lymeladyinNY
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10235
posted
I started detoxamin last week along with boluoke. I am so sick since I started! I feel really toxic. Is this normal? And if so, how long can I expect to feel this horrible?
I thought I was going to die last night I was so miserable.
Thanks for any voices of experience/knowledge!
- Lymelady Julie
-------------------- I want to be free Posts: 1170 | From Endicott, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- It nearly killed me. Increased severity of sound triggered seizures - and it lowered the seizure threshold to unimaginative lows.
It also greatly messed up what little inner ear balance I had going for me at that time. I felt poisoned, for sure. Hit between the eyes with a 2-ton brick.
I tried this 3 different times, months apart. Same reaction. And it took weeks to get back to my "normal" from that. After the second use, It did nearly kill me as I fell into a shop window from a mere startle that, normally, would have just tossed me off track a bit.
The morning after the first use, I felt clear-headed, though. Too bad it was a sharp spiral from there.
The ND who suggested it said he's seen good success with others. I've since read of others who did well with it. But, that ND told me nothing else about all the considerations I learned later.
EDTA must be accompanied by other binders. That it can redistribute. Some say EDTA is great; other say toxic. Some do it with lots of back-up; some with very little.
I have done okay with DMSA, in moderation, though.
I've had horrible reactions from other metal products though. PCA-Rx (an oral spray) also really nearly did me in. Again, with several different tries.)
Heavy metal detox is best done with a LL doctor who really understand all the complexities of heavy metal detox in someone with other toxicity issues like lyme.
However, most of us can't even find or afford a LLMD and the money just is not there for professional care of this matter.
I'm dizzy from this aspect of self-education. Even with high mercury and cadmium tests, my GP is not even phased. So, we're usually on our one or need to find other doctors who do get it.
There is discussion of heavy metal treatment in the radio interview below. But, when I looked up the wonderful product, it was nearly my monthly income. No way affordable for most people.
I am also very fond of all the chinese teapills that are so inexpensive and I have a selection from which to choose/tensor and most of them work like a charm, especially for keeping liver/kidney open when detox is pushing things.
Some of the binders that were mentioned are actually mobilizers, not binders, and one has to be very careful using any of them, as you mentioned.
The actual binders do not mobilize or stir up metals. They are taken, to form bulk, to be waiting downline to wrap up eventual metal molecules and carry them out in the stool in order to avoid reabsorption and redistribution.
I will mark what I consider binders only:
Activated Charcoal (Binder) Algas Metal Detox Liquid Extract, NutraMedix
Alpha Lipoic Acid CheleX by Xymogen
Chemet Prescription (Lead)= DMSA Chlorella (Partially binder, mobilizes some metals from extracellular spaces)
Cilantro (tincture is serious brain detox, when rubbed into skin especially - has to be taken very late in metal detox phase and very carefully - is not a binder - )
DMSA Detoxamin
EDTA Jarrow's Heavy Metal Detox
NAC Modified Fruit Pectin (binder)
Metal Magnet By Enzymatic Therapy Modifilan - Pure Brown Seaweed Extract
Natural Cellular Defense by Waiora Nutramedix Zeolite - detox lead and nickel
Nurtramedix Zeolite HP Parsley Tincture
Phospholipid Exchange (carrier, containing EDTA) Vitamin C Found to Lower Levels of Lead in Blood
Unless I commented on these as binders, I would consider all the others as mobilizers to be used with great caution and with guidance from someone who knows.
Never detox metals from the brain until after the gut and other parts have been worked on.
If you use cilantro for the brain while the rest of the body is still heavy metal toxic, it can cause real problems when the metals are forced down from the brain and move into the other still loaded body compartments. You will have major collisions.
Binders are:
Chlorella, Pectin, chitosan, betasitosterol, charcoal, potatoes, clay, and some of the mixed fibers that are available.
Sorry I mislead you: The walnuts of course have a lot of fiber, but they avoid for me ever being constipated when taking binders. Cholestyramine for instance can be very constipating and may need something alongside to avoid that.
. . .
Take care.
P.S. Metals are minerals and minerals are metals. So whatever binds metals also binds your good minerals. Yes, as Terry said, take them away from each other.
Binders should be taken 30 minutes before meals, or at bedtime. I found a very reasonable chitosan at Swanson Vitamins which can be taken with the meal.
(GiGi) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lymeladyinNY
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10235
posted
Hi Keebler, thanks for the information. My LLMD is the one who prescribed detoxamin. I feel confused about what to do. Sometimes when I read stuff on Lymenet I don't understand what I'm reading.
I'm sorry to say I don't understand GiGi's post. I even read it in context with the other posts and I'm still not "getting" what I'm reading.
I used to be a bright gal, but, of course, those days are long gone!
I think I will give the detoxamin another week. If things are just as horrible then, I will call my LLMD. I'm very sorry you fell into a shop window - how awful.
Yes, the expense of all these treatments is just too, too much. It's hard to keep the spirits up sometimes.
- Lymelady Julie
-------------------- I want to be free Posts: 1170 | From Endicott, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I would agree with keebler, EDTA should be taken with additional binders. Supposedly it does not do a good job with mercury but works well for lead and some other heavy metals if taken orally however as keebler said, there is some controversy surrounding EDTA.
I'm on small doses of lipophos edta (less than 1/10th of a normal dose). I am taking biopure microsilica 2X per day (relatively expensive and 2X's the dose), 6 tablets of charcoal before bed and then I added a dose of clay in the mornings because I still felt toxic. I'm having some symptoms that are clearly related to heavy metals but they are slowy going away.
Please be careful when dealing with heavy metals. You can end up with problems for a long time if treatment isn't handled carefully.
You might try adding charcoal before bedtime (take far away from everything else) and see if that helps with your symptoms. Best to clear it with your LLMD though.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Detoxamin is a rectal suppository, and that is supposed to be absorbed faster, better than oral EDTA. Keeping that in mind, I cut them in half. I still had trouble. But, then, I knew nothing about all the other stuff that I should have been doing along with it. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
I was really sick when first starting detoxamin too. Super toxic and poisoned. The only thing that took the edge off for me was a Vit C IV.
It was so severe that I stopped for two weeks. When I restarted I use them every third night instead of second.
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
Use 1/2 the lowest detoxamin dose available and start again.....
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
I started Bolouke first and definitely felt very weak/ tired for the first 3 weeks. Then I started using Detoxamin every third night, initially again I felt very tired, but I feel like this is improving now and I continue on both of them.I am also taking lots of trace minerals for KPU treatment.
Posts: 174 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
For me I also had a HORRIBLE reaction using Detoxamin.
Remember, metals are utilized in creation of biofilms, so when I started Detoxamin my understanding from my LLMD is that by moving metals we burst biofilms and released some nasty nasty infections into my system. I became encephalopathic again; it was horrible.
That was around thanksgiving. I had to go back on antibiotics etc. Now, in conjunction with KPU treatment I am able to tolerate pediatric Detoxamin every 4 nights (have been doing it about 4 months so far) I'm doing pretty well
-------------------- "We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us" - e.m. forster Posts: 921 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
I felt better the days after I used it than the other times of the week. It improved my well-being significantly.
I used it along with Zeolite every third night and daily NAC and ALA.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
The Buoloke might be responsible for the feeling bad too. I had three straight days of herx with that stuff. And you added Detoxamin to it, wow!
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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lymeladyinNY
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10235
posted
Hi all - 3 nights ago I was so sick I thought I would die. My husband nearly called the ambulance because I was screaming for a 1/2 hour. He gave me valium and 2 advil and I calmed down enough to go into a deep sleep.
I awoke 11 hours later and still felt really ill. I stayed in bed all day yesterday and I didn't take anything at all - no antibiotics, supplements, detox - nothing.
This morning, I woke up still feeling awful and after a bm I noticed a very strong metallic smell. Honest to God, after the bm I felt much, much better!
I've been doing pretty well today. I am amazed. I've decided to continue with detoxamin/boluoke but only every other week. My LLMD has always encouraged me to tweak my protocols according to what I feel I need. I'm going to try this.
I feel hopeful that I will get to "the other side" of this thing with the help of the detoxamin/boluoke and feel much, much better in the end.
I've had a hard lesson in not pushing too much, too fast. Wow, I didn't know I was so full of metal.
Thanks for listening and for your voices of experience. - Julie
-------------------- I want to be free Posts: 1170 | From Endicott, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I used Detoxamin per my LD last year, with no noticeable effects. I felt so bad any way, how could I tell.
Last month he told me to start again with Zeolite HP. Kind of sent me for a loop, I went downhill. He said last week he thought I was stirring up the toxins too much, and started me on Questran(which I haven't started yet). Been too busy for such a strict regimen with eating, meds, and supps.
I'm only going to do 1 a day. I was reading on the net, and Shoemaker says 4x a day. Is he an extremist of sort, is 1 a day enough?
Posts: 847 | From upstateNY | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Detailing a better protocol, because some times we are just toooooo toxic to start with EDTA directly.
A better two pronged attack my start with supplementing with MSM, taurine and other sulphur based supplements along with OSR. It would start by removing some of the garbage from the cells first and to do that for a month first. Also including many binders. In other words find ways to reduce the toxic load before starting.
Use supplements and herbals to increase elimination organ health during this month.
I believe it is now best to do OSR, which would stimulate glutathione production in the body before using EDTA. Binders are great for carrying out the trash, but increasing glutathione increases the capacity of picking up the trash to be removed. So do this the next month while still supplementing with MSM.
Then try the EDTA with lots of binders. After the first day, wait 3 to 7 days depending on how you feel. If there is a strong reaction wait another month on OSR.
Just trying to find a gentler way to detoxify. I know I had lots of problems when I did EDTA sometime ago.
I viewed EDTA as a negative! But my understanding of OSR (although I've never used it) and MSM didn't exist back then. Nor was there enough information of the EDTA side effects.
So why MSM and OSR, I think you can dose them to more gently detoxify while promoting the bodies ability to eliminate toxins. In other words, prepare the battle field before starting the battle.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymeladyinNY
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10235
posted
Thanks for the information, Bob! I've never known quite where to go with detox. I've always known I need it, but I easily get confused.
-------------------- I want to be free Posts: 1170 | From Endicott, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
If you are trying to detox heavy metals and chemicals, make certain that you are not allergic to them, i.e. the body is unble to regulate. To find out, you can do the Allergie Immun test.
If you are allergic, i.e. the body cannot regulate, you are only moving the toxins around in the body, because the immun system is unable to recognize them and deal with it. Law of Osmosis. That is the reason for the accumulatiion of these toxic metals in the first place.
When using Detoxamin which is more effective for lead than mercury, you will feel it, because most lead is stored in the long bones. Where however it goes from there, I do not know. All people from LN who have taken the AI test (Allergie Immun) are allergic to mercury, lead, nickle and copper. So draw your conclusions from that.
The body is a master in recirculating and redistributing toxins - Law of Osmosis. Eliminating it from the body is another story.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
A lot has been written on this site of the benefits of homeopathy. And there is a lot written about the homeopathy being nothing more then snake oil.
I found the following article on nickel allergies and using homeopathy to resolve it. A doctor used a pharmaceutical:
quote:Dermatologist, Dr. Steven A. Smith, MD, FACP, was searching for a better way to treat patients with nickel jewelry allergy and thus formulated Psorizide(R) Forte. "Psorizide(R) Forte is a prescription, biochemical homeopathic tablet that is safe and completely steroid free," Dr. Smith said, a fellow of the American College of Physicians. "Most cases of common jewelry allergy can now be cured by a novel pill containing the actual offending agent -- Nickel. A unique program of oral nickel desensitization (Psorizide(R) Forte) prevents this angry, itchy, red skin reaction that affects 15-20% of women."
It is interesting when pharmaceuticals can declare a homeopathic solution as ok when there is profit. It is also interesting that medical science deems it ok. It is also interesting when homeopathics aren't pharmaceuticals they attack alternative practioners who employ it.
I think the advantage of using this tablet is the tablet educates the body's immune system. In the article they call it desensitizing the body to nickel so it is an acceptable substance. Instead of desensitizing, educating the immune system seems to be a more appropriate view, based on the views of the creator of homeopathy -Hahnemann.
AI and forms of homeopathy can help remove allergic reactions. It is great to find an article from traditional medicine stating they successfully used homeopathy in their practice. And who can argue with the results, its on the skin and you can see it. Hard to fabricate the results!
I hope this is disturbing to those who totally hold conventional only viewpoints of medicine and further broadens your minds. I also think it's great when conventional medicine starts to embrace energetic medicine.
BTW : AI may or may not be homeopathy, but it is energy medicine used to instruct the body how better to behave. I've never used it and can't state myself one way or another about it's effectiveness. But I am a great believer in energy medicine which has helped me recover my health.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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