posted
I found a tick embedded on my 4 y.o. today- just 2 weeks after I was diagnosed with lyme and began treatment. UGH!
My LLND prescribed amoxicillin for her and had me send the tick off for testing. It wasn't clear to me how long she was recommending that my daughter take the abx. I think she said 3 weeks.
How long should she be on them to adequately prevent lyme?
Posts: 98 | From NH | Registered: Mar 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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- Sorry to hear of this upsetting ordeal. Ugh.
Embedded - so the mouth parts did come out with the tick, correct? If not, any pieces left need to be removed.
Is your LL ND ILADS-educated? If so, you can breathe easier. Perhaps, she will reassess in three weeks. If infected, clearly three weeks is not long enough. And, if any question, I'd sure want to be sure infection was addressed longer than that, even if a 50-50 chance.
Glad you sent the tick off for testing, although that is not always a perfect test, so be aware of that.
Your daughter should also be assessed for possible coinfections.
Did your ND also suggest liver support for your child? Probiotics? Warm Epson salts baths? -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Keebler- no, the mouth parts did not come out with the tick. It's still in her. I'll speak to my doctor about getting it out. She is ILADS trained, or says that she follows those guidelines. If the tick comes back negative is it safe to stop the antibiotics? My dr. said that we would do that if it was negative.
The tick was very tiny. It hadn't gotten any blood yet, so I'm assuming that it hadn't been there very long. Does that make a difference in terms of transmitting disease?
I'm already concerned about having passed lyme onto her while pregnant. And, this isn't her first tick bite. Last september she had one which was never treated (before I knew anything about lyme). She just seems pretty healthy, so I wonder if I should even do the Igenex test on her, because I'm not sure if she should be treated if she's not symptomatic.
And then my other stress is how the hell am I going to prevent her from ever getting another tick bite? I feel like I need to lock my kids in a bubble! It's not like she was in the woods, she was just playing in the backyard. This tick situation just seems out of control.
Posts: 98 | From NH | Registered: Mar 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- First, I sure hope the tick was not infected. But you can't take that chance.
I would go to URGENT CARE now and get those tick parts removed. Be sure they use high magnification and bright light and get anything that might be questionable.
Q: "The tick was very tiny. It hadn't gotten any blood yet, so I'm assuming that it hadn't been there very long. Does that make a difference in terms of transmitting disease?"
I don't think so. Borrelia can be in the mouth and, upon bite, be transmitted. The IDSA does not think so but I have read that, all it can take is the bite. That is also why it's vital to get the mouth parts out. Traces of infection can be left there and as long as they are there can be pockets of infection.
Q: " If the tick comes back negative is it safe to stop the antibiotics?"
No. Tick tests are not very accurate if negative. If positive, you know it's there, but if they don't find it that does not mean much.
Also, there are many infections that ticks transmit, not just lyme. That must be considered.
I can understand not wanting to treat if asymptomatic regarding possible gestational lyme but from a recent bite, that is an entirely different matter. Entirely different. She has at least a 50-50 chance of infection. Waiting for symptoms can mean so much more devastation as then it would be deeply ensconced and that creates many serious complications.
PREVENTION is key. Now is the window of opportunity.
I sure hope others come along. I have more to add but am just too tired. Maybe a mist of essential oils would help with tick prevention. Treat your yard, too. Nature is vital to living. She must be in nature but there also must be some ways to treat the yard, etc.
Good luck. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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t9im
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
All the childrens hosipitals go by the tick needing to be biting for 48 hours (at least the two my daughter went to). A Yale reserach study had the bb being transmitted in 15 minutes.
Not sure on the protocol for a 4 year old. I know Doxy is not good for Babs and Bart.
-------------------- Tim Posts: 1111 | From Glastonbury, CT | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
thank you for the responses. It sort of seems like there is no point in even testing the tick- and it was $75 to do so.
At least she is on antibiotics (and ledum) at the moment. Although it's causing her stomach upset.
I'll have to talk with my dr. further about being on it 6-8 weeks and having it removed.
Posts: 98 | From NH | Registered: Mar 2010
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gwb
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posted
Is she taking food with her abx? How about probiotics, is she taking them? That's VERY important! Make sure they are taken first thing in the morning two hours or so prior to abx and during the evening before bed time. No abx past 6pm if at all possible.
With proper treatment from a LLMD she should recover just fine.
posted
Gary- yes she's definitely on probiotics. We've been doing those for years routinely.
Posts: 98 | From NH | Registered: Mar 2010
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
I know if i find one on myself and not sure how long it was in me I wouldnt go less than 3 months treatment with numerouse abx's Like for adults all the cycilines doxy,tetra,minocin, etc for child maybe biaxin xl and cyst buster like flagyl or tindamax in combo with other meds and in a couple more weeks I would test for babesia also.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
I just found out that the tick tested negative for lyme. This was done by Clongen lab.
Is it necessary to continue the antibiotics? My doctor doesn't think so. I don't know what to believe. I really would like to stop them. My daughter is complaining of stomach aches all the time.
Posts: 98 | From NH | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
Kateaton, I know it's difficult to see your child with stomach aches but please try to stick with the antibiotics.
I have watched my daughters suffer immeasurably with chronic lyme. The risks are too great.
Wishing you and your daughter the best!
Posts: 677 | From Virginia | Registered: Sep 2002
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Remember to Smile
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by t9im: A Yale reserach study had the bb being transmitted in 15 minutes.
Tim, I don't doubt that for a second. Could you please begin a new thread with the reference, abstract, or further info on that Yale study when you have the opportunity? Thanks! Smile
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- First, for stomach, a gruel of slippery elm bark or DGL may help. Your ND should offer help there, too.
Sadly, tick tests are VERY unreliable. I would never bet my life on one. They also don't test for all the tick-borne infections. Your child needs to be assessed for more than just lyme but even "just lyme" can be devastating if not treated early for long enough.
There are ways to help symptoms along the way but, first:
* This explains WHY you need an ILADS LLMD or ILADS LL ND (naturopathic doctor) to guide your treatment protocol.
CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR" - 2007
" . . .To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . ."
". . . If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided. . . ."
. . . .
- Full article at link above.
===================
Other tick-borne infections also need to be considered. They require different treatment. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- You posted earlier: " . . . the mouth parts did not come out with the tick. . . ."
Did that get removed by a doctor using high magnification? If not, that still must be done. Every trace of the tick's mouth needs to be removed.
You say you see LL ND. Now, there are a few who are fabulous. However, be sure your LL ND is ILADS-educated. Only a few are.
I know this is very hard but your efforts now mean so much to your child's life. Good luck.
It's very important to have this book as a reference tool for self-care and support measures. It answers so many questions in detail that is impossible here.
Chronic Lyme Disease and Co-infections: Clinical Overview (R. Snow) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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onbam
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posted
I'd always heard 3 months past the point at which all symptoms resolve. Maybe that's from the Burrascano guidelines...
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posted
quote:Originally posted by kateaton: I found a tick embedded on my 4 y.o. today- just 2 weeks after I was diagnosed with lyme
Dear Kateaton, It is imperative that your entire household be tested for Lyme Bb AND evaluated for all co-infections by an experienced ILADS-member LLMD asap.
The Lyme Disease Complex is spread to infect humans thru a myriad of means, not just tick bites.
The causal agents are spread thru saliva, blood, semen, tears, and urine. Host animals that serve as infectious reservoirs include cats, dogs, cows, horses, deer, rabbits, raccoons, mice, and porpoises.
"Lyme" is an infectious disease complex. The vectors include numerous spp of ticks plus mosquitoes, fleas, horseflies, deer flies, and mites.
I believe your daughter is "at risk" for a serious battle with the Lyme Disease Complex if she is under-treated now.
quote:Originally posted by kateaton: I just found out that the tick tested negative for lyme. This was done by Clongen lab.
Is it necessary to continue the antibiotics? My doctor doesn't think so. I don't know what to believe. I really would like to stop them. My daughter is complaining of stomach aches all the time.
Clongen labs does tests within 3 days time??? Doesn't sound possible.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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onbam
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posted
If no symptoms--3 months, I believe.
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TF
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posted
From Burrascano Guidelines, page 19:
TICK BITES - Embedded Deer Tick With No Signs or Symptoms of Lyme (see appendix):
Decide to treat based on the type of tick, whether it came from an endemic area, how it was removed, and length of attachment (anecdotally, as little as four hours of attachment can transmit pathogens). The risk of transmission is greater if the tick is engorged, or of it was removed improperly allowing the tick's contents to spill into the bite wound. High-risk bites are treated as follows (remember the possibility of co-infection!):
1) Adults: Oral therapy for 28 days.
2) Pregnancy: Amoxicillin 1000 mg q6h for 6 weeks. Test for Babesia, Bartonella and Ehrlichia.
Alternative: Cefuroxime axetil 1000 mg q12h for 6 weeks.
3) Young Children: Oral therapy for 28 day
So, Burrascano is saying 28 days of treatment and it is your doctor's decision whether or not to treat based on type of tick, endemic area, how removed, and length of attachment.
There is less risk of transmission if tick is not engorged, as stated above.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I'd go with 3 months, too. When you say your child is on probiotics, how much? 60 billion, 3x a day? And, always before bed?
That is what we did. My kids were on western abx for 4 - 6 months, now continue on herbal.
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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