posted
Hi I have read about the treatment protocol for KPU which helps the body detox. Has anyone started this and found it helpful?
How long does it take and what symptoms does it help?
Thanks emma
Posts: 13 | From N.Ireland | Registered: Oct 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- You may find what you are looking for at the Porphyria thread - in terms of links to researchers' works - but there are many past threads with discussion that you can find here: -------
PORPHYRIA Thread -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Hoosiers51
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posted
Not sure, I did the test and I came back normal on it, so I didn't do the protocol. I wasn't even close to being out of range.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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sixgoofykids
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I really feel like this was as important to my remission as my Bionic 880 treatment was. I detoxed heavily when I first started it, then I felt like I caught every bug that was going around as my immune system kicked in and started fighting off various viruses.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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SForsgren
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posted
It has been very significant for me. WBC now much higher, immune system more competent. I do think KPU was important and for many people it is quite a step forward. Takes about 12 months though to fully remineralize.
I had the same experience as six mentions above where it definitely was tough.
BTW, the protocol really isn't for detox. It's ultimately to support the immune system and reverse deficiencies that cause numerous problems in the various enzyme systems in the body. Detox is a side effect, but often a welcomed one.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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posted
I should add. Get the test from Vitamin Diagnostics. Make sure they do BOTH KPU and HPL (same price I believe). Doing KPU alone may miss many with the condition. Then, do NOT follow their instructions but instead follow those from Dr. K which increases the validity of the test result.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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seekhelp
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posted
Are you better now Scott? Where are you on your health journey?
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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-------------------- Increasingly ill over past 10 yrs; treating since October '08. Posts: 180 | From Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Oct 2008
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Seek, if you noticed Scott brought up an excellent point. His WBC numbers went up as a result of doing the KPU. This shows a direct physiological change based on a protocol.
I've noticed the following on doing protocols. Numbers do change when we keep track of them.
So instead of the subjective ( gee I feel better). A blood test change where WBC numbers improvement are hard to argue with.
So, it might be prudent for some of us here to subject ourselves to joint observable testing, for those willing. I would be, but my WBC numbers are excellent and hard to improve upon not to mention my overall health.
The deal is this, get a KPU and blood test. Also take your temperature a few times a day with an accurate thermometer (ensure it is an accurate one). Do the KPU for a couple of months and again get the tests done and report back any changes in the result. By this I mean, to get another KPU and blood test and note any changes.
If we could get 20 folks to do this, wouldn't the results be of interest?
I know this testing isn't perfect, but I'll bet we'll see a certain marked trend.
I do believe these protocols have a physiological affect on our bodies. We just need to be more organized about how we get the information. The information as a community will help us to be more knowledgeable.
We could also have another group do this for transfer factors and so forth.
I suspect this kind of testing is the next evolutionary step for our little community.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
For those of you that were tested and/or did the protocol, did you do it yourself, or under your LD?
I looked over Dr. K's protocol and I see some contain sulpha, which I'm allergic to. Now I don't know if I would effectively be able to do it. Anyone have any insight to that?
Posts: 847 | From upstateNY | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Thanks for the input...I'll look into getting a test sent from the UK.
Did any of you find it helped a lot with Babs symptoms?
Thanks emma
Posts: 13 | From N.Ireland | Registered: Oct 2009
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Hoosiers51
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Thanks for posting that info, Scott.
Yes, I did the Vitamin Diagnostics test, got tested for both KPU and HPU, and followed Dr. K's instructions, and both values were well within range.
I was surprised when I saw the results, because I assumed it would be off since I'm still so sick. But I was very meticulous with not letting any light hit the urine, used plenty of "C" to preserve the sample, so I am pretty sure the results are accurate.
The reason I'm posting here is just to let some people know that not all chronic Lymies test positive for it in the testing.
Maybe that could relieve any fears that the test would show false positives, and also just to let people know that we don't all have it.
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CD57
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I like Bob's idea. I for one would be up for being part of the group that is going through treatment. In fact this is a good time to start....I am supposed to start in the next few weeks.
Anyone else? We could start a thread and try to be orderly about it.
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Hoosiers51
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Did you guys all test positive for it in the testing? Or if you were in range, how close to the low end were you? Just curious.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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CD57
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Hey Hoosier....I was waayyyy elevated, I think my KPU was 34 and the HPL or HPU or whatver was 1200 or something.....and then Dr K mentioned in his video that most specimens will have declined by the time they get to the lab so you should probably double your score....! good grief.
but he also says that not EVERYONE has it. You are the second person I have heard of who was nowhere near the top. So that is about inline with 80% have it and 20% don't. Congrats!
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Hoosiers51
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Oh okay, for some reason I thought low scores were bad, not high. Must be remembering incorrectly.
Hmmmm, if I were to double my score, I might be out of range. But still, the fact that I was in range, while someone like you tested sooo high, makes me think it isn't a problem for me.
Thanks!
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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lymie_in_md
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The problem CD57 is getting people to sign on. It was one of the most disappointing aspects of lyme disease experience for me. Is the lack of joint participation in any venture.
90% of the people with any chronic illness tend not to take responsibility for their own health. They want doctors to solve their problems and no one else including themselves. And for once, I would love to be attacked on this point and be proven sooooo wrong.
So, I put out the idea of doing a test with the forum. My guess it will never happen! We won't evolve!!! And we won't learn in an organized manner from each other, ever!!!
Please attack me on both points, I implore you to prove me wrong!!!
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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CD57
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I'm not going to attack you on any front. I suspect that you are right.
After 5 yrs of being sick and 3 yrs in treatment, I realize that expecting my doc/s to have all the answers is to my detriment. As I have become more educated in a variety of ways I've made choices that they, or my other "Lyme friends" do not necessarily support. To that I say thanks, gonna do it anyway. I'm the captain of this ship.
Anyway, I created a KPU thread on another forum that I participate in. You are welcome over there if you want to join us. www.lymefriends.ning.com.Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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seekhelp
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I can't argue with you Lymie_in_MD. You're correct.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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SForsgren
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I don't think the wellness journey ever ends, but specific to Lyme related issues, I am probably about 90% recovered. I still have a few muscle twitches, some visual damage that may not ever resolve, and a few areas of muscle soreness (may not be related only to Lyme). I continue to treat with an herbal and supplement protocol.
After having been on KPU for 13-14 months, I do feel it has been very useful. It provides a good foundation for those that have the condition. My initial KPU testing was in the normal range though energetically, I still tested for it and at that time HPL testing was not available yet.
It is correct that not everyone has KPU, but the majority likely do and I would love to see everyone with chronic Lyme at least get the test done to see if this may be helpful. It is relatively inexpensive and could hold some important clues.
I've spoken to another practitioner recently that has been doing the testing and has been surprised with how common the condition is. Also, another Lyme pt just within the last week that also commented to me that since starting KPU about 6 months ago, WBC counts have improved notably.
KPU isn't the entire puzzle, but it is certainly an important piece for many in my opinion.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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canefan17
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Isn't the KPU essentially just taking a mineral supplement?
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SForsgren
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posted
Zinc, B6, Omega-6, Manganese, and other nutrients depleted by those that have the condition. There are a couple of products on the market targeted at providing several of these depleted substances or a practitioner can create a protocol around single nutrients that may be deficient.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Lymeorsomething
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SF, how much zinc did you introduce initially? I know a large dose may cause sides.
I've started the protocol recently.
Dr. K's info was very useful (SF thanks for posting).
I also found the following write-up. The MD says it can be triggered by a stressor such as mono...
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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seekhelp
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Does anyone know if Dr H in NY is on top of the KPU issue?
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SForsgren
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I did very high dose under the guidance of my doctor and I personally would not recommend this approach. It was an uncomfortable 6+ months and I think slow and steady wins the race here. I am using the Core now from BioPure and I think the Core and Depyrrol are both potentially good options.
I'm not sure if Dr H is using the KPU protocol or not. Sorry.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Brussels
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posted
I'm on and off on the KPU supplements, but I do about one or two pills a week. I started as slow, but even with that it was hard. So I decided to do a sort of AI protocol (but not the same) and my body started to detox on its own for about 6 months.
Then I returned to the KPU (now). But as Scott says, it is not easy. One Depyrrol pill will definitively create detox symptoms, but they are MUCH easier now. Even though, I only take that little amount.
My daughter is on the same path, but taking Depyrrol for children. Our maximum dose now is about 2 capsules a week!
I'm not ready to go on a crazy strong detox protocol because we are having normal lives, without lyme, and I am not ready for that kind of crash for no urgent reason. We go slow. Even though, I feel my liver and kidneys can get stressed.
I can't say how much it helps because I was almost lyme free when I started and so was my daughter. That was more than a year ago. Now we are still doing that in hopes that our immune system will be strong enough not fall again so sick with lyme, in case of relapse or re-infection.
As we are still detoxing after so long on these supplements.
I wonder if we will be ever free from KPU supplements one day or if we have to come back to it from times to times.
I wonder what Scott thinks about that (if he'll ever be free from the KPU supplements or will rather go back to them as maintenance from time to time)?
Thanks, Selma
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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lightparfait
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posted
Thanks for posting this topic..as I was curious about how this is going for others as well.
I originally tested very positive for KPU as well as my daughter. We both did the individual supplements for a few months, then switched over to the "core" product. She immediately felt the positive effect using the "core", as far as acne clearing and better mental/emotional feelings.
I never had a reaction at all or any positive nor ill feelings on the protocol. My body took to it well.
We have now both stopped, as we were starting into the Allergie Immune therapy, and did not want to take anything that may change our outcome. Didn't want anything to be counterproductive...as this is still experimental. Knowing that maybe we would have to resume the KPU treatment afterward.
In the past 6 months, we have not tested to energetically need those minerals/supplements. And feel like I am starting to detox on my own.
I am now done allergie Immune and feel fantastic and my lymph fluid build up problems are gone and I feel this therapy has helped my body start to regulate and normalize in many areas. I am actually able to sweat normally when before I did not sweat. (just as an example)
Metals and chemicals are found flowing out of my body naturally with no "push" from cilantro or other products for mobilization. Previously, I had to always "push" everything.
I will eventually re-take the urine KPU test to see what my numbers are now. Just because I'm curious...but I hesitate just because I am spending too much money lately on curiosisty.
I think when I feel a negative change, then I will get the test.
But it seems that the AI therapy helped me...and possibly my daughter detox better naturally. This is to be evaluated over time before I make that a factual statement. But this is what we are experiencing today.
Also, FYI: I recently attended a DR. K. seminar. During the seminar, I offered my "CORE" capsules to the female German energy tester to use to test for KPU on a patient. The Core Capsules tested poorly as supplements. She said she does not use these and said there was a problem with them. Most likely fillers. Said they were not good...this alarmed me! This was from my second order of "CORE". May be why I did not test to use it!
I contacted Biopure, and found that the manufacturer/supplier to Biopure changed the specs...without telling Biopure...(they thought they could get away with this change, not understanding energy medicine). They thanked me and have heard this from others before me.
Anyway, the new "CORE" that is packaged the same...is the better product and is now "pure".
This is a reminder to always test your products when you receive them...if you do energy testing.
So those who have possibly had the bad batch...with the fillers...may not have had great success using the Core at that time. Just thought I would let you know.
It is interesting that we can trust our sources..but there are no regulators for supplements. Nice that energy medicine can pick this up!
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009
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djf2005
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posted
No, Dr H does not tx for KPU.
You can treat yourself for whatever you want though, which is what I do.
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
SForsgren
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posted
KPU can be genetic, induced by infections, toxins, or trauma. So my thought is that many will need treatment for life. I do not view KPU treatment as short term or pulsed. I think the condition may be a major factor in why we got sick to begin with. I have not stopped KPU treatment and now use the Core for maintenance and plan to indefinitely. If anything, I think I need a bit more KPU support as some of the white spots in the nails started to return when I went from the high-dose protocol to the Core. The high-dose protocol I don't recommend unless working with a very good doctor. It shakes things up too much in my opinion.
KPU is not just about supporting detox. It is about providing the immune system enough power to handle infection load as well as many other things that deficiencies of zinc, B6, Omega 6, manganese, etc. lead to.
I don't advocate treating KPU without a practitioner that knows what they are doing - though the lower doses in the Core and Depyrrol may make this less problematic than the higher dose protocols.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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djf2005
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I agree, unless you really know what you are doing, it's not the best idea to treat yourself; although once educated treating the conditions that come w/ Lyme & co is not all that difficult.
Educating one's self properly is the most difficult part.
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
lymie_in_md
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posted
KPU is a necessity, because certain nutrients are below what they should be. I'm guessing the nutrients were exhausted by an overtaxed immune system in a constant battle with parasite, bacteria and viruses. And even if the urine test is normal, so what, the immune system needs many of these nutrients either mineral or vitamin because of that battle.
I wonder if the immune system shuts down due to a lack of nutritional resources?
Name all the practioners who'll treat for KPU. How many are there in Tennessee, Kentucky, Maine. We have to be somewhat realistic. Most people are not going to get to qualified practioners. What is worse, not using the KPU protocol or using it without a practioner? Especially in a world where chronic disease is avoided by traditional medicine.
Just trying to get real here...
And one last point: down with practioners who are not more on the ball for these types of treatment. If any practioner just looked at the number of folks who've had positive experiences with KPU, maybe they should do study across the board for all chronic illness. Of course that will take 20 years.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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djf2005
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If we got down on the Mds who are not on the up w/ the latest most effective ways of treating these conditions (especially in an alternative fashion) then we would not have very many left.
The DKs of this world and the few others like him are very few and far between.
It is up to us, the patient population, to unite and inform our Drs of new treatment options and the like.
Lyme has always been and will continue to be "here are your abx" for decades to come....unless we change that.
It's so much more complex than that as we all know, but Drs who have large successful practices have no incentive to learn these complexities unless they need the clients. Just how business works, and unfortunately in the US medicine IS business, nothing more. (for 95% of Drs at least)
Dr H for example not being on the KPU train is somewhat frustrating, and makes one wonder. On the other hand, he has helped more patients than most of the Lyme drs on here combined, so getting too down on them/him would be unwarranted.
I personally have spoken w/ JF and Dr H regarding KPU and they just have not yet implemented it. They want to see published data if at all possible before taking the plunge on too much stuff of this sort. Also even if a therapy is not dangerous but could prove to give a patient trouble will be something a large practice will hesitate to initiate because of the possible ensuing liability case/s.
Just my 2 cents. Yes, they all should be learning and practicing what we learn BEFORE we get to the info, BUT, that's not how it works. (for now)
Best
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
Brussels
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posted
Scott, thanks for your insight. Interesting that the white spots got back on lower doses... I hope they will go.
I never got white spots, but I definitively have some good results with the KPU supplements.
I agree concerning higher doses of the KPU, when done alone, it can be dangerous. Even in low doses, for me, detox reactions can be hard as they continue (in my case) for many days after ingesting one single pill of Depyrrol!!!
I also suppose that as we get more toxic detoxing (temporarily), some infections may thrive at least short term?
But as Bob said, when you got no option, why not trying? But in low doses, like half a capsule in a week or so...
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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SForsgren
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People have to decide what they are comfortable with in terms of their treatment direction. Given my very strong response to KPU treatment, I think people need to be cautious and ready for the need to really amp up the detox protocol. That generally means a practitioner needs to help guide things.
I do think the lower dose support with "The Core" is less likely to cause any major problems, but reactions can still occur. It at least makes sense to review the components of the product with a practitioner and ensure they have no concerns before adding it in.
Some people are better able to self-manage their care than others, but it comes with risks that have to be considered and in some cases are not worth taking.
I'm just urging caution.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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CD57
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posted
This is interesting. I use The Core from Biopure along with Yes Oil and microsilica. I wonder if doing individual supplements might not be more beneficial?
Could others who have used the supplements individually please list them here?
FWIW my doctor does treat KPU. When I asked him outright if this makes a difference he said "YES". I don't know if that means he has seen major improvement of others or what.
Also FWIW for the second time in 5 yrs I have gotten sick....I think it is newly developed allergies to something out there in the air. First I thought it was a cold. Either way, I'm taking it as a good sign that my immune system is "waking up"......whatever form that takes. I have always felt something was up with my immune system, and have the stupid test numbers to prove it.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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sparkle7
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Bob - I think it's a good idea to try to organize groups of people to share data & results. It takes organization, though. Someone has to create a system to manage the input & data & do it in a way that people can participate in.
This stuff is a bit complicated. If someone organized this & put the info on a website or mailed a kit to people - it would make it easier to participate in it.
I also agree with you about finding providers. I live in SC & natropathic medicine is actually illegal in this state. People who practice natropathic medicine can be fined & given jail time. Yes, it would be nice to live in a place that is more progressive. I used to live near NYC & there weren't many progressive practitioners there, either.
I don't feel that we should be the ones educating doctors. I thought that's why we pay them - to be up on all the latest things that may benefit our ailments. I don't expect them to be healing Gods but for what they are paid - they should be familiar with the latest treatment options. Otherwise, why do we pay them so much? Might as well self treat...
I don't really have the key symptoms of KPU but I am interested. I may see about working in a way to do a version of the protocol on a low level. I have to give it some thought.
Thanks for all the insight on this!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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CD57
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posted
Any new thoughts on this? How are people doing?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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CD57
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posted
Another question -- is KPU the same thing as porphyria?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
I have been on Kpu 2 yrs now,& it has helped.It was extremely hard for me for a yr & then things started shifting here and there. I was on separate supps at first and now on Core. This plus being on A-Babs and A-Bart is really helping. Joyce
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I would never have gotten through this without my Md,Micro silica and other binders.The body starts dumping heavy metals and toxins.The immune system kicks in. Not fun. Glad I hung in doing it. I know peeps that quit.
[ 12-05-2010, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Healing in Santa Cruz ]
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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Rumigirl
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Can you do it while on fairly intensive abx and IVIG? Or would that be too difficult? I"m guessing that it would be too difficult.
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
I've been on it for a year and a half now. I feel it was a big part of full remission for me. I was still battling babs and bart when I started.
Rumi, I think it would depend on how you're doing. I usually did quite well if I had been on the same abx for a while. KPU is a mineral deficiency. Replenishing those minerals/vitamins does cause you to detox as being deficient prevents detox. It's not a "treatment" so much as taking nutrients your body needs. Maybe start more slowly during intense treatment??
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Cass A
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posted
Dear Friends,
I first tested myself for zinc deficiency in 2004 using the oral zinc supplement you can get at a health food store. If you can taste it, and it's horrible, your zinc level is fine. If there's no taste at all, your zinc level is OTB.
Well, it tasted like water to me!!!!
I started taking zinc supplements at that time.
So, when the KPU protocol came out, it made total sense to me, and I started on it right away, with 100-200 mg zinc a day.
I have been on it now since May of 2009.
I recently tested myself again for zinc deficiency using the oral liquid, and it still tastes like water to me--maybe a slight taste to it now.
I have also been doing the Allergie-Immun drops since April 2009.
None of my major symptoms have resolved in this time, although some minor things have improved.
Best,
Cass A
Bull's eye rash in 1998. Positive IGeniX blood test (finally) in 2005. Also tested positive for Babesia, 2007. Various treatments since that time, including nearly a year on Mepron/Zith
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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CD57
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Good info. So it sounds like the zinc deficiencies can take a long time to improve.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: Does anyone know if Dr H in NY is on top of the KPU issue?
No, he is not. I just talked with him about it and passed on the article for him to read.
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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canefan17
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posted
I noticed The Core only has 40mg Zinc
Dr K in his lecture talked about pushing with 400mg+ zinc in some cases.
So I'm assuming he doesn't use The Core for anything more than maintenance?
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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sixgoofykids
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The 400 mg might refer to the type of zinc .......
My supplement, Depyrrol, has 210 mg, but it's only 30 mg elemental zinc.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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canefan17
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Oh I see
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
I take 2 Core 2X a day and down the line added copper,tiny dose.Plus Evening primrose oil. All energy tested for me though. Lots of info on www.betterhealtheguy.comPosts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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canefan17
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Member # 22149
posted
Healing,
What binders were you on while doing KPU?
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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