posted
I don't quite know how to explain this, but on some mornings, I suddenly drop - and then I have to lie down on the spot for about half an hour to an hour.
I just lie down and let it pass, whatever it is, but I cannot do one thing while in this state. Even talking is an effort.
Is this adrenal exhaustion, a herx, or a demon from hell????
-------------------- When we are no longer able to change a situation---we are challenged to change ourselves. (Viktor Frankl- Holocaust survivor) Posts: 460 | From Maine | Registered: Apr 2009
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
I had this for years and attribute it to adrenal exhaustion. Taking 500mg of pantothentic acid helped me a lot.(b-5)
Also sea salt and vitamin C are very helpful for adrenal exhaustion. Most of us are salt deficient and dehydrated and don't realize it.
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
glm, how did you determine that you needed b-5?
-------------------- When we are no longer able to change a situation---we are challenged to change ourselves. (Viktor Frankl- Holocaust survivor) Posts: 460 | From Maine | Registered: Apr 2009
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Learn about the function/purpose/existence of the Autonomic Nervous System and you will find your answer. Most doctors do not know the first thing about its functions and when toxicities roar, no matter which kind, it is out of balance and dysfunctional. It came to the point for me where I could not move a limb, a muscle, but remained in a total "non-moving paralytic state" for hours.
I am very well now. But it takes an open mind to be able to move away from the very disabling Lyme ghost. D E T O X -- even if you have to stand on your head and shake them out. Your battle is not Lyme - your battle is called toxins = toxic toxins that eventually kill.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
GIGI-other than AI-what do you recommend for detox for those of us who are extremely ill and can't do heat/sauna's etc.?
I'm seeing Dr. H for first app't onMay 5 (in very bad shape after crashing from my first drugs flagyl/difluan in December- MS symptoms (numbness, optic neuritis, gait, muscle weakness, shaky) plus a whole lot more (brain stuff, dizzy, twiching , jerking , burning) I was declining past 4 years but most of which has come on from crash from these drugs and 2 years ago on herbs/and still downwars spiral.-my genova liver panel shows my liver has phase i/ii problmes.
I don' think dr. H uses AI.
Posts: 200 | From New England | Registered: Dec 2009
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I am from the Northeast - Maine- and my doc is not on par with Klinghardt and the other stellar Lyme docs. But he is willing to read and put into practice anything I give him.
This is good and bad, because, as you know, too little knowledge about topics such as detox can produce very bad results in sick folk.
So, sometimes his detox ideas do not work out so well. In fact, the only detox I can tolerate at the moment is chlorella, and zeolite. (I just purchased a jar of apple pectin from amazon, which I'm sure will be ok too )
I've also started to juice some raw veggies - oh ya -I'm also getting my second quadrant of amalgams out next week, so I will have only 1 quad left to go.
So,I know you're not a doc, but are there some other things I could be doing now to help with detox before I start up the AI?
I am currently on a round of abx and some HH2 caps. I'm going to stop these on my next doc appt and then go on the drops.
Thnaks for your time and patience.
-------------------- When we are no longer able to change a situation---we are challenged to change ourselves. (Viktor Frankl- Holocaust survivor) Posts: 460 | From Maine | Registered: Apr 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Is there a startle of ANY kind that triggers the drop? From light, sound, movement - even if a slight sensory message, does your body feel a little adrenal rush from that?
The sudden drop could be an inner ear condition called Tumarkin's sudden otolithic crisis.
It also could be some kind of drop seizure and your body (brain/adrenal "shock" system) needs recovery time before it can move again.
This used to happen to me a lot. I can't go into further detail right now but inner ear involvement is frequent with lyme.
You might also check all your meds and see if any affect QT rhythm. This could be a long QT syndrome thing - or a combination of all things I've mentioned. QT problems can cause what appear to be drop seizures.
And . . . are you eating enough? Be sure you have enough complex carbohydrates - the kind that carry you through. If you are juicing, you may not be getting enough complex foods. Be sure to also eat the pulp as that will help with that
You may need mitochondrial support, too, for the energy center of each cell.
===============
It's VERY important to read about long QT syndrome (with great links to a PBS program on that) -and sympathetic nervous system stuff discussed here. Mitochrondrial issues, too.
And I can't leave without the saying that you should be evaluated for QT cardiac rhythm abnormalities - but read the Cardiac thread above, FIRST. Not all doctors do this test correctly.
And - if you have vertigo and this may be inner ear, LIVER support is vital. Being sure no drugs you take are on the unsafe list for porphyria is also very important.
Ginger can help in the meantime if inner ear is related. If startles trigger this, magnesium is every so much more important but Corydalis can help, too, in reducing kindling. You can read about that at PubMed.
You can search whatever meds you are on and see if any are on the unsafe list for porphyria. The Canadian and American groups each have a link to lists. At least two lists should be consulted.
The reason this is important is that excess porphyrins can cause seizures and also inner ear damage - and mitochondrial damage. Lyme patients often have problems with the Cytochrome P-450 liver detox pathway and when they do, excess porphyrins can cause problems of all kinds. -
[ 04-05-2010, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- One more thing: stay down when you have these episodes. Don't try to get up. Your brain, your adrenals seem to say you need to stay down. I was amazed when this used to happen to me that, once I learned not to move until my body felt ready, and I knew I needed to rest a bit - well, everyone around me wanted me to just hop and and do a jig!
If you go out with someone else, let them know this might happen and, if so, tell people to just chill out and get on with their lives.
Homeopathic ARNICA can help tremendously to support the adrenals out of the shock (even if the adrenals did not cause it, they take a hit and just don't have the capacity to work harder to get you back up right away).
Also, be very careful as you walk - you don't want to fall near a car that is ready to back up. I used to wear only dark grey or black so that a date with the sidewalk would not ruin my clothes.
But let's hope my experiences can help this be identified and rectified much sooner. If - no matter where you are or what you are doing - if you get a sense of the weakness coming on - sit or lie down immediately. I can't tell you how much that would have saved me from some injury.
Now, I know this can be very scary . . . and it may be that just an slight increase in sea salt will help (try very low first but do keep it on track if you start and it helps). The syncope/fainting from NMH (neurally mediated hypotension) is discussed in the cardiac thread above.
Well, it's a complex process to figure out what is going on but I do hope you get the QT evaluated by an excellent cardiac doctor (which would be so great if they were also LL).
ARNICA 30 c (I take 200 c - but 30 c is a decent start until you can consult with a good ND about this).
Get a couple - one for home, one for your pocket/purse. Put 3 pellets under your tongue ASAP afterward - or if you sense it coming, sit or lie down and put some under your tongue then, too.
=========
Other adrenal support as mentioned above also good. The ARNICA is for emergency recovery. -
[ 04-05-2010, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Sorry for so many posts. Mentioned above, this could be Tumarkin's Otolithic Crisis and if so, be sure to check all your meds against this these lists:
posted
Keebler, Geez! Just when I thought I was all caught up with my reading.
Triggers- maybe the breakfast which today was ham and eggs. Perhaps an egg allergy whch is possible. I eat them almost every day.
Last week I stole 2 of my daughters "Adrenal complex" which I took in the morning, and then I noticed that the crash was postponed until sometime around noon.
This thrilled me. SO I put myself on 2 pills a day for 3-4 days - - and then I started waking up at 2:30a.m. and can't get back to sleep.
So I tried 1 pill. No effect. Crashing comes back.Sleep is better.
As for other triggers, I will try to pay closer attention.
THanks for the links. Will def check those out.
J
-------------------- When we are no longer able to change a situation---we are challenged to change ourselves. (Viktor Frankl- Holocaust survivor) Posts: 460 | From Maine | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
This used to happen to my son. We would be hiking or just playing, and then freeze--couldn't move, had to get some food into him. He was diagnosed with hypoglycemia and started carrying glucose pills for just those situations.
We tried to use the glucose pills only in dire situations and just made sure that he had a small amount of protein at least every 2 hours. Plus, lots of water to help with digesting the proteins.
He is almost 16 now and seems to be fine, so I don't know if he just outgrew it or what. Or maybe he just knows to eat something every couple of hours to stay steady with his blood sugars.
Good luck. It is scary to witness, so I can only imagine what it must feel like to experience it.
Posts: 648 | From northeast | Registered: Feb 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- The HAM ! - from nitrates/nitrites (unless you got ham from a natural foods market from a pig that was treated well all through its life - and then ham that would not have any additives loaded on during processing).
Nitrates/nitrites short circuit the brain, especially for lyme patients who already have that neuro-hyper-excitability thing going on.
It may have triggered a sort of seizure. Sleep deprivation and the adrenal surges from the supplements could have also lowered the seizure threshold and then the ham was the added touch.
Also - be very careful with adrenal supplements, especially if they contain glandulars. Too much can short circuit your control board, too. Anything that boosts is not good. Gentle support that still allows for deep sleep at night.
No more nitrates/nitrites in anything. Check all your labels. In many ham and bacon brands . . . on salad bars at most restaurants . . . salad dressings, etc.
Naturally, you will find nitrites in many foods (especially red grapes) but its that unnatural boost from the additive world that is so damaging for us.
Now, if you got a good quality of ham (without additives), then it could anything. All of the above were likely involved with the years that I had this problem. It's hard to pin-point sometimes so you just have to cover all the bases.
Some brands of ham also contain MSG - that will trigger seizure episodes for many. MSG also hides behind many names. Check the label of the ham and google all the ingredients. MSG, by any name, should be totally avoided. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Looking back at your first post, you said: " . . . on some mornings, I suddenly drop. . . ."
Do you have that same ham every morning? Is it only of a morning when this happens?
~ James L. Wilson, ND, DC, PhD, Johnathan V. Wright, MD
About $10. And qualifies for free shipping with a total $25. Purchase at Amazon -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
Wow I Forgot all about this and it happened to me for years back over 5 years ago.
I used to just have to lay down no matter where I was and it was a weird feeling. Never figured out why and how to stop it and it just ended up slowly going away.
I wish we knew more of the whys of everything but it does all seem to keep pointing back to Toxins......
In whatever way you can get down loads.. Toxins or Bugs or Contaminates or whatever and top in taking whatever you can be aware of too... things can get better...
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
I had this happen to me very frequently before I treated with antibiotics (Ceftin) for Lyme.
A little over a year into antibiotic therapy, this symptom disappeared.
It was very scary - I wouldn't even be able to talk or think or open my eyes when it was at its worst.
posted
Keeb, The ham did come from a good source - whole foods. So no nitrates or dairy.
I've been organic for years, and most all our meat comes from the cows and chickens raised by a neighbor.
Tell me more about the dangers of glandulars. In my excitement over the adrenal complex (standard process) I ordered a case from my doctor.
Brilliant move. More fuel for the compost!
Anyway, what would you consider "gentle support" for the adrenals?
Yes, mornings are the worst. The crashes can come sometimes after morning chores - cleaning up, vacuuming, etc, then boom...I'm down for the count.
-------------------- When we are no longer able to change a situation---we are challenged to change ourselves. (Viktor Frankl- Holocaust survivor) Posts: 460 | From Maine | Registered: Apr 2009
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