posted
Hello all! I have been fighting Lyme, Babs, and Bart for about 3 years now.
I also developed Trigeminal Neuralgia after being infected with Lyme.
With all the frowning I've been doing over the last 3 years, I have developed some pretty serious lines in my forehead.
Has anyone here ever had any side effects from having Botox injected into their forehead?
Of course, the MD that will be doing my injections says that Botox is only contraindicated in persons with myasthenia gravis.
I asked my LLMD (he is well known in North Texas), and he honestly didn't seem to know!!
Just wondering if any Lymies on this site have had any personal experiences with side effects from Botox.
It sticks around in the forehead for so long that I would hate for it to complicate my Lyme.
I would deeply appreciate any feedback!
Thanks so much!
Heather
Posts: 33 | From Texas | Registered: May 2010
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Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
Not a good idea Botox is a neurotoxin did the MD tell you that? I think we have enough toxins already
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
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massman
Unregistered
posted
May stress the liver + kidneys as they try to detox the drug.
Have you tried to improve the health of your detox organs yet ? That may decrease the stress on the nerve.
And there are some specific supplements for nerve support and nerve health.
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lightparfait
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22022
posted
Not Good...it is a neuro-toxin, and it adds to a lyme patients already toxic body load. It has been the tipping point for some people...the point where they began to get very ill...as it overloaded the body. Health is more important than beauty...but it is hard for most people in the age of beauty products...to not partake of them. We as a nation seem to trust what is on our shelves.
I always thought I would do botox and a face lift when I aged...now that I have aged and could use it...I now know I will not do this...as now I am educated and see the effects of toxins. I have also been detoxing in stages over the past 2 years...so I don't want to disrupt my already balanced body....it took so much effort and dont want to hurt myslrf again by setting myself up for another autoimmune reaction.
We are being duped as Americans...as toxins are in every over the counter cosmetic, in our air and water...adding to our body burden...
We need to educate ourselves...and only trust what our bodies are telling us...not our politicians and their appointees of our health and safety who do not understand this yet. They are years behind the truth.
Just saw an ad on CNN for Sanje Guptka's new documentary called "toxic America" coming out soon on CNN. HOpefully he will cover some of this as people seem to believe the media. We will see what he actually knows, and is apporved to report.
I have finished the Allergie Immune therapy...where my DNA was tested for toxins and allergins. I was loaded with environmental toxins...chemicals...heavy metals...and things passed genetically. Now I am cleared...until I develope more form newer chemicals in the environment. But it has helped me clear my body and now I am feeling fantasatic...and can eat all things...and am not sensitive to chemicals and smells like before, as well as all sensitivites to plants, foods and animals are gone.
I encourage all to work on your own toxic body burden in the way you feel you can handle. But please really research before adding more known toxins...especially for vanity.
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Why would you take a chance like that? It's important for us to feel good on the inside. Why do care so much about the outside? People get wrinkles, so what? Are you on camera a lot or something?
You couldn't PAY me enough to inject more poison into my body. I really hope you don't go down this road.
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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cactus
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Please don't do this to yourself. Injecting a neurotoxin into an already stressed body = bad idea.
I don't know your age, but I am in my late thirties, and this complex of diseases has basically taken all of my thirties.
I have lines that weren't there before (pain lines), gray hairs popping out (thanks, Mepron), and my skin is not quite the same (less resilient). My body shape is different from going from a very active person to someone who was housebound.
But I notice that when we are at gatherings, and the inevitable topic of aging comes up, with others whining about hitting the big 4-0... I just smile and say, "I'm all about my forties!" Because I will be healthier, less toxic - and happier. Active again.
If you feel you *must* consider some type of cosmetic procedure - please opt for something that does not inject a questionable substance into your body, one that will be there for years.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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cactus
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7347
posted
Do a search here for Botox - many threads should come up.
You can read about some Lymies who have tried it, and some who considered it (don't know whether they ended up doing it or not).
After reading those threads just now - I'm further convinced it's not a good idea for someone with Lyme and co's. But you have to do what you feel is best.
I didn't realized Botox contained botulism! And that it's possible to develop botulism symptoms after an injection, eek. With Lyme etc complicating things - not sure it's a good risk.
Some of the threads that came up listed other alternatives though, so you may be able to find more, less toxic, leads to explore for removing frown lines.
Good luck!
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I'd prefer a series of massages, including neck and face muscles. Relax those wrinkles away and hopefully, very soon, there will be plenty of reasons to add some real laugh lines.
Massage nutrients in to your face with Jojoba oil, etc. and lots of TLC. Antioxidants, too, can help our skin, from the inside out.
Shine from the inside out. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- It is the view of the authors below that lyme's toxicity is a close match with that of -- Botulism. -----------
BIOCHEMISTRY OF LYME DISEASE: BORRELIA BURGDORFERI SPIROCHETE / CYST
by Prof. Robert W. Bradford and Henry W. Allen
Excerpt:
. . . A discovery of great importance relating to a toxin produced by the causative agent of Lyme disease, Borrelia burgdorferi, has been linked to a similar toxin produced by the organism Clostridium botulinum (botulism). . . .
Botulism (Latin, botulus, "sausage") also known as "Botulinus Intoxication," is a rare but serious paralytic illness caused by botulin toxin. . . .
. . . Paradoxically, antibiotics (especially aminoglycosides or clindamycin) may cause dramatic acceleration of paralysis [in the presence of botulism] as the affected bacteria release toxin. . . .
- Full article at link above
===================
About the infection, itself, not the cosmetic derivative. However, the later can carry the same risks in some cases.
Long-Term Outcomes of 217 Botulism Cases in the Republic of Georgia
. . . Conclusions. Several years after acute botulism, patients reported significant health, functional, and psychosocial limitations that are likely to be consequences of the illness.
================
Now, after all that, I have read of Botox having some wonderful benefits for those with Cerebral Palsy. That's a different matter than for cosmetic purposes, though it would still take some consideration. -
[ 05-30-2010, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
please do not go there. i was considering a tummy tuck or something and i decided definitely not.
the surgery, plus drugs, recovery, and stress it would cause. no thanks. i'll exercise and diet.
have you considered something like that retinol makeup? i'd do a cream or lotion first.
please don't consider any cosmetic procedure. it's just not worth the risk.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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lightparfait
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22022
posted
Also, scars disrupt your natural electrical system...especially any that go across your midline, like tummy tuck or cessarian..
Some cannot be avoided...but to do this intentinally causing your body to expereince disruption. Dr. K has scars treated wit procaine injections...called neural therapy...to help people begin healing. many see dramatic positive effects from neural therapy I have heard. Scars are also tatoos, piercings, or any surgury. The deeper the worse....and ART testing can identify if any partricular scar is causing your body to block healing.
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009
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cactus
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Heather - this was your first post. Did we scare you away?
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I didn't know any of that about scars lightparfait. I'm in trouble--I've had my share of injuries and non-elective surgery. Any reading you can direst us to?
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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lightparfait
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22022
posted
Not trying to alarm anyone with the scar info...but it is worth investigating.
Not each scar causes disruption...each must be tested to see if it is causing a problem.
Also included are tonselectomy and wisdom tooth removal...as these are common scars that untreated.
posted
Thank you all very much for taking the time to respond!
If anything has the chance of interfering with my Lyme tx, I am definitely not going to do it. I have just had such an awful 3 years that I thought I might do domething to make myself feel better.
I lost my job, marriage, and pretty much my life as I knew it due to this disease, and especially from trigeminal neuralgia. Just hoping I could do a little something for myself.
Darn, Lyme ruins everything!
Posts: 33 | From Texas | Registered: May 2010
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I have been following Lymenet since my diagnosis in 2007. I'm just more of a "browser" than a "poster."
Posts: 33 | From Texas | Registered: May 2010
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cactus
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7347
posted
Oh good - glad we didn't!
I have a terrible time with trigeminal neuralgia, too. It is horrific!
I hope you find some relief.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Cactus, Have you found any relief from your trigeminal neuralgia?
I've tried neurontin, tegretol, baclofen, and lyrica. None have helped. This is on top of using oral hydromorphone and oxymorphone, which did not touch my nerve pain.
I just had a trigeminal nerve block and radiofrequency ablation last week, and that didn't reduce my pain either.
Honestly, I used to think that Lyme Disease was the most horrible illness in the world....until I developed TN. It is absolute torture.
Posts: 33 | From Texas | Registered: May 2010
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cactus
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
TN is truly horrific.
I do think mine was caused by Lyme and co's, and it has seemed to improve with treatment.
But I still have issues.
I have many, many drug allergies (all morphine, codeine derivatives), so my choices are limited - but for now we are using a combo of Axert, Valium and Advil - it helps to a degree.
Neurontin did nothing, nor did Lyrica. The other 2 you listed - I don't recall, but they sound familiar so it could be that we tried them and moved on.
Butalbital has managed to take the edge off a few times, but for now I'm finding that the 3 prong approach listed above is my safest bet.
Do a search here - I think there have been more posts on it, and there could be some ideas that you haven't explored.
Hang in there.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
lightparfait, thanks for posting the links on neural therapy.
hhoskins, sorry to hear your life has been unraveling in big ways. I have peripheral neuropathy so I can relate to your trigeminal neuralgia as well as the unraveling life.
Maybe there's something you can do for yourself, as a pick me up, that isn't dangerous? I think we lymenetters get very worried about people when they talk about doing something very detrimental to their health, what's left of it! So many of us have accidentally done things that've made us sicker, we don't want anyone to do something like that on purpose.
Does surgery work for trigeminal neuralgia? I hope you find relief Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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I hate to disagree with many of the people who have replied to your post. But I get Botox injections every 6 months, or so, to get rid of the "nasty" wrinkles that developed around my eyes and forehead while I was really sick from Lyme. I can honestly say that there has been no negative impact to my health from Botox. In fact, my improved appearance lifted my spirits significantly and I actually feel better.
Good Luck
Posts: 45 | From Medford, NJ | Registered: Mar 2007
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Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
"I can honestly say that there has been no negative impact to my health from Botox."
How do you truly know?
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I would like to thank everyone once again, who took the time to give me their input.
I decided to go with a product called Juvederm, which is a wrinkle filler. The substance is largely hyaluronic acid, a substance normally found in the skin, muscles, and tendons of mammals.
Since it is a substance that is naturally occurring in the body, it doesn't have the risks of Botox, although it is quite a bit more expensive.
My LLMD and neurologist both gave me the go-ahead, and I had my naso-labial folds and glabellar lines filled today. I'm having microdermabrasion next week, as well.
I feel great! I look better, I look younger, and thus I have felt better today than I have in months.
I know it may sound shallow, but I have been through absolute Hell for the past three years. Fighting Lyme, Babs, Bart and Trigeminal Neuralgia has not only affected my insides but also gave me deep pain lines in my face, not to mention the hair loss.
So I chose the facial filler that my LLMD said was safe, and I am so very happy with the results.
I just wanted to do something to give myself a bit of self-satisfaction, and I'm glad I did!
Posts: 33 | From Texas | Registered: May 2010
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posted
I'm glad for you hh. We all need a little something with this no frills lifestyle lyme forces us into.
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Good for you rmruss...we all need to do what we think best for ourselves. If this made you feel better and more full of life then it was worth it. We all need to remember that A: we all react differently to all things in life whether it's drugs or breathing air! B: We all don't have degree's in the medical field to really know the aspects on how any of this reacts with anything we take or are going through. We can speculate, but let's not attack those that say things differ than what you think... thanks )
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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