference between "herx" and "detox problem." But in either case, it may mean the drug is working as expected.
-------------------- Don't forget to laugh! And when you're going through hell, keep going!
Bitten 5/25/2009 in Perry County, Indiana. Diagnosed by LLMD 12/2/2009. Posts: 756 | From Inside the tunnel | Registered: Jan 2010
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Borrelia die in the tissues and usually cause inflammation. In addition, Borrelia releases heavy metals when it dies according to some LLMD's. Anti-inflammatories and heavy metal binders should help a lot with symptoms.
When your ability to purge the die-off cannot keep up with the amount being killed, you will have symptoms. This can happen even when not in treatment due to natural die off of the organism and is likely responsible for many symptoms that we experience.
In addition to methylation cycle issues, some of us (estimated at 1/3) cannot make enough antibodies to effectively get rid of the die off. Our ability to purge the die off will be greatly impaired compared to others. We need binders to remove it from our body. Dr. S. of the book "Mold Warriors" has a program for that in which Actos (a diabetic medication) is prescribed to downregulate cytokines and the prescription cholestyramine is used to bind to and remove the toxins. There are over the counter supplements that can be used if you can't get a prescription. Here is a website that explains the concept. http://www.biotoxin.info/ Also you can search here at lymenet for many past discussions regarding biotoxins.
I think it is rare to treat lyme disease without some die-off reaction so I'm really puzzled as to why your doctor would keep changing medications to avoid die-off rather than trying binders, drainage remedies, anti-inflammatories etc..
Trying to figure out whether symptoms are related to die off, drug reactions or flares from other infections can be very difficult.
Do you have an ILADS trained lyme doctor?
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Thanks for the info. She is changing my meds because of me having a problem detoxing the meds, not the die off. I get toxic from the med, not the die off. I do that with lots of meds and herbs, which I understand is common with detox/methylation problems. How can I tell the difference? Because I get the "toxic" feeling with some meds that do not even cause die off. I have been doing that for years and have come to recognize what it feels like. If I continue taking a med that is causing that toxicity, I will become more and more ill until I can't move, or stop the med. But my original question was not about herxing or detox....it was about why I hadn't had a great response with Bicillin like I did with the other abx. With the other abx I would start to feel great a few days into taking the med. But that hasn't happened 2 weeks on Bicillin. I was just wondering if people had similar delayed responses on Bicillin....and by responses, I meant feeling better, not herxing.
Posts: 16 | From Arcata Ca. | Registered: Mar 2010
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Thanks for explaining Jed. Sorry, I can't explain the bicillin situation.
Like six, I expected you were herxing with the other meds rather than it being the med itself.
I have had the full methylation testing and have many issues with that but I can't tell the difference between herxing and other detox issues even though I keep detailed notes on my responses. You are the first person I've ever heard of who can.
I hope you get it figured out.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Well, it's certainly not easy to tell the difference, and I'm not convinced I'm always right about it. It helps to hear I'm not alone with trying to sort through that mess. It makes it seem more like I'm on the right track.
Thanks again.
Posts: 16 | From Arcata Ca. | Registered: Mar 2010
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