heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
hi all,
i had extremely mild tinnitus before starting zithromax four weeks ago, but now it's much more noticeable, and really quite bothersome at night (during the day i don't notice it nearly as much). the tinnitus became pronounced when i increased my zith dose from 1.5 250mg pills to 2. i backed down to 1.5 pills about five days ago but the ear ringing has yet to subside.
i'm seeing my doc next week and will be sure to mention this to her, as i know zith can be ototoxic. the problem is i'm treating babesia (art/mepron/zith), and can't take biaxin because of other contraindications, so what options do i have? has anyone used mepron without biaxin or zithromax? i'd love to hear alternatives, if there are any. what about roxithromycin?
also, did anyone experience tinnitus on zithromax but stick it out because the symptom wasn't completely unbearable? if so, did it abate when you stopped the med?
posted
I take zith 250 mg most days and 500 mg when I need to boost the blood level. Getting tinnitus from that alone, and bactrim I am taking seems to make it a little worse. Also flagyl which I only pulse every other week may also cause this. The good news, if I lay off Zith for a few days it gets much better so for me it seems to be reversible. Also is not adversely affecting my hearing. Since I am getting a benefit I will not stop taking the zith.
Beachinit
-------------------- Ideas not advice. Posts: 448 | From Downeast Maine | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
I had never had tinnitus til I went on zithromax. It lessened when I stopped, but has never gone completely away. It also made my ears more suseptible to reacting to noise and other meds. I hope yours goes away.
Take care, diana
Posts: 857 | From northern california | Registered: Dec 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- If you must take zith, Liver Support is ever so much more vital. What about IV Glutathione to help reduce the toxicity level?
3/4 of the way done page one (link below) are liver support links. I know you are also on mepron so, normally, milk thistle is not used. Just whatever else you do, be sure it covers the bases.
But, if your increased liver support is not enough, your hearing really matters and all efforts to find a different medicine should be made. Zith can cause deafness, even at a low dose. It can be permanent - or not. No one can predict.
For many, the tinnitus did improve after lyme treatment with zith. For some, it was permanent. Same with other damage to the vestibular system. No one has any way of predicting who does better.
Be sure you are avoiding all other ototoxic meds, including: aspirin, acetaminophen, and (sometimes) even garlic and allicin due to the s. acid in that.
[ 04-22-2010, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Be sure you are avoiding all other ototoxic meds, including: aspirin, acetaminophen, and (sometimes) even garlic and allicin due to the salicylic acid in garlic extract.
Also, many common meds - and over the counter products are ototoxic. More at the links below. ----------
Ototoxicity--The Hidden Menace; Part I: Lives in Upheaval
� November 2003 by Neil Bauman, Ph.D.
Excerpts:
What Is Ototoxicity?
To many doctors, ototoxicity just means hearing loss or tinnitus. Others consider only drug side effects that affect the inner ear as being ototoxic. However, Stedman's Medical Dictionary defines ototoxicity as the "property of being injurious to the ear."
Therefore, any side effect of a drug that damages our ears in any way is ototoxic whether it damages the outer, middle or inner ear.
. . . hearing loss . . . tinnitus, dizziness, vertigo and numerous other cochlear and vestibular (balance) problems . . .
There are at least 743 drugs that are known to be ototoxic. Here are just 84 of them:
. . . BENZODIAZEPINES such as Diazepam (Valium) . . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
thanks everyone for your thoughts. up for more ideas.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Q: [could] artemisinin [be] contributing to the tinnitus?
Absolutely. Artemisinin uses the cytochrome P-450 liver detox pathway and when that is pushed, excess porphyrins build up and that is one major cause of tinnitus.
Extra liver support is required with artemisinin. More detail here about what can help (Beta Carotene is best) -and be sure to see the Secondary Porphyria link:
Porphyria Thread -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
I have had tinnitus and hearing loss for a long time. However, when I took Zithromax, the tinnitus got screamingly loud! And it took me quite a long time to put two and two together (surprisingly). I didn't know that it was ototoxic.
Finally my LLMD took me off it. Supposedly it is reversible. But it has been 6 or 7 months, and it hasn't decreased at all! And my hearing is REALLY bad now. Wasn't great at all before, the hearing loss isn't just from the zith, but it got worse---to the point that I need a hearing aid.
And, would you believe, when I went to the ENT this week about my hearing, he said zithromax and the macrolides aren't ototoxic! Well, I know better.
Be careful, to have it not go away is really bad. I have the Ototoxic Drug book that Keebler recomends, and most meds are ototoxic to varying degrees---many of them a lot.
And I didn't know that Artemesinin was ototoxic---yikes! I'm on that now. It's really difficult.
Posts: 3792 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
looking back at my records, I was on zithro and mepron, not sure which is to blame. I started zithro 8/12 and stooped 8/29 due to tooth discoloration. Kept on the mepron til 9/20 when left tinnitus arrived, followed by right side 11/3(while on no meds).
I had done 10 days of artemesinin the prior july but stopped due to gi issues. So maybe for me it was a combo of factors, I'd also tested with poor liver detox pathways in the past and wasn't on any support.
Do read the info from Keebler, very knowledgable about how to protect your ears/hearing from all angles.
Take care, diana
Posts: 857 | From northern california | Registered: Dec 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Diana, Thanks. I'm just trying to get my ears back - and hope to prevent for others the torture that vestibular damage can cause on so many levels.
Rumigirl,
Your ear doctor, like most, has not gone very deep with his study of ototoxicity. I'm glad you got Bauman's book.
His work is tops and I'm amazed at the doctors who are unfamiliar with his work.
Artemesinin, itself -as far as I know - is not be considered ototoxic but, in someone with liver dysfunction, the result can be to varying degrees. I don't think I'd say it is ototoxic - unless that is in Bauman's book (I just ordered it now. I've been relying on his website but glad to finally have the book on the way as it is supposed to cover so much more than on his site).
Back to Artemisinin - my caution is that it can cause tinnitus in some. Anyone with a stressed liver needs to be more careful because if any level of porphyria is involved.
Porphyrin excess can kill nerve cells. If the porphyrins are controlled, that changes things for the better. Excess porphyrins are what makes some drugs (and even alcohol) far more toxic. And that goes back to the health of one's liver. -
[ 04-23-2010, 04:12 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
My 13 year old had increased tinnitus with zith, but it got better when he finished the zith.
Hang in there, sweet, talented, gal. You are AWESOME!
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
I have had tinnitus and hearing loss for a long time. However, when I took Zithromax, the tinnitus got screamingly loud! And it took me quite a long time to put two and two together (surprisingly). I didn't know that it was ototoxic.
Finally my LLMD took me off it. Supposedly it is reversible. But it has been 6 or 7 months, and it hasn't decreased at all! And my hearing is REALLY bad now. Wasn't great at all before, the hearing loss isn't just from the zith, but it got worse---to the point that I need a hearing aid.
And, would you believe, when I went to the ENT this week about my hearing, he said zithromax and the macrolides aren't ototoxic! Well, I know better.
Be careful, to have it not go away is really bad. I have the Ototoxic Drug book that Keebler recomends, and most meds are ototoxic to varying degrees---many of them a lot.
And I didn't know that Artemesinin was ototoxic---yikes! I'm on that now. It's really difficult.
Posts: 3792 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
thanks for your thoughts & wisdom, friends.
i saw my alternative lyme practitioner today (she does ART testing), and she lowered both my zith and art doses slightly, and increased my liver support. my liver is definitely stressed but with a new herbal liver formula plus a couple other goodies added to my protocol (cilantro, eleuthero), my body shifted to a healing happy state. so, fingers crossed.
posted
I am taking art , zith, bactrim , doxy, right now and when I added the doxy or bactrim to zith, the tinnitus seemed more pronounced. Sometimes I run a check and skip zith for 1 or 2 days and the tinnitus comes down about 50% also I do not have any hearing loss. So I will tolerate the tinnitus and continue the zith. Just finishing 3 months of zith and bactrim and this is fourth 3 day course of artemisinin. (and 4 th day adding back doxy due to knee sx that persisted). I do not want my glands to swell up again and figure I need 1 more month at least to put Bart in remission. I can't attribute the tinnitus to Art. just makes me blah, with yawning a lot.
Beachinit
-------------------- Ideas not advice. Posts: 448 | From Downeast Maine | Registered: Jul 2009
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