posted
I meeting with an LLMD here in about a week. I suffered with severe Chronic Fatigue,brainfog, Headaches, burning eyes etc for the past three years. Ive had a million test and seen a million docs all leading up to pretty much doctors shaking there heads in confusion.The office staff of the LLMD im meeting with said she will be able to diagnose me the first visit just based on my symptoms and no labs. How is that possible? Just dont want treament for lymes if its not really lymes.
Posts: 56 | From California | Registered: Mar 2010
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
It's because Lyme disease is a clinical diagnosis. Labs are not needed, they help, but they are not required.
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posted
Your LLMD will do a massive ( I think I had 21 tubes drawn) amount of blood work during your 1st visit (as well as a thorough physical exam), but it's quite common for them to start you right away on an abx based on your symptoms during your first appt. Labs aid in diagnosis and treatment... once they get it back they may tweak your protocol and/or suggest certain supplements if you're deficient etc...
Try not to worry too much about it, She'll more than likely run tests for Lyme and Co-inf in that first round of labs (but often times, comes back neg because the tests are so poor). When you begin treatment, your body's response is a much better indicator to your LLMD than any Lyme test is, especially if your really symptomatic.
Best wishes on your appt! Murphy
Posts: 108 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Apr 2008
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I doubt you'll get any treatment for lymes....
cuz their ain't no such aminal!
Sorry, I just could'nt resist!
now Borrelia burgdoferi spirochete...now THAT'S a whole different story....
Heck....I think I could just about dia g nose them there folks that have that one....
They look lots like me!....when I was sicker.... that is!
LOL!
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Your LLMD will also look at your body for obvious signs of co-infections. There are too many body signs to list here.
I had 44 viles of blood drawn at first visit, which confirmed my LLMD's dignosis.
He also tested for hormones and metals.
Posts: 671 | From Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: Jun 2009
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Lyme Disease is pretty easy to spot once you "specialize" in it. While some people may be far less symptomatic and thus harder to diagnose, tests of exclusion and history really help narrow down the possibilities.
At any rate, if you have a lot of symptoms, it'll be pretty standard to your doctor.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
LLMD's have studied the research about Lyme, and usually have the experience of having treated many, many Lyme patients before. They treat people until they are better, so they follow people for several years sometimes.
An LLMD has the knowledge and experience to evaluate your symptoms and tell you whether they are or are not Lyme, without using blood tests, which are often negative even when you have it.
If you never had a rash, your blood test for Lyme is negative, and you don't remember a tick bite, then it can't be completely proven whether you do or don't have Lyme.
In that case, if your symptoms sound typical of what other Lyme patients have gone through, then you try Lyme treatment (antibiotics) and see how your body reacts. If you react to treatment in a way typical of people with Lyme, then that is a good confirmation that the diagnosis is correct.
A doctor who has not treated any Lyme patients until they got better (almost all doctors except LLMDs) simply does not have the experience to make a clinical diagnosis of Lyme, nor the experience to know if it can be ruled out.
-------------------- Don't forget to laugh! And when you're going through hell, keep going!
Bitten 5/25/2009 in Perry County, Indiana. Diagnosed by LLMD 12/2/2009. Posts: 756 | From Inside the tunnel | Registered: Jan 2010
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massman
Unregistered
posted
It is a clinical diagnosis as WildCondor posted above.
Blood tests are not needed for the diagnosis. They may be needed for other infections. Many tests for parasites are also not too accurate.
Lyme has learned to hide so well it mostly stays out of the blood after the initial exposure.
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IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
My LLMD diagnosed me with late stage neuro Lyme on my first visit. Then he sent for tests which came back CDC positive. He was right, without the labs. And since the labs are so often wrong, it IS a clinical diagnosis. That is what LLMDs are trained to detect.
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Either way any "lyme" test comes back to your doctor...
Ask to see and get a copy of your test requisition form and result.
Notice on the result you'll see a disclaimer of sorts, that denotes the test as being merely an
adjunct and should not be used to diagnose lyme disease/a clinical diagnosis is necessary.
The only problem with that of course is, the mainstream doctors, are afraid of prosecution
from various "opponents of lyme disease" backed up by ficticious evidence trumped up by the IDSA.
Even LLMD's are aware that, the very next clinical diagnosis and prescribed treatment of
the next lyme infected patient who walks out of his or her medical office, is subject to charges
of fraud or "over-zealous(diagnosis)of lyme disease, for profit rakeing reasons, among the
least. Should they make a clinical diagnosis.
It matters little how many symptoms, a patient may present. Even if their is a definite history
of a known tick bite; subsequent flu-like symptoms or any sort of rash;
whether the "bullseye" or any other post bite rash appearing on the patient.
Heck, I even heard one of the "diagnosing" mainstream television specialists in infectious
diseases state that, "if left untreated,
the human body is quite capable of resolving any type of infection/s delivered by tickbites.
Of course, the body may have sufficiently fought the infections into a dormant like
or
cystic type form of the Bb spirochete. So as to present no "real time"
(time surrounding known tick bites)symptoms.
Allowing these infections to disseminate so completely throughout every cell of every organ;
muscle; ligament; tenden etc etc etc... .
So that whenever the patients own immune system is so whipped and the adrenal glands so punked out that....
well....it's easily diagnosed as one of those "auto-immune diseases, we don't know much about"...
so they prescribe you some anti-depressants, because....they know,
"you gonna die pardner"!
"because I ain't a gonna lose my income and reputation as an ID or PCP",
and "they can't prove I'm guilty of anything"!
"Especially if I don't do anything"!
"Because, whenever ya do die..."
"I can call it something else anyway"!
"Even Dr "G" would'nt be able to conclusively determine that it was infestation of spirochetes
or any of the many coinfections or anything that immitated any number of diseases,
which present as a naturally occurring "COD"(cause of death)
or organ failure"!..."Even if she splits ya open and takes biopsey after biopsey,
till the deer come home"! "Seeing the little squiggly things all thru your dead carcass"!
No one can prove a darn thing...HE HEH! "Not even negligent homicide"!"No cause and effect".
"SO see ya"!
..."Would'nt want ta be ya"!
Good luck my friend...
"ain't no time to wonder why...
whooopie ---- --- ----- ---"!
Allow me a blast from the past! zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I have this concern too.Is it risky to start the lyme treatment even all the test back negative?
So how do we know we are on the right path?
Posts: 158 | From pittsburgh | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- The risk is in not treating lyme if it's there. It can be fatal. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Why not do some reading on lyme disease and the coinfections that go along with it. Then, when you see that you have a great many of the lyme disease symptoms, it will start to all make sense to you.
The best document to give you an education on this complex disease is the Dr. Burrascano Lyme Treatment Guidelines found here:
Look at pages 9-10 for a list of the various symptoms lyme and its coinfections can cause. Look at page 26 to sort out the symptoms by infections.
You will learn a lot by reading this document. For example, you will learn that generally a person is not infected only with lyme disease, but also with other diseases such as babesiosis and bartonella (the so-called coinfections). Once a doctor has seen hundreds of people with these 3 diseases, he can tell them all of the crazy symptoms they have that no doctor has been able to explain or treat.
People with lyme disease generally get normal blood test results no matter what type of doctor they go to. But, they have very unusual symptoms that definitely point to this disease.
As an example, lyme is one of the few diseases that affects many bodily systems, such as the brain, the digestive system, the muscles, the gynecological system, the joints, the eyes, and on and on and on. So, when a patient names symptoms that encompass the stomach, the joints, the brain, etc. that is a good clue that it must be lyme disease.
Not everyone has every symptom of lyme disease. The longer you have the disease, the more bodily systems it attacks.
Until we get better lyme disease tests, the best way to make a diagnosis is to get to a doctor who has seen hundreds of patients with lyme disease and give that doctor the most complete description of your symptoms that you can give.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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