posted
My LLMD doesnt "do" detox products, the nurse told me if I wanted to do it on my own I could. But she didnt offer any suggestions.
I havent done anything up until now, I really didnt have bad herx until now... I am at my wits end and I have to try and get this under control. I bought a bottle of Bentonite clay but I havent used it cause I don't know what to do with
Do detox products really help control Herx? Do I take it every day? Is there a specific way to take it, ie: before meds, after meds?
I have to travel for my job tomorrow and right now I can't even get to the end of my driveway to get the mail.
Posts: 75 | From NE Ohio | Registered: Mar 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
The Herxheimer reaction (also known as Jarisch-Herxheimer or Herx) occurs when large quantities of toxins are released into the body as bacteria (typically Spirochetal bacteria) die, due to antibiotic treatment or rapid detoxification.
Typically the death of these bacteria and the associated release of endotoxins occurs faster than the body can remove the toxins via the natural detoxification process performed by the kidneys and liver.
It is manifested by fever, chills, headache, myalgia (muscle pain), and exacerbation of skin lesions.
Duration in syphilis is normally only a few hours but can be much longer, up to months or years, for other diseases, especially Lyme Disease. The intensity of the reaction reflects the intensity of inflammation present.
The Herxheimer reaction has shown an increase in inflammatory cytokines during the period of exacerbation, including tumor necrosis factor alpha, interleukin-6 and interleukin-8.[1][2]
The reaction is also seen in other diseases, such as borreliosis (Lyme disease[3][4] and tick-borne relapsing fever[5]), bartonellosis, brucellosis, typhoid fever, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, and trichinellosis, Q fever, and cat scratch disease.[6][7]
Especially note herxheimer abtracts with Leptospirosis, another spirochetal infection. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thanks, I do take supplements (including Magnesium)and I take milk thistle. I might try the warm Epson bath...
Unfortunately not traveling is not an option, I just have to deal with it if I want to get paid.
I just wondered if I should be doing something else to try and get this junk out of my system.
Posts: 75 | From NE Ohio | Registered: Mar 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Oops, I was editing while you were posting. Glad to hear you take MT and M. I'm reposting my previous note with some additional links that got cut off when I tried to edit.
Rest. Ginger capsules might help, too (not too late in the day, though).
Good luck. Take care. - For your personal reference file: =====================================
Oh, sorry to hear that you've been clobbered.
"Detox" products can be far different from LIVER SUPPORT. Basically, since lyme is toxic it creates pain and problems for the body.
The liver, kidneys and skin are the major organs that remove waste from our bodies. But they can only handle so much at time. When overloaded, the "herx" hits.
When lyme is then treated, it gives of more toxins and further clobbers the whole system.
Some things help support the liver (like milk thistle and magnesium). Other things help with circulation to get toxins moving out (warm bath, gentle exercise). Other things known as binders, yes, capture toxins in the colon so they don't get recirculated (Bentonite clay, etc.)
Things that help reduce the cytokine reaction are also good. Milk Thistle has some support for that but there are also other things that can be of help.
All this is explained in detail in the liver support links in the Tinnitus thread -- and more specifically by the authors' works below. I hope you can order that book today. It's very valuable to self-care.
With "detox" it's all about consistency. Just don't push it as the liver (or kidneys) can only work so fast and so hard. A warm bath helps sweat out toxins through the skin but don't get too hot and don't stay too long or it will wear you out. Heat can make things much worse but get it warm enough to enjoy and relax.
Just be steady but gentle. You can google and find details on how to use your Bentonite clay. But it will not be the same as having milk thistle in your system. They work totally differently and complement each other.
After reading basics on the clay though a Google search, search past threads here at LymeNet for the timing of the clay so as not to interfere with the absorption of your Rx:
If you can barely make it to your mailbox, it may be best that you stay off the road for your safety and that of others.
There is nothing magic that can turn this around in a day. But you might take a WARM epson salts bath. Twenty minutes. Not hot, never hot, but a warm bath can do wonders. Good luck.
Milk Thistle is your number one liver support. Magnesium, too.
-----------
3/4 of the way down are lots of LIVER SUPPORT LINKS:
Insights Into Lyme Disease Treatment: 13 Lyme-Literate Health Care Practitioners Share Their Healing Strategies
Connie Strasheim (Author), Maureen Mcshane M.D. (Foreword), Thirteen Lyme-Literate Doctors (Contributor) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- About the Bentonite clay. Since you have to travel tomorrow, you might want to wait on that. It can affect bowels and it's best to figure all that out while you are at home.
Generally, you'd take that at opposite times from your Rx, starting with a low dose and lots of water all throughout the day. If if you don't start the clay, when you travel, I hope you can still drink lots of water and eat well. Good luck. Hope you feel better. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I think detox is probably 1/2 to 1/3 of dealing with these illnesses we have. The other pieces are killing pathogens & regenerating or healing the damage. I can't fathom why any doctor would not know about this...
Anyway- you have to get the dead & diseased stuff out of your body somehow. It's a long story & there's a big, long thread here with suggestions when you have time to read it.
You have to take binders away from any meds, supplements, herbs or it will interfere with the effectiveness of the things you are taking.
They basically absorb all the toxic materials out of your body. Clay is good. I like a product called Intestinal Cleanse #2 by Dr. Schulze. It has a bunch of different binders all together in one product. Charcoal caps are also very good & you can buy them at many drugstores or vitamin stores.
Be sure to drink plenty of water. This is the nutshell version. Read the thread on detox to get a better understanding.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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My dr. doesnt "do" detox and he doesnt "do" co-infections.. I really believe I have bart too-- my heels/feet hurt so bad I can hardly walk and I have non-stop headaches. Maybe it's just the lyme, but from everything I read it sounds like Bart.
He is supposed to be a respected LLMD.......
Posts: 75 | From NE Ohio | Registered: Mar 2010
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Foot pain can be caused by a sluggish lymphatic system. Lymphatic massages are good for that, but do it on a day where you can rest the rest of the day (and drink lots of water). Also rebounding helps.
Red root tincture is good for thinning out the lymph. Buhner recommends it in Healing Lyme.
FIR saunas are good for detox. There are portable ones available, you don't have to invest in a large unit.
Epsom salt baths, coffee enemas. Both good.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I would find another doctor... I suspected babesia many years ago & my "doctor" didn't think it was a possibility... He was wrong & I wasted 3 years on non-treatment.
Detox is really important... So are the co-infections & alot of other stuff that your doctor is probably neglecting!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I have my 3rd appt next week, if he doesnt address the possiblity of co-infection I might go somewhere else.. The problem is, the pickens are slim in this area. I already drive to another state for this dr.
Posts: 75 | From NE Ohio | Registered: Mar 2010
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Believe me - I understand. I'm in South Carolina... Natropathic medicine is actually illegal in this state. Doctors can get a $500 fine & jail time.
I've been ill a long time & I research everything. I don't really have a doctor. I have one guy that I use in CT if I need a prescription. I call him maybe once or twice a year.
Good doctors are extremely rare. I used to live in NJ near NYC - even there it's hard to find someone knowledgeable in a way I would consider progressive.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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massman
Unregistered
posted
What is your general area in NE Ohio ?
I lived + worked in Ohio from '91 through '08 as a chiro dealing with all types of conditions. If interested I can refer you to MDs, Naturopathic docs etc. in different areas of the state. I can PM you if you would be interested.
Sounds like you have an only kill the lyme doc and in many peoples experience here it can be more complicated than that !
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I am from Youngstown, Ohio. Do you see an LLMD in PA? If so I might know who you see. And if it's Dr S then I used to go to him. PM if you want to talk.
I now travel to Wisconsin to see an LLMD. He doesn't do detox either. But he does everything else. I found this post while searching for help with detox. LOL
-------------------- My lyme disease blog: http://lymetimes3.blogspot.com/ One BIG Lyme family! I tested CDC + 10/08 My mom Igenex + 11/08 & My brother Igenex + 4/09, My 2 boys some + & IND bands, clinical diagnosis 3/09 (youngest has Aspergers too) Posts: 470 | From Painesville, Ohio | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
massman...I am looking for a natural doc in my area...do you know of any lyme friendly ones? thanks!
-------------------- My lyme disease blog: http://lymetimes3.blogspot.com/ One BIG Lyme family! I tested CDC + 10/08 My mom Igenex + 11/08 & My brother Igenex + 4/09, My 2 boys some + & IND bands, clinical diagnosis 3/09 (youngest has Aspergers too) Posts: 470 | From Painesville, Ohio | Registered: Mar 2009
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