posted
I have weaned off of Ultram ER with my LLMD's approval. I have a question about symptoms of w/d.
Can w/d mimic a full blown cold or did I just happen to get one, just before completely going off of the Ultram ER.
Also, I am so tired, more than usual after the Christmas over doing it and more than the reg. fatigue. (I had been feeling real good in this area until I decided I could do some cookie baking for Christmas.)
Anyway, I feel sleepy and I have actually been sleeping much better since weaning off of Ambien CR (due to it losing much of it's effect and leading to a couple hrs. of insomnia and other messed up sleep).
I know I have sleeping disorders, but I have had them all along, so could withdrawal be making me feel sleepy?
Next Fri. I can start LDN, so I am guessing that the w/d symptoms should be gone by then? This w/d is nothing like when I got off of oxycontin! It is much more tolerable and the last few days I have only experienced the creepy crawlies and feeling wound up from the late afternoon hrs. and on.
joalo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12752
posted
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-------------------- Sick since January 1985. Misdiagnosed for 20 years. Tested CDC positive October 2005. Treating since April 2006. Posts: 3228 | From Somewhere west of the Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2007
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
doesnt really sound like withdrawl to me but I am no expert. I do know I get runny nose and eyes and yawn a lot if I dont take pain meds for awhile.
sorry couldnt be more help. hopefully someone will come along.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
It seems that your doctor and you are simply substituting one CNS depressant for another. Switching back and forth between opiates and benzodiazepines and similar drugs is not a wise thing to do. Too many people think they are withdrawing, or have successfully withdrawn from a med, when in fact all they have done is switch their depressant drug of choice. I understand that you are not simply a drug-seeking abuser, but regardless, they still cause a dependency and many people experience terrible withdrawal symptoms. The withdrawal symptoms are virtually identitical to the symptoms of Lyme disease.
It is not a wise idea to use LDN in this case. Again, you are switching your depressant. You and your doctor are building an addiction and masking any potential symptoms that could help in treatment/diagnosis.
People do become dependent and addicted to these drugs, including benzos, even if they don't take them every day.
There are support groups on the Internet where people talk about drug withdrawal and problems with their use - (tolerance, dependency, inter-dose withdrawal, etc).
Ambien, Lunesta, and the other drugs you mention have caused alot of grief to alot of people. Most doctors do not recognize the symptoms of tolerance.
I strongly suggest that you do NOT use LDN. Taper off these drugs - don't keep switching to stronger and stronger ones.
Posts: 42 | From Lymeland USA | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
The use of these drugs, especially benzodiazepines, which would extend to Ambien, does cause rhinitis in many people. Withdrawing from them feels like a very very VERY bad case of the flu -- stomach/GI problems, sinus congestion, chest congestion, coughing, nausea, chills, sweats, stomach cramps, bloating, fatigue, balance and vision problems, tremors, panic-like episodes ...
Some people experience these problems for many months and even years after tapering off these types of drugs. Depending on your tolerance threshold, you can fall into a lesser withdrawal state in-between each regular dose. Too often people dismiss these symptoms or try to relate them to other causes, such as Lyme.
Posts: 42 | From Lymeland USA | Registered: Mar 2010
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The list of w/d is very long and can mirror many other medical conditions - yes including lyme.
Rhinitis and watery eyes are a couple that people do not readily attribute to w/d but does happen with Benzo/s and Ambien
So that makes it very difficult for someone who has lyme that is also taking Benzo.'s or opiate type pain reliever to understand the difference
One thing that I would add is to be aware of protracted w/d syndrome ( w/d too fast causing w/d for an extensive period of time).
Also tolerance w/d is something that happens even when you have not stopped the drug.
Tolerane w/d happens as you continue to take the drug and occurs as a result of your body and brain building a tolerance to it.
The w/d from benzo.s has many, many CNS effects; muscle spasms, burning, tingling, crawling sensation, vibration in the body, fibro. like feelings etc..
Just be aware.
Posts: 376 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2009
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Once someone has sucessfully taperd off a drug that they had developed a physiological tolerance to do not take it again.
Certain drugs, such as benzo. like drugs, put you at a high risk for going right back into w/d hell should you take again. This is especially true for the first 12 months.
Posts: 376 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
I am a bit confused by the replies. I do not have an addictive personality at all. I understand that physio. I was addicted, but not at all pyschologically, so I just bear it. Like I mentioned the Oxycontin w/d was far worse and I just rode it out. The physical part is over now, anyway.
I was the one who suggested that I stop oxycontin (that was yrs. ago btw), I actually had to fight with the pain mgt. dr. for this. Still, it took another dr. to tell him he wanted them to stop in order to assess my pain level to see if surgery was needed.
I was the one who wanted to wean off of the Ambien CR, because it wasn't working well anymore. Again I was the one who suggested weaning off of the Ultram ER, because I felt there was a good chance my pain levels weren't bad anymore.
This part I really don't get... The LDN is for my Lyme treatment. It is supposed to help boost the immune system and get it regulated again.
I was only asking about the symptoms of a cold and sleepiness, because I wanted to know how to treat them. If they were from w/d I would just let them be and that's what I did. If not, I would increase a supplement or some such action to help the symptom.
I think it all depends on the person. I started taking a low dose of Klonopin years ago and still take the same dose even though my Doc said I would have to keep on increasing it.
So whatever works now? I say do it and worry about the rest later.
Steve.
Posts: 406 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Becoming dependent on medications is not solely dependent on your 'personality'. Addiction is more of the psychological issue - where one will actively seek out a drug fully knowing that it is having a negative impact on their life.
Drug dependency is different. One can be dependent, but not 'addicted'. These drugs do affect different people differently - some people build a greater tolerance and become more dependent than others.
I assure you there are people that have followed what appears to be your same medication protocol for many years before figuring out it was the drugs and the medical 'care' that was keeping them ill, not the lyme disease.
Look at patterns in the medication use and history. For some people it looks like they keep going back onto depressants in increasing strengths. You are building tolerance and dependence - that is why the Ambien CR stopped working for you after a while. It is a very seductive process - drug dependence.
I understand that you are being told the LDN is for your Lyme treatment. But, LDN works on your dopamine receptors - as do other drugs that cause addiction, tolerance and dependence. Some people are even given opiates to treat depression! Good intentions only go so far.
I do not believe that LDN 'boosts' the immune system, but rather startles it into overdrive for a while. Try that too long with a car and see what happens. The reason LDN is perceived to work can be compared to how people in intensely emotional conditions (soldiers in midst of battle, people seeing people crushed under a car...) release chemcials that prevent their body from responding to an immune trigger, which it would normally respond to under normal conditions. People don't get asthma attacks when they are in the process of being shot at... The LDN basically blocks opioid receptors. A very basic way to look at it is that opioids are your feel-good chemical. When they are lessened, your brain functions as if in a panic state. When one panics, your brain shuts down the chemcial messagers that allow you to have an immune response, such as an asthma attack.
This same physiological process has been stretched by some to mean that LDN boosts the immune system. That would be like saying if you induce panic attacks, it will boost your immune system. It does not. It only shuts it down for a while.
Even if you stopped the oxycontin, Lyrica, and other drugs, the roller coaster effect on your dopamine, gaba and other levels can keep you in a perpetual tailspin. The protracted withdrawal symptoms can mimic the symptoms of Lyme disease, and bartonella, babesia...
It is not a wise idea to be playing with your dopamine levels in the treatment of Lyme disease.
Posts: 42 | From Lymeland USA | Registered: Mar 2010
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