posted
So I have it. I fight it. It clobbers me every day. I went to a shrink this past week. She doesn't know as much about lyme as I would like. I'm not too sure I want to go on psych meds.
I went for lymph drainage and craniosacral yesterday and it did nothing. I'd heard massage helps with depression.
I have suicidal thoughts. Despite having hundreds of friends on FB, like many I'm sure, I've realized I only really have between 2-5 friends. I haven't been able to get to any local support groups in real time and space because I'm too sick every time. I'm a little worried no one is going to respond to this post.
I feel like there's nothing I can do about it except wait for my lyme treatment to start healing me.
Anyway, I'm not sure what I'm looking for by posting this. Emotional support? Suggestions on what to do? How people have dealt with this themselves?
I prefer to be funny, not to be a debbie downer but what can I say?
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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What medication are you taking? I had never experienced this before until increasing Mepron, and had a day with these feelings, and immediately backed off the medication. I was extremely fatigued, like the energy was sucked out of me, and very down. I haven't had the problem since.
I hope that you can find a solution as easy as this...
Posts: 964 | From san diego | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
I started on treatment with an LLMD in early Oct 2009. The deep depression began with that--with heavy abx treatment. I've been on different abxs. Now I'm on tetracycline 1500 mg/day and fluconazole 200 mg/day. I have to add something I think in two weeks.
thanks for responding nspiker.
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
have you ever taken a short break in all that time? I found that my deep depression lifted when I took breaks, and didn't return when I re-started the drugs I was on. I think this happened twice in a year and some months. The worst of it was Mepron/Biaxin, though for me it is the Biaxin that causes this, I think.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
Puppy,
So sorry that you're feeling this way. It sucks and I have been there before....the deep depression part...this was before my diagnosis.
If indeed you are experiencing deep,'clobbering' depression EVERYDAY along with suicidal ideations, I would urge you to consider a anti-depressant.
It doesn't mean that you have to be on them forever. But there is the potential that an anti-depressant may bring you out of the abyss...
and propell you to the emotional state of mind that fighting this disease requires. Fighting this illness AND debilitating depression at the same time is next to impossible.
I would seriously consider a medication to get you through this. No shame in that.
best to you, feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Yes, massage can help is so very many ways.
What is your liver support? Millk Thistle is the most common one and the one that Dr. B suggests.
That makes a huge difference. An overwhelmed liver will result in pain, depression, insomnia, etc.
Fluconazole can be hard on the liver - you need support and protection when taking that. Beta Carotene can help, too.
Also, as tetracyclines can be hard on the ears, liver support can help protect the hearing/balance center.
In addition to liver support, are you taking enough magnesium and fish oil. SAMe may help. Magnesium deficiency is very common with lyme and low magnesium levels can cause depression.
Curcurmin/Turmeric can help on many levels.
If you are taking melatonin for sleep, that can cause intense depression in some. For me, with repeated trials at various times, after day 3, I'm ready to jump.
Also many antidepressants have an opposite effect and can cause depression for many, especially those with stressed livers. Many sleep meds can also cause depression and liver stress.
. . . In addition, curcumin reversed the stress-induced increase in the levels of serum corticosterone, the primary hormone secreted during the stress response. . . .
====================
ADRENAL SUPPORT is key to lessening depression, too.
Cordyceps is recommend here:
This is included in Burrascano's Guidelines, but you may want to be able to refer to it separately, too:
posted
MariaA, I don't feel that I can take a break right now because I've made 0 progress. I've had some breaks here and there, it hasn't been non-stop abx.
Keebler, I'm taking all kinds of supps. Milkthistle included.
I feel like if I go to the neuro-psych pros they'll put me on meds for sure. Not sure I want more side effects and a numbed out feeling. I guess the argument is that that's better than where I am.
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
Hi Sickpuppy,
I'm really sorry that you are feeling this way. I understand completely. I currently am on Malarone and a small amount of Mepron which I believe is causing depression.
Also if I don't sleep I can feel down.
I'll say a prayer for you. That's about all I can do from here.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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lyme in Putnam
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11561
posted
I've been on anti-depressants for years. You have to do whats good for you. This disease affects your psyche, you have to be stronger than it. One minute at a time. I live the numb feeling, I had no choice. I hate it but it happens - you will come through. Keep telling yourself that. Feel better
-------------------- He took u to it, He'll you through Posts: 2837 | From NE. | Registered: Apr 2007
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
If you see a good psychiatrist, the meds you will be given for your depression will not cause a numbed out feeling.
I encourage you to go to a good psychiatrist because you do not have to put up with this horrible depression while treating lyme disease.
Generally, side effects with the antidepressants are temporary (like headache for a few weeks). Then, you are good to go.
You would take pain pills for debilitating physical pain. So, take antidepresants for debilitating psychological pain.
I have done it and I am very glad I did.
The first few times I tried anti-depressants, I was given them by an internist or gyn. They overwhelmed me. I had no life on them. I could only take them for 3 days max.
So, they all told me I needed a psychiatrist to help me. The psych knows a lot more about dosages, etc.
Sure enough, the psych listened to all the meds I had tried and how they overwhelmed me. Then, he gave me what he described as a "ridiculously small dose" of a med as a starter. It was wonderful. I took a pill, and woke up the next day knowing that my living hell was going to be over. The pill worked that quick for me!
With this man's help, I was back to mental health. After 9 months, I tapered off the med and was fine. It was a great experience.
But, this guy was very good, and expensive, and very, very smart and nice. Only saw him twice or 3 times I believe. He had me call him every week as I was starting on the med. Then, when I got to the right dosage (with his guidance), he gave me plenty of refills and I was off on my own. It was just wonderful!
i'm mulling all this over. nothing in my body works right now so i know my brain chemistry is just one more thing malfunctioning. it's just all so hard to take on top of the pain and sick feelings etc etc.
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
TF - What was the magic medicine that helped your depression?
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
For me, it was 50 mg of zoloft.
I recently learned that zoloft also has some pain-killing properties, so my neighbor with serious back issues just stays on it forever to help with back pain.
Her ortho gave it to her for this reason.
So, it sounds perfect for lymies.
Just know that these meds affect every person differently, so it is some trial and error to find the one that works for you.
But, it doesn't have to take long to find the right one.
After 3 days on the first med the psychiatrist gave me, I called and told him how it made me feel and he switched me to the zoloft. That did the trick.
I had tried about 4 different anti-depressants before this--Paxil, Lexapro, can't remember the rest.
The doc will pick the med for you based on the symptoms you describe. My mind was racing, worrying about every unimaginable thing, thinking of everyone who had died, and other mentally ill trains of thought. I said every minute of the day was torture, a white knuckle ride. So, he labeled it an agitated depression.
I woke up after taking my first pill, and I just had a normal amount of thoughts--the racing was gone! The worrying was gone. It was such a wonderful day, I will never forget it.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
I have no experience with psych meds or counselling that I can offer advice in that way, but somethings have worked for me.
Exercise helps huge. If you're able to, it can really boost your spirit.
Also aggressive detox reversed negative thoughts/feelings for me.....such as colonics and FIR saunas. Alot of my crazy feelings were related to the high toxin load I had.
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
I was depressed and suicidal during my whole first year of Lyme treatment. Seriously, I wanted to die. My husband was terrified.
I was treating aggressively for Babesia. Do you know your co-infections? I've heard that suicidal depression is common for Babs.
I tried to tough it out, then finally thought "This is ridiculous. Why am I putting myself through this?"
I decided to go on an antidepressant, whether I could tell if it was working or not. Obviously, my brain was a neurotransmitter wasteland. I figured I could at least support my poor organ.
I tried Wellbutrin. Nothing. Then, like TF, I went on Zoloft 50 mg. I couldn't tell much at first, other than that I felt trippy if I upped my dose.
After a couple weeks, the depression started to lift. I had good days and bad days. After a few months, I had mostly good days. I was able to increase to 75 mg, and haven't struggled with severe depression since then.
After 24 months of treatment, I gave up the Zoloft. It was making me sleepy, so I figured I had achieved too much serotonin. A miracle! Now I take 5-HTP in the a.m.
You can get through this. Consider medication. Are you sleeping? Sleep makes such a huge difference.
I really isolated myself during this time. In hindsight, I should have spent more time with people, even if they had no idea what I was going through!
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
The highest doses of Prozac allowed has very much helped my sis (who has lyme).
Prozac works by keeping serotonin levels higher longer.
It may take several days before it truly kicks in.
It seems to have also protected her brain (clear thinking!), but her joint destruction continues.
She does NOT have "neuro lyme" symptoms.
(She was misdx'd and given steroids initially = disaster.)
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
I can only say I know how you feel. I am on Bicillin shots right now and did them once before and they cause physco levels of depression for me. Racing thoughts, worry, hopelessness, crying, anger, sucidal thoughts, obsessive thoughts of wellness to the absolute overwhelming stage, just crazy - you name it, my mind is going through it.
I know if I stop Bicillin it will subside SOME - but I am trying hard to push through. I hope I can.
I have been afraid to try any anti-deppressent after having a horrible experience on Prozac.
I do not know what to do. Lots of outside stress going on for me too, I sometimes feel like I am gonna break. I know this, it has to stop. I have considered SAM-E and heard it is good.
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I totally agree with TF and the others that suggested antidepressants.
For me, they don't make me feel numbed, they make me feel like my old self, before being sick or depressed.
If you haven't seen a good psychiatrist, you definitely should, in my opinion.
Why allow yourself to suffer? You need to treat EVERYTHING if you are going to get better.
I just posted something on someone else's thread in General Support...I will copy it and post it here:
"Personally, I think meds like SSRI's are crucial.
I have spoken personally with the famous Lyme researcher from Columbia University, Dr. F, and he believes that SSRI's are actually protective of the brain when it's going through something like Lyme, and that those meds will help the brain heal.
There is no reason not to be on them, in my opinion. They helped me through some hard times....I wonder why I never took them sooner. Wish I had. I am off them now, and going off was not hard at all.
So sorry about what you're going through....please get the help you need, even if these feelings only come in cycles, it is worth it so the cycles don't happen! It's not healthy for your brain to be so deprived of proper functioning. And it is miserable to go though.
A good psychiatrist that is professional, educated and up-to-date, and takes you seriously is the way to go. Please get help and stop trying to do this on your own!
There are so many misconceptions out there....but in essence, they are just helping your brain do what it should be doing naturally.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about my experiences.
Hugs!!!!! "
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
Hoosiers51 - I love your post. This was exactly my reasoning when I chose an SSRI. My brain was not functioning normally and I didn't want to damage essential pathways. I want my organs fully functional when I am through this journey.
That said, everyone responds differently to antidepressants. You have to do what works for you and what feels right.
To everyone struggling with Lyme depression, hang in there and keep trying different options. It does get better.
posted
thanks for the additional posts. i just had another sobbing meltdown with ranting. husband got it all on the phone. i get scared my husband is gonna give up on me--i feel so badly about how i am. i've been staying with my elderly parents in the suburbs and i feel totally isolated. i have a hard time getting people to respond to my calls, texts, emails, and things are complicated and joyless here for other reasons.
tomorrow i'm going to make an appointment with the neuro psych doc i found a bit of a drive away. she's an associate of Columbia's Dr.F so i bet she's excellent. She had a voice i liked on the phone.
i think it's coming this: lyme has taken so much away from me, i can't let it take any more. i feel like it won't be satisfied until i'm dead. if i don't stop this, it's gonna destroy what few relationships i have left because i'm miserable to be around.
sometimes i just can't even believe all this is happening ESPECIALLY that it's happening to lots of people. it just really oughtta be illegal--lyme should be illegal with its cruel and unusual punishment.
thanks for the kind words. i REALLY really needed them. and just as i appreciate it, it makes me sad that all of you have been through such awful stuff too.
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
thanks Limeaid. I'm really sorry for your loss. Depression is a scary thing. There're days I try to find someone to talk to and I can't get anyone to respond. I can't drive because of vertigo etc. so I get stuck in my parent's house in a town where I don't know anyone. Anyway, I feel glad to have found support on lymenet today.
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
I'd be depressed if I lived with my parents! (Meant as a joke, as in "the last place any of us expected to be in life is back with our parents, who are probably a little crazy to boot...)
You said it - "Lyme takes so much from us..."
But we are more than our Lyme - so much more.
I'm glad you're going to the neuro-psyche doc. Good luck!
posted
Ha, BoxerMom. Yeah, I used to have nightmares about life falling apart somehow and having to return home. I feel like a teenager. I can't drive, I have to ask for stuff I need, I get told 'No' a lot. It's also like being in a hotel. I don't have my stuff and they only cleared out one drawer for me.
On the other hand, my apt in the city is noisy 24/7 with the crazy neighbors going berserk, elementary school next door with kids screaming bloody murder all day long, mice, pigeons, mold, roaches, and tiny like a shoe box. It's like Guantanamo--weird sleep deprivation and filth.
It's just a whole combination nightmare and no good brain chemistry. The worst thing is my parents won't let my husband bring the cat for a visit. Eeeeeeeeeeeeek! I miss the darn cat!!!!
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
All I can say is, of course you are depressed! this sucks and is really hard work. Nothing makes me crazier than pain, it works you and wears you down. Bugs are seriously depressing! yeah, I get it. there are days when I joke about guns. I am not allowed to own one because I have those days!
What I really want to share is Deprenyl (really old fashion MAO) and not maoI..protects the brain is given to alzheimers patients and actually my all time magic bullet- Lithium Orotate! I was so deeply depressed and suicidal and have been on at least 12 different regular psych meds over the last 25 years and this is a miracle for me!!! I recently stopped the lithium for 2 weeks and was a weepy dark cloud and 5 days back on the sun is out again! Lithium orotate is not a RX med and I take 10mgs twice daily. the Deprenyl is rx and I take 2mgs twice daily too. you can research it at www.selegiline.com thats the other name for it. really cool stuff my naturapath rx'd for me. for what its worth, don't let the bugs win!
-------------------- AzDaisy life requires action Posts: 58 | From Tucson, AZ | Registered: Apr 2010
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
I think Lithium Orotate is in the Top Ten Lyme Disease Treatments book. I tried it, but was impatient. I didn't wait for it to kick in. Some of the NDs in my town use it. I've heard it's very safe.
Isn't it Lithium in the water that makes all the tourists go to Vilcabamba, Ecuador, to lie around and bliss out? Sounds great to me!
I wouldn't mix Lithium with other psyche meds til I was stabilized. Too much at once and you don't know what's working.
So you're "hangin' with the 'rents" for a while, S.Puppy. Could always be worse...At least you have a drawer! (Haha)
posted
thank you so much azdaisy. I tried to talk to my first LLMD about the lithium orotate but he didn't really respond. I know it's OTC but where is a good place to get a quality brand--if there's a difference--? Is it something to administer with a doc even though it's OTC? I read about it in the Top Ten Book but don't remember there being any details.
yes, boxermom--it COULD be worse. i AM lucky since I don't have energy etc to collect and prepare food or clean up. i think my husband would just make me eat canned soup all the time! i can't really get comfortable with my dependent state.
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Have you been assessed for Bartonella? That seems to cause a deeper depression than most of the other tick-borne infections. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Keebler, I've had two LLMDs tell me I have babs and bart even though my blood work is negative. My NAET acupressure practitioner thinks so too.
My current LLMD seemed not to think so because of the bloodwork--"there's no evidence for it." I have an appointment in a week so I'll ask again.
And it's not just depression. It's anxiety and panic too but less so since I've eliminated a lot of environmental and situational stressors. If I were in the city trying to do stuff I'd be having panic attacks at least every day.
I just backed off drinking 1 cup 3 x day of pau d'arco tea for a week. I'd been drinking a half cup 3 x day. It was herxing me pretty hard. Lots of hot flashes in my core, very sore, intense stinging in my feet and calves, twitches galore, and super tired. Today was a little better--day 2 without drinking any.
I don't think I have the detoxing thing down yet. I also just ran out of chlorella. Taking milkthistle, allicillin, tons of vit c, NAC, whey, ALA. It's hard to know if anything is working.
If my new doc doesn't think I have bart and if I do have it, it's gonna be a tough road. Do people ever come back positive on retesting after some months of treatment?
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I had some severe depression even before I started treatment. I also had suicidal thoughts, and not just because I was feeling down about being sick, this was deep, dark depression. So far I've only tested positive for Babesia and Bartonella so I know one or both of those caused it.
You say that you only really have a few friends. I'm the same way. Good thing you only really need one good friend. Call up the friend that you are closest to and try to meet up with them. If you are too sick to go anywhere see if they can visit you. If they are a good friend they will come and see you.
I don't know if you take epsom salt baths. I do every few days and while I lay back in the tub I close my eyes and think about how life will be once I am cured. It's relaxing and uplifting.
-------------------- Bart and Babesia seropositive Current tx: Rifampin, Biaxin, Bactrim DS, Artemisinin, Resveratrol (japanese knotweed), Red Root, Boneset Posts: 168 | From PA | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
Hullo there Sickpuppy!! I prefer and feel most confident in biotech brand Lithium Orotate and found that as of today http://www.springvalleyvitamins.us/ has the best price! you can also to thier website http://www.bio-tech-pharm.com/ they have tons of helpful things all in one place. Lithium orotate is not like RX Lithium and does not need blood levels to be checked. I really want to acknowledge you and how hard it is to be in the swirling toilet of depression and good job for asking for support!! We support you!!! A groovy hippy spot,outside of Sante Fe, Ojo Caliente has arsenic and iron water to bathe in..and lithia water to drink...yeah bliss and cheap!!! dreaming is a great thing too! do not let the bugs win! nor quit before your healing!! that goes for all of us Lymies!!
-------------------- AzDaisy life requires action Posts: 58 | From Tucson, AZ | Registered: Apr 2010
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
Azdaisy - I am now officially in love with the phrase "swirling toilet of depression." So apt.
posted
I'm so glad I posted this. It has helped me. I was a little skeptical about getting emotional type support online but you've all proved me wrong.
Ian you're so right. The friend thing! I'm a little like a teenager about it. People are busy, they don't know what having late stage lyme, or any serious illness, really means. You don't REALLY know until it happens to you. I have to be a little more thick-skinned about it and move on.
The problem with my situation is that I'm not living in my home with my husband in my town. I'm in a town where I don't know anyone, it's at least 50 mins by train for people to visit, and I can't drive or get out much (except to doctor appointments). I'll have to keep working on this part.
AzDaisy, thanks for the links for LO. I'll check it out. Not too sure about arsenic baths since I discovered I had arsenic poisoning this time last year. Better now. I'll stick with epsom salts!
Still trying to get a neuro psych appt. One isn't taking new clients and other 2 aren't getting back to me. Not like there are tons to choose from. Keeping at it.
There really need to be more LL docs of all sorts and more LLMDs. There's just a flood of people who're sick. I keep watching the number of lymenet members go up and up. It's all so crazy. Where is everyone gonna go for treatment? (This last paragraph is all sort of rhetorical).
Lots of love people!!!
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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